Bragging about our expensive mirrorless/DSLR vs a point and shoot

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Lightpath48
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No beach mode?
In reply to mistermejia, 6 months ago

I suspect you twiddled your way into some trouble from the looks of the EXIFs in your darker samples. Honestly, there's a time for that kind of experimentation (when no one is requiring a quick outcome from you and your camera) and a time for just having fun and getting good, predictable results from an auto or scene mode. Most current cameras can handle back lighting with built-in dynamic range expansion in auto or scene modes. Doesn't your XE-1 have a beach mode in the scene modes? It's hard to believe Fujifilm wouldn't have engineered some way for simplicity at the beach, when fun is the main factor.

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Les Lammers
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Re: No beach mode?
In reply to Lightpath48, 6 months ago

They have and the scene modes are in their waterproof P&S's.

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Les Lammers
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Re: Bragging about our expensive mirrorless/DSLR vs a point and shoot
In reply to mistermejia, 6 months ago

mistermejia wrote:

djezraj wrote:

mistermejia wrote:

Jit L wrote:

Hi mistermejia, which metering mode did you use? I had similar issues in the past with my X-E1 and I found adjusting the metering mode helps plus the AF box as well.

Multi, i guess what the nikon would call it matrix. I tried all three different metering settings. For that situation spot gave me the best to boost the subject in front, but i would have to sacrifice the beautiful background because it would have blown the highlights as always.

What some people here don't understand is that i DID tried shooting that scene in different ways, in manual, A, S, I tried all dynamic ranges and ISO, and yes, that first photo was shot in full AUTO. Like i said, i CAN expose the subject with the camera, i am not stupid, but i would have to sacrifice the background. That's why i re-shot that portrait in RAW to fix it later, since i did not have my SB600 with me. And the pop up flash of the XE1 i find it very weak for those situations indeed.

It is very funny to me when someone jumps right away to insult you without knowing anything about you or not knowing what else you tried already. The usual comment: "I'm sorry but my advice is for you to learn the camera, you shot it wrong, the camera was in AUTO, you needed a ND filter bla bla bla"...

Personally I think there are situations where P&S works better than the Fuji and I use my Canon S100 or iPhone 5 for those. But when I really want to bring out those colors, sharpness, beautiful bokeh from the old manual lenses I turn to Fuji. Probably not the answer you were looking for, just my personal view. Good luck!

I agree. some point and shoot do some things better. I think that better performance or functions of the point and shoot should also be included in the more expensive bodies as well. Isn't that what we are paying for after all, to take easier and faster good looking photos?

I don't have a problem in shooting raw and fixing later, but i do have lots of family in different parts of the world, and i wanted to post THAT photo in facebook right there at that moment, not three days later

Hi Mistermejia. Looking at your posts and history I see a familiar pattern in my own development. It was very often that my Dslr would either produce underexposed subjects or blown out backgrounds. This in stark contrast to some Point and shoots and especially my iPhone using the HDR function which works very well.

So two things are true 1. The iPhone as well as many P&S cameras have incredible jpeg processing, for example Sony's DRO does get high praise. 2. larger sensor cameras such as DSLR and mirror less systems that are geared towards the "pro" or enthusiast market can get equal results but in some cases more work.

I would add that any camera with a leaf shutter does have an advantage and if you discover this I am not sure this is the sole reason for your example.

So If I were to take a guess at what happened at the beach my best guess says that the Sonny has a very good auto mode and auto DRO because it assumes the user has less knowledge or less ambition to decide the best settings, so Sony does this for them,

You may have been better off with auto everything with the Fuji, In the Q menu try these settings DR either auto or 200 (400 may look to washed out) aperture auto and ISO auto. You can also set the Hi tone to -2 to reduce contrast in the hi lights and of course Low tone -2 to bring up the dark contrast. I prefer Pro Neg std for skin tones and hi contrasty backlit scenes but Astia is also nice.

I did tried everything in auto, except AUTO FLASH, i believe i set it to Force Flash. I'll try auto next time, then again by that time i will know to take the SB600 instead

The tone i did have it set to i believe 0 or -1. I'll try that next time just for fun but i don't think it would make a big difference.

At this point you may want to save these preferences as a custom setting.

When looking at the screen make sure the camera is letting you preview exposure so you can see the blown out background live. The histogram will also help with this. You can then either use the Exp compensation dial or point the relative centre of the frame to the sky and lock the exposure with the AE lock button (this takes a bit of "button click" practice)

If you are really feeling daring.Again with everything on auto use the menu to put the flash in auto and pop it up. For me in this mode my Xe-2 never misses, however if i override the auto modes the flash will revert to default. You can also dial the flash down in the main menu.

So if you have read this and are thinking (too much work... ) Then perhaps the Sony route all fit your style better for now? No shame in a system thats auto mode suits you better.

Functionality maybe, but color output, i am not sure.

The X series above the M1 and A1 perhaps are too manual for some. Fuji allows so much user intervention perhaps this is too much for others. For me it is perfect but I admit it takes some getting used to.

Well, as long as there is something in the menu that works I'm completely fine with user intervention and i don't have a problem with that. But if the problem is not the user but the camera, i might have a problem there. Honestly, since i would always read about Fuji's fantastic SOOC jpegs I "thought" these cameras were kind of "optimized" to do mostly everything in jpeg, and that includes exposure and flash, kind of like a point and shoot

It is natural to flip flop between worlds 1. you want to learn 2. you want it to just know what you want. Each brand has its advantages disadvantages.

Correct.

Despite the excellent DRO the Sony systems save for the A7 require to much menu diving for me but I can see how a RX100 or a A6000 might suit you better personally .

I have never looked at this cameras before. I'll check them out one of this days. It would be very very hard for me at this point if i left Fuji. I really really like the color output. We'll see.

Before making any rash decisions perhaps try the all auto mode with Kit lens and let the camera do what it does, and analyze what settings it chooses. Also tr the film and shadow settings on the same scene and see how close you can get.

I'll try that, but then again what's the point if the photo comes out very dull with no color

I hope this helps

It sure does Roger, thank you very much. Very good constructive input.

Roger

if the problem is not the user but the camera, i might have a problem there. Honestly, since i would always read about Fuji's fantastic SOOC jpegs I "thought" these cameras were kind of "optimized" to do mostly everything in jpeg, and that includes exposure and flash, kind of like a point and shoot

You simply need to lean more about exposure in difficult situations. No camera can do that for you.

Google 'understanding photographic exposure' and you will find a lot of good info.

Also, there will be some situations where RAW and a lot of PP will be necessary. Just the way it is.

Luminous Landscape has a forum sub section for beginners. The are patient and non-condescending accomplished photographers that will help you there.

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Adrian Van
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Re: Here is the photo.
In reply to mistermejia, 6 months ago

For portraits, if your camera has center spot metering, I would go with that (I use this outdoors for portraits most of the time, full matrix for scenes only). Sometimes with full scene metering or matrix metering, the foreground is underexposed and the flash if variable power does not fire strong enough (for foreground subjects) as it thinks background has enough light. With center spot metering on people, camera reads the peoples exposure level, the flash may power better for the exposure in auto (if using auto/program) would work better. If using A, S, or manual adjust and take a second photo.

Sorry, do not have this camera, so if I am wrong on these functions, please keep that in mind. The 2 Fujis I have from past is Fuji S2Pro and S5Pro. But principles of flash and metering remain the same.

Also if you are zooming in quite a bit from a distance, the small flash on top may have little effect. Walk in closer for stronger and better fill flash effect, or add stronger external flash.

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Davidgilmour
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Re: Here is the photo.
In reply to Acrill, 6 months ago

Acrill wrote:

You need to use a filter then. Like I said, you are using the camera incorrectly.

one could also say that fuji delivers incomplete cameras

or they should come with a warning: beware, can't make decent beach photos if not well equiped...

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photoreddi
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Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to jkjond, 6 months ago

jkjond wrote:

photoreddi wrote:

Acrill wrote:

photoreddi wrote:

Acrill wrote:

You need to use a filter then. Like I said, you are using the camera incorrectly.

Wake up Acrill. I didn't use the camera, the OP did. You are also wrong to suggest that a filter should be used. It wouldn't help at all even if it's an ND filter. If you think about it you might understand why.

Sorry, a bit sleepy here.

A filter would allow the OP to use a more normal aperture. It is only one solution to the problem.

Yes, it would. The problem is that an ND filter would also reduce whatever light the flash emits by the same amount. So if you used a 3 stop ND filter (allowing f/16 to change to f/5.6, a 3 stop aperture increase), you would have to increase the flash's power by the same 3 stop's worth (8 times the output power) because the light that the flash emits is also reduced the same amount by the ND filter.

there is something amiss here, and misleading.

If the foreground is underexposed by 3 stops you have three options to balance the exposure:

+3 stops of flash to balance the shot

That won't happen with a weak flash that's probably already used at maximum output power.

.

+3 stops by opening the aperture, no flash and blow the background.

Unacceptable if the goal is to include a properly exposed backlit foreground as well as the background.

.

+3 stops of aperture, -3 stops from filter, + 3 stops of flash

That still won't happen. Unless a more powerful external flash is used, of course.

.

Yes the filter is reducing the amount of flash reaching the sensor, but the increased aperture is cancelling that effect. Although the flash is illuminating the background it has a diminishing effect on the distance. You could juggle with the aperture, shutter speed, iso and flash output to get the exact balance required if the background were closer - so long as there was some separation.

Exactly, but you seem to be looking at it backwards. Instead of saying "the filter is reducing the amount of flash reaching the sensor, but the increased aperture is cancelling that effect."

Try saying "the increased aperture is increasing the amount of flash reaching the sensor, but the ND filter is cancelling that effect".

So when the filter is used the background exposure remains the same which is presumably a good thing. But the flash's effect on the subject remains the same and that's not good because it was originally underexposed. The OP's complaint was that the his X-E1 wasn't able to duplicate what the cheap Sony P&S was able to produce, which was :

That same photo with the beach behind everybody, and the sun and water and white clouds was NOT over exposed, but most importantly, my friends were PERFECTLY exposed in the front and i just could not believe it. My wife looked at my XE1 photo and she asked me why my photo was way way darker and why we could barely see everybody in that photo.

I don't see you proposing anything that would keep the background properly exposed while increasing the foreground exposure unless another flash is added. You might be able to reduce the internal flash's output by 3 stops but you won't be able to increase it by 3 stops. The point remains that adding an ND filter won't solve the problem. The ND filter cancels (balances) the increased aperture for both the foreground and the background. The shutter speed can't be made any faster because of the 1/250th max. sync speed. If it's made slower it won't change the effect of the flash, but it will change increase the exposure of the background and the amount of ambient light that contributed to the foreground exposure, but the OP does not want the background overexposed. As someone else mentioned, changing the positional relation of the camera to the subject to the background could help, and shooting closer to the subject would help because the flash's intensity on the subject would be greater.

.

.--
Wedding and fine art photographer based in the Lake District, UK

Oh? Solutions available with your gear in your studio or during a wedding weren't available to the OP. He didn't even want to use his more powerful SB600 external flash (which would have helped) because as he wrote :

i don't carry my SB600 where ever i go, it is a little on the heavy side.

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darngooddesign
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Re: No beach mode?
In reply to Les Lammers, 6 months ago

Les Lammers wrote:

They have and the scene modes are in their waterproof P&S's.

Also on the X-A1 and X-M1.

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mr moonlight
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Re: Bragging about our expensive mirrorless/DSLR vs a point and shoot
In reply to a l b e r t, 6 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

Basically, the OP is up against the hw limitation of his camera that lacks HSS flash.

Even if you have a Nikon/Canon DSLR, the result would be the same without a flash that supports HSS.

The best bet is probably a 3-stop ND filter, with +2EV on the exposure compensation dial (assuming he is using matrix metering) and put the camera in DR400. The ND filter is needed to enable the camera to use DR400, as ISO is now 800. Let the camera decide on the aperture and shutter speed.

HSS sync would have helped in getting the OP's first image to work since it would have allowed the camera to sync with the flash. If I remember correctly, the sync speed on the XE1 is 1/180, so at 1/250 his camera never caught the flash even though it did fire.

That being said, his settings were not maxed out, so he could have still nailed the shot without HSS. His settings are 1/250, ISO200, f18, and the image was a little underexposed, so there's some wiggle room there. If he brought his shutter speed down to 1/180, his camera would have caught the flash and his image would have been closer to correct exposure. That may have solved his problem right there. If his flash was still not bright enough, taking a step or two closer to his subjects would likely take care it. If he wanted to keep the same exposure, I think his lens goes to f22.

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photoreddi
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Re: Point-and-shoot flash sync speed 1/750 sec.
In reply to TacticDesigns, 6 months ago

TacticDesigns wrote:

photoreddi wrote:

BillyInya wrote:

Establish a level playing field ....

Put the X-E1 in "A" then watch the magic unfold. The chances are if the point and shoot cam is correctly determining the right exposure then the X-E1 will also.

Nope. The X-E1 was limited by its flash sync speed, so the relatively slow shutter speed (1/250th) resulted in f/18 for the aperture to keep the background decently exposed. The built-in flash wasn't powerful enough to overcome the tiny aperture. Cheap P&S cameras that have electronic shutters can use much faster shutter speeds such as 1/2000th, 1/4000th, etc. allowing much wider apertures that more fully utilize what the tiny flashes are able to pump out, meager as it is.

On dSLR cameras . . . to get around this, you can get an external flash with a high-speed sync flash mode.

But for vacations . . . if you want to keep size down, this is one advantage that fixed lens point-and-shoot cameras may have. One of the reasons I like point-and-shoot cameras on vacation.

Here's a goofy shot I did shooting my daughter playing with chalk with the sun directly behind her with a point-and-shoot camera. A tough situation. But I just forced flash on with the point-and-shoot and let the camera work out all the details.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tacticdesigns/7471967890/

I know . . . It's not a great shot. Just testing out the Fuji XP50 when I first got it. But it shows the high-speed flash sync possibility. There is still some blue in the sky . . .

If you look at the EXIF data . . . the camera is flash syncing at 1/750 sec and not even breaking a sweat. LOL.

Good example. For a test shot, I like it!  As far as I'm aware, most P&S cameras can shoot with even faster shutter speeds if necessary.

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DocetLector
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to photoreddi, 6 months ago

I really don`t understand why you are talking about flashes now, the OP certainly did not use any flash, his first photo is uderexposed all over but properly saved in PP. If someone doesn`t  know how to use his camera in backlight situations, a PS will deliver better results with flash mode on.

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photoreddi
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to DocetLector, 6 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I really don`t understand why you are talking about flashes now, the OP certainly did not use any flash, his first photo is uderexposed all over but properly saved in PP. If someone doesn`t know how to use his camera in backlight situations, a PS will deliver better results with flash mode on.

I'll explain.

The OP wrote "I find the pop up flash useless most of the time." but he did not say that the flash was not used.

The camera chose 1/250th sec. for the shutter speed which happens the be the max. sync speed.

Various people gave him suggestions regarding his use of the flash and he didn't correct them by saying "I didn't use the flash".

The first photo (with the overly dark subjects) says "Flash .... Flash fired. Compulsory flash mode" in its EXIF data.

Do you now understand?

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a l b e r t
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Re: Bragging about our expensive mirrorless/DSLR vs a point and shoot
In reply to mr moonlight, 6 months ago

mr moonlight wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

Basically, the OP is up against the hw limitation of his camera that lacks HSS flash.

Even if you have a Nikon/Canon DSLR, the result would be the same without a flash that supports HSS.

The best bet is probably a 3-stop ND filter, with +2EV on the exposure compensation dial (assuming he is using matrix metering) and put the camera in DR400. The ND filter is needed to enable the camera to use DR400, as ISO is now 800. Let the camera decide on the aperture and shutter speed.

HSS sync would have helped in getting the OP's first image to work since it would have allowed the camera to sync with the flash. If I remember correctly, the sync speed on the XE1 is 1/180, so at 1/250 his camera never caught the flash even though it did fire.

That being said, his settings were not maxed out, so he could have still nailed the shot without HSS. His settings are 1/250, ISO200, f18, and the image was a little underexposed, so there's some wiggle room there. If he brought his shutter speed down to 1/180, his camera would have caught the flash and his image would have been closer to correct exposure. That may have solved his problem right there. If his flash was still not bright enough, taking a step or two closer to his subjects would likely take care it. If he wanted to keep the same exposure, I think his lens goes to f22.

Actually, he cannot nail the pic without HSS.  I have been into his situation before.  Basically, the built-in flash output is weak compared to the sun, and the aperture at 1/180 or 1/250 is already at f18 or similar.  At that aperture, very little flash illumination gets into the sensor, unless you're very close to the subject.  This of course fails to capture the background scenery.

X-E1 can most of the time sync with 1/200 without bottom shadow.  The officially support x-sync speed is 1/180 and you can't set that on X-E1.  I have used 1/250 and the flash will fire, but the lower 1/3 of the pic is dark, but the upper part is well exposed (assuming you're not against the sun).  So it is not a mater of using 1/180 for the built-in flash in this case, as the flash is simply over powered by the sun.

What I think is that he should maintain a correct exposure for his subject and manipulate the camera into DR400 so that the background exposure can be salvaged.  But in order to get DR400, he needs ISO 800.  And since he is already at f18, he would need very high shutter speed to bring the aperture value down at such high ISO value.

I think this topic could be an interesting challenge for someone to come up with a decent solution with a combination of ND filter, exposure comp, with or without onboard flash.

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mr moonlight
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Re: Bragging about our expensive mirrorless/DSLR vs a point and shoot
In reply to a l b e r t, 6 months ago

a l b e r t wrote:

mr moonlight wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

Basically, the OP is up against the hw limitation of his camera that lacks HSS flash.

Even if you have a Nikon/Canon DSLR, the result would be the same without a flash that supports HSS.

The best bet is probably a 3-stop ND filter, with +2EV on the exposure compensation dial (assuming he is using matrix metering) and put the camera in DR400. The ND filter is needed to enable the camera to use DR400, as ISO is now 800. Let the camera decide on the aperture and shutter speed.

HSS sync would have helped in getting the OP's first image to work since it would have allowed the camera to sync with the flash. If I remember correctly, the sync speed on the XE1 is 1/180, so at 1/250 his camera never caught the flash even though it did fire.

That being said, his settings were not maxed out, so he could have still nailed the shot without HSS. His settings are 1/250, ISO200, f18, and the image was a little underexposed, so there's some wiggle room there. If he brought his shutter speed down to 1/180, his camera would have caught the flash and his image would have been closer to correct exposure. That may have solved his problem right there. If his flash was still not bright enough, taking a step or two closer to his subjects would likely take care it. If he wanted to keep the same exposure, I think his lens goes to f22.

Actually, he cannot nail the pic without HSS. I have been into his situation before. Basically, the built-in flash output is weak compared to the sun, and the aperture at 1/180 or 1/250 is already at f18 or similar. At that aperture, very little flash illumination gets into the sensor, unless you're very close to the subject. This of course fails to capture the background scenery.

X-E1 can most of the time sync with 1/200 without bottom shadow. The officially support x-sync speed is 1/180 and you can't set that on X-E1. I have used 1/250 and the flash will fire, but the lower 1/3 of the pic is dark, but the upper part is well exposed (assuming you're not against the sun). So it is not a mater of using 1/180 for the built-in flash in this case, as the flash is simply over powered by the sun.

What I think is that he should maintain a correct exposure for his subject and manipulate the camera into DR400 so that the background exposure can be salvaged. But in order to get DR400, he needs ISO 800. And since he is already at f18, he would need very high shutter speed to bring the aperture value down at such high ISO value.

I think this topic could be an interesting challenge for someone to come up with a decent solution with a combination of ND filter, exposure comp, with or without onboard flash.

I figure by the size of the subjects in his second photo, he was roughly 6'-7' from them and still got a good amount of background scenery. At that distance, the on camera flash would still be able to shed some light on his subjects. Since he had a zoom, he could go a bit wider, step in a little and while his perspective would change, he'd be able to light up his subjects even more while still getting the background scenery.

I'm thinking if he was at 5' at 18mm, with his camera set to ISO200, f14, 1/200 his background would be exposed close enough and his flash would have enough power to give a little fill. It's not an ideal situation, but I think he'd be able to get much better results if he gave the flash a bit of a chance.

Of course HSS is an awesome feature in itself and one of the reasons I bring my X100 every where I go.

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DocetLector
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to photoreddi, 6 months ago

Sorry, my mistake! At 100% I can see the reflections of a flash in eyes and glasses. But I still don`t understand why the whole picture is so much underexposed. I only can assume a faulty camera or wrong settings.

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Joachim Gerstl
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Re: Bragging about our expensive mirrorless/DSLR vs a point and shoot
In reply to mistermejia, 6 months ago

mistermejia wrote:

Well, i know what a point and shoot can and cannot do, but i will admit i had a pretty embarrassing moment this weekend.

I had my XE1, and, well, my friends always compliment the look of the camera, and they think is very expensive. Two things happened to me this pass weekend. First, my friends and I went to the beach. I was adjusting the XE1 the best i could so that i can get my friends well exposed, with the sun behind them on the background and the water and the blue sky with some white clouds. I have been here before, so I knew what i was getting into, so i was shooting RAW. I was trying all sort of things to have the camera properly set up and i also had the pop up flash on. Well, i thought i was getting "good results".

Then, my friend asked me: "oh please take a photo with my camera". She had a cheap $125 dollar point and shoot Sony. I took the photo and when i checked it on the LCD my jaw drops!!

That same photo with the beach behind everybody, and the sun and water and white clouds was NOT over exposed, but most importantly, my friends were PERFECTLY exposed in the front and i just could not believe it. My wife looked at my XE1 photo and she asked me why my photo was way way darker and why we could barely see everybody in that photo. All i said is that i probably did something wrong. She told me: "the other cheap camera takes better photos than your $1K one". I just shook my head.

Then we go out to dinner in a restaurant, and i am trying to lock focus but i can't, it is not completely dark, but the lights are dimmed enough that the camera cannot lock focus on people's face. All i said was: "sorry guys but my camera is not locking focus", all they said was: "what??".

My question is why can't my XE1 take a better photo in the beach scenario, but the cheap $125 Sony point and shoot can? Something doesn't make sense here.

As to the AF lock for indoor shots, well, i already kind of knew that was going to happen

Just right now as i am writing this i am thinking that maybe the XE1 does have a SCENE mode for the beach situation? I don't have the camera with me right now, but i do remember the X10 does have different in-camera scenes. Can you guys verify this from the top of your head? I will check the manual as well and maybe some of those scene modes give me the output i am looking for certain situations.

If it doesn't, then what i'll have to do is take my external flash ALL THE TIME, which is not very comfortable. Either that, or i might just start looking for a newer body. In the end, i don't just want a great looking camera, but one that works better or at least the same as as my friend's point and shoot

I recommend to get a Sony RX100 or similar and shoot in full auto mode. It's clear that you do not want to deal with the technical aspects of photography so why using a camera that is made for more experienced users.

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photoreddi
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to DocetLector, 6 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

Sorry, my mistake! At 100% I can see the reflections of a flash in eyes and glasses. But I still don`t understand why the whole picture is so much underexposed. I only can assume a faulty camera or wrong settings.

No, I think that the camera just ran up against its limits. The camera chose 1/250th sec. for the shutter speed and f/18 for the aperture. It couldn't use a wider aperture because that would have called for a faster shutter speed to maintain the same exposure, and it couldn't use a faster shutter speed because when the flash is used, the max. sync speed prevents the shutter speed from going any faster. That's due the the way Fuji's focal plane shutters work.

Fuji's blade shutters (inside the lenses) in the X100, X100s and the electronic shutters in most compact cameras allow much faster shutter speeds, as high as 1/4000 in some cameras and possibly faster. That lets them use much wider apertures, and then the foreground and background gets the same exposure from the ambient light, but the wider aperture more fully utilized the internal flash's light. If f/5.6 could have been used, the flash could have lit up the subjects the same way a monster flash that's about 20 times as powerful would light up the subjects at f/18, if that much light was actually needed.

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historianx
Senior MemberPosts: 1,232Gear list
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to photoreddi, 6 months ago

photoreddi wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

Sorry, my mistake! At 100% I can see the reflections of a flash in eyes and glasses. But I still don`t understand why the whole picture is so much underexposed. I only can assume a faulty camera or wrong settings.

No, I think that the camera just ran up against its limits. The camera chose 1/250th sec. for the shutter speed and f/18 for the aperture. It couldn't use a wider aperture because that would have called for a faster shutter speed to maintain the same exposure, and it couldn't use a faster shutter speed because when the flash is used, the max. sync speed prevents the shutter speed from going any faster. That's due the the way Fuji's focal plane shutters work.

Fuji's blade shutters (inside the lenses) in the X100, X100s and the electronic shutters in most compact cameras allow much faster shutter speeds, as high as 1/4000 in some cameras and possibly faster. That lets them use much wider apertures, and then the foreground and background gets the same exposure from the ambient light, but the wider aperture more fully utilized the internal flash's light. If f/5.6 could have been used, the flash could have lit up the subjects the same way a monster flash that's about 20 times as powerful would light up the subjects at f/18, if that much light was actually needed.

Yeah Ive used the puny little clip-on Fuji EFX20 on my X100S for overpowering the Sun fashion shots in midday light (usually at 1/1000 sync, iso100, F2 or 2.8) and in this case it's surprisingly powerful.

I also have a Lumix FZ200 bridge cam (mostly for video), and while its high speed electronic shutter will sync to 1/4000 sec it only does when using the onboard flash or Panny/Olympus flashes.  I experimented with it in my studio with an Einstein strobe and a Buff Cybersync transmitter attached, and was limited to 1/125 second max sync speed.  So there are limitations, proprietary ones.

And this thread just goes to show: most problems and issues with Fuji cams on this forum stem from either user error or inexperience.   The higher end X series are NOT good cams for those with little photographic experience.  I have almost 4 decades of photography under my belt, and they still challenge me!

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DocetLector
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to photoreddi, 6 months ago

To me the camera should have used a wider aperture because the whole photo is underexposed. Setting a wider aperture would have had a better effect using the flash. For many years now I spend the whole summer in Greece and have been shooting thousands of pictures on or near the beech with my 10 years old Fuji S3 and most of the time I am just using the in camera flash if DR is not within the limits. At mostly ISO 160 which is not very different to ISO 200 nearly all of my pictures are well exposed. And I am all the time shooting JPEG, so I can only make minor corrections. So I really do not understand why somebody has to buy a Sony PS to get decent results.

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Les Lammers
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to DocetLector, 6 months ago

The metering mode used was probably the root cause.

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photoreddi
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Re: Yes, you were quite Incorrect
In reply to DocetLector, 6 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

To me the camera should have used a wider aperture because the whole photo is underexposed.

It could, if the flash wasn't used.

.

Setting a wider aperture would have had a better effect using the flash. For many years now I spend the whole summer in Greece and have been shooting thousands of pictures on or near the beech with my 10 years old Fuji S3 and most of the time I am just using the in camera flash if DR is not within the limits.

You're talking about an old Fuji S3 P&S camera (I couldn't find one) or the S3 Pro? If it's the S3 Pro, that camera has it even worse than the X-E1 according to this review :

One place where a significant change was made is flash. The S3 Pro is now a D-TTL camera, which means significant restrictions for multiple and wireless flash (no TTL), and a pre-flash that's not cancelable. Flash sync is 1/180.

http://www.bythom.com/fujis3review.htm

.

So since it can't sync at 1/250, the aperture needed for the same exposure would have been smaller than f/18 and I doubt that the guide number for its internal flash is significantly higher than the X-E1's.

.

At mostly ISO 160 which is not very different to ISO 200 nearly all of my pictures are well exposed. And I am all the time shooting JPEG, so I can only make minor corrections. So I really do not understand why somebody has to buy a Sony PS to get decent results.

Because the Sony and most P&S cameras have flashes that can sync (and shoot) at much higher shutter speeds. This is what makes it possible to use the wider apertures that prevent underexposed photos when more light is needed from the flash. The fast shutter speeds don't reduce the flash's effective power, only the smaller apertures do.

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