Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
brownie314
Contributing MemberPosts: 947
Like?
Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
5 months ago

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 11,866Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

It is only a matter of time before we see a production camera with the tech. Rumors are, Sony RX2. Whether that happens in Sep/Oct (Photokina)... may just help us see the potential which may eventually be offered with ILCs as well (especially likes of Sony a7r).

 EinsteinsGhost's gear list:EinsteinsGhost's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-F828 Sony SLT-A55 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony 135mm F2.8 (T4.5) STF Sigma 70mm F2.8 EX DG Macro +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ambercool
Contributing MemberPosts: 703Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

I'm really excited about this too.  Sony has always been at the leading edge of technology.  They release stuff that only a few engineers might love and appreciate, or even pay for before the product fails.  But they will have that one tech that Sony made for about 3 months and is still what the user has always wanted.

If Sony lets Apple present their technology in the way Apple does things, most of Sony's tech would be a hit for the mass market.  I just hope this sensor works out really well and that Sony positions it to sell like hotcakes.  At least someone needs to if it's not Sony.

-- hide signature --

-Viet
http://www.ambercool.com
"Luck comes to those who do"

 ambercool's gear list:ambercool's gear list
Sony Alpha 7 Nikon D70 Canon EOS 5D Fujifilm X-E2 Olympus PEN E-P5 +24 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Old Listener
Regular MemberPosts: 341Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

How about a link to more info?

 Old Listener's gear list:Old Listener's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ50 Nikon D7000 Nikon D5000 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Sigma 150mm F2.8 EX DG Macro HSM +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 4,323Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to Old Listener, 5 months ago

Old Listener wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

How about a link to more info?

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/04/30/sony-rx2-reported-sport-faster-35mm-f1-8-lens-curved-sensor/#.U2Efp63Us1o

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
brownie314
Contributing MemberPosts: 947
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to ambercool, 5 months ago

ambercool wrote:

I'm really excited about this too. Sony has always been at the leading edge of technology. They release stuff that only a few engineers might love and appreciate, or even pay for before the product fails. But they will have that one tech that Sony made for about 3 months and is still what the user has always wanted.

If Sony lets Apple present their technology in the way Apple does things, most of Sony's tech would be a hit for the mass market. I just hope this sensor works out really well and that Sony positions it to sell like hotcakes. At least someone needs to if it's not Sony.

-- hide signature --

-Viet
http://www.ambercool.com
"Luck comes to those who do"

This curved sensor isn't one of those sexy things, like an ipod or something.  It is the geeky, insider tech stuff - but stuff that makes a HUGE difference.  Maybe (now, I am just speculating) this could lead to a FF camera the size of the Ricoh GR.  To me, it would be other-worldy to have a camera the size of the Ricoh GR and have a FF sensor and a 35mm f/2 lens on it.  I don't want to set expectations too high - but this might be possible with this curved sensor technology.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MoreorLess
Senior MemberPosts: 2,929
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

I'd guess the big issue maybe that sensors and lenses need to be matched together to make such a system work, indeed I could potentially even see zooms causing issues. That Sony didn't look to use this sensor with there own FF mirrorless system does tend to suggest there maybe problems.

I spose if sensors really started to come down in price it also made lens design cheaper then it might make sense to create a system like the Ricoh GXR with linked sensor/lens units.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
yardcoyote
Senior MemberPosts: 2,764Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

It wasn't the ipod that was sexy-- it was what it could do and the elegant way it did it. The first one was a nice enough package but not notable in terms of pure design in my book-- but its function was shockingly good at the time.

A truly compact FF camera with a 35, or even better for me a 45mm, fast fixed lens, would be a game changer in terms of function. Turn to Fuji for tips on making it pretty ...

 yardcoyote's gear list:yardcoyote's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Pentax K-30 Pentax K-5 IIs Pentax smc DA 35mm F2.8 Macro Limited Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jcharding
Senior MemberPosts: 2,036Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

Well, if implemented fully (by Sony and whomever Sony sells the sensor too) it could also mean that all legacy lenses become useless.  I'm not sure any increased performance is worth that trade off.

Another way of looking at is another Sony plot to make people buy more Sony stuff due to Sony's unique approach.  Not for the first time.

-- hide signature --
 jcharding's gear list:jcharding's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Fujifilm X-Pro1 Fujifilm X-T1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 12mm 1:2 +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
brownie314
Contributing MemberPosts: 947
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to MoreorLess, 5 months ago

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

I'd guess the big issue maybe that sensors and lenses need to be matched together to make such a system work, indeed I could potentially even see zooms causing issues. That Sony didn't look to use this sensor with there own FF mirrorless system does tend to suggest there maybe problems.

I spose if sensors really started to come down in price it also made lens design cheaper then it might make sense to create a system like the Ricoh GXR with linked sensor/lens units.

Yes, I agree that it would have little benefit for longer lenses - and may cause significant problems.

But I was thinking more along the lines of a compact non-interchangeable lens camera - like the RX1.  With a curved sensor and wide angle lens - this could be a small body but spectacular performer.  We will see.  The rumor going around right now is that the RX2 will have curved sensor and a 35mm f/1.8 lens.  Seems interesting.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MoreorLess
Senior MemberPosts: 2,929
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

brownie314 wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

I'd guess the big issue maybe that sensors and lenses need to be matched together to make such a system work, indeed I could potentially even see zooms causing issues. That Sony didn't look to use this sensor with there own FF mirrorless system does tend to suggest there maybe problems.

I spose if sensors really started to come down in price it also made lens design cheaper then it might make sense to create a system like the Ricoh GXR with linked sensor/lens units.

Yes, I agree that it would have little benefit for longer lenses - and may cause significant problems.

But I was thinking more along the lines of a compact non-interchangeable lens camera - like the RX1. With a curved sensor and wide angle lens - this could be a small body but spectacular performer. We will see. The rumor going around right now is that the RX2 will have curved sensor and a 35mm f/1.8 lens. Seems interesting.

Realistically though the RX1 was already a very good performer here, certainly much better than the FE 35mm 2.8.

Its not mentioned much but if you look at the RX1 len internals you can see a massive rear element...

I'm guessing that having that big chuck of glass near to the sensor allows for correcting light angles much more than can be achieved with interchangeable lenses.

A slightly faster, slightly smaller lens would be a benefit to the RX2 although I think improved AF and a built in viewfinder would be bigger improvements.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
brownie314
Contributing MemberPosts: 947
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to MoreorLess, 5 months ago

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

I'd guess the big issue maybe that sensors and lenses need to be matched together to make such a system work, indeed I could potentially even see zooms causing issues. That Sony didn't look to use this sensor with there own FF mirrorless system does tend to suggest there maybe problems.

I spose if sensors really started to come down in price it also made lens design cheaper then it might make sense to create a system like the Ricoh GXR with linked sensor/lens units.

Yes, I agree that it would have little benefit for longer lenses - and may cause significant problems.

But I was thinking more along the lines of a compact non-interchangeable lens camera - like the RX1. With a curved sensor and wide angle lens - this could be a small body but spectacular performer. We will see. The rumor going around right now is that the RX2 will have curved sensor and a 35mm f/1.8 lens. Seems interesting.

Realistically though the RX1 was already a very good performer here, certainly much better than the FE 35mm 2.8.

Its not mentioned much but if you look at the RX1 len internals you can see a massive rear element...

I'm guessing that having that big chuck of glass near to the sensor allows for correcting light angles much more than can be achieved with interchangeable lenses.

A slightly faster, slightly smaller lens would be a benefit to the RX2 although I think improved AF and a built in viewfinder would be bigger improvements.

Yup - that is what I am talking about - getting rid of that giant piece of corrective glass on the rear.

But yes, the RX1 was already stellar - but maybe with less glass it can be smaller and (fingers crossed) cheaper.

And if they could put the PD sensors on the curved sensor I think they would have a home run at almost any price.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
peevee1
Senior MemberPosts: 6,247Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to MoreorLess, 5 months ago

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

I'd guess the big issue maybe that sensors and lenses need to be matched together to make such a system work, indeed I could potentially even see zooms causing issues. That Sony didn't look to use this sensor with there own FF mirrorless system does tend to suggest there maybe problems.

I spose if sensors really started to come down in price it also made lens design cheaper then it might make sense to create a system like the Ricoh GXR with linked sensor/lens units.

Yes, I agree that it would have little benefit for longer lenses - and may cause significant problems.

But I was thinking more along the lines of a compact non-interchangeable lens camera - like the RX1. With a curved sensor and wide angle lens - this could be a small body but spectacular performer. We will see. The rumor going around right now is that the RX2 will have curved sensor and a 35mm f/1.8 lens. Seems interesting.

Realistically though the RX1 was already a very good performer here, certainly much better than the FE 35mm 2.8.

Its not mentioned much but if you look at the RX1 len internals you can see a massive rear element...

I'm guessing that having that big chuck of glass near to the sensor allows for correcting light angles much more than can be achieved with interchangeable lenses.

A slightly faster, slightly smaller lens would be a benefit to the RX2 although I think improved AF and a built in viewfinder would be bigger improvements.

Actually, large rear element close to sensor potentially causes more problems with vignetting and color shifts than a small one would.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 4,323Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to jcharding, 5 months ago

jcharding wrote:

Well, if implemented fully (by Sony and whomever Sony sells the sensor too) it could also mean that all legacy lenses become useless.

I don't think so. My understanding at this early stage is that the amount of correction is merely in line with the current curvature of today's lenses. Lenses aren't flat today and a slight curve would benefit them.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 4,323Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to peevee1, 5 months ago

peevee1 wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

MoreorLess wrote:

brownie314 wrote:

If Sony can get it right (make it manufacturer at a "reasonable" price) this could be a game changer bigger than all of this mirrorless stuff (actually, many of will argue that mirrorless wasn't really a game changer - but that is another topic).

This has the potential to make it possible to put really small, simple lens designs on bodies and have IQ on par with the most expensive glass available.

I'd guess the big issue maybe that sensors and lenses need to be matched together to make such a system work, indeed I could potentially even see zooms causing issues. That Sony didn't look to use this sensor with there own FF mirrorless system does tend to suggest there maybe problems.

I spose if sensors really started to come down in price it also made lens design cheaper then it might make sense to create a system like the Ricoh GXR with linked sensor/lens units.

Yes, I agree that it would have little benefit for longer lenses - and may cause significant problems.

But I was thinking more along the lines of a compact non-interchangeable lens camera - like the RX1. With a curved sensor and wide angle lens - this could be a small body but spectacular performer. We will see. The rumor going around right now is that the RX2 will have curved sensor and a 35mm f/1.8 lens. Seems interesting.

Realistically though the RX1 was already a very good performer here, certainly much better than the FE 35mm 2.8.

Its not mentioned much but if you look at the RX1 len internals you can see a massive rear element...

I'm guessing that having that big chuck of glass near to the sensor allows for correcting light angles much more than can be achieved with interchangeable lenses.

A slightly faster, slightly smaller lens would be a benefit to the RX2 although I think improved AF and a built in viewfinder would be bigger improvements.

Actually, large rear element close to sensor potentially causes more problems with vignetting and color shifts than a small one would.

why?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MoreorLess
Senior MemberPosts: 2,929
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to stevo23, 5 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

peevee1 wrote:

Actually, large rear element close to sensor potentially causes more problems with vignetting and color shifts than a small one would.

why?

Tradisionally I spose you would link a larger rear element to a larger aperture and the extra optical issues that would create but in this case I'd guess were looking at something very different. The rear element is likely being used to alter the angle the light is hitting the sensor and obviously having a rear element as close in size to the sensor as possible makes it easier to have the light hitting it as perpendicular as possible.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ray s james
Regular MemberPosts: 177
Like?
Re: Sony's new curved sensor - this is a big deal
In reply to jcharding, 5 months ago

I agree with stev023, the opposite should be true, especially regarding old lenses.

-- hide signature --

Ray

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ron Poelman
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,255Gear list
Like?
Sony can't afford to launch another lens system...
In reply to brownie314, 5 months ago

for some time yet.
Marketing wise, the paucity of quality, native glass for the E/FE series
has done them no favours; especially when no one at Sony
ever gave a firm commitment to A-mount for (say) another 10 years.
They need to restablise their fan base, before disenfranchising them again.
They know it too, there seems to be a "full-time" offer of a
free lens adapter for every @7 sold to cover the obvious gap.
Curved is all very well, but unless it brings something
radically better to the table (like SLT), it will just be more tech.
Give the current, affordable, hammer blow of the @77Mk2, @99,
(and the 36mp @99Mk2 ?) plus all that A-mount glass,
it will be a very big call.
Tme to grow your market, Sony, not try to buy it (again).

-- hide signature --

Ron.
Volunteer, what could possibly go wrong ?

 Ron Poelman's gear list:Ron Poelman's gear list
Sony Cyber-shot DSC-H2 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-R1 Sony SLT-A57 Sony Alpha 7R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
T3
T3
Forum ProPosts: 18,036
Like?
Re: Sony can't afford to launch another lens system...
In reply to Ron Poelman, 5 months ago

Ron Poelman wrote:

for some time yet.
Marketing wise, the paucity of quality, native glass for the E/FE series
has done them no favours; especially when no one at Sony
ever gave a firm commitment to A-mount for (say) another 10 years.
They need to restablise their fan base, before disenfranchising them again.
They know it too, there seems to be a "full-time" offer of a
free lens adapter for every @7 sold to cover the obvious gap.
Curved is all very well, but unless it brings something
radically better to the table (like SLT), it will just be more tech.
Give the current, affordable, hammer blow of the @77Mk2, @99,
(and the 36mp @99Mk2 ?) plus all that A-mount glass,
it will be a very big call.
Tme to grow your market, Sony, not try to buy it (again).

-- hide signature --

Ron.
Volunteer, what could possibly go wrong ?

I think the degree of curvature is specifically designed for the peripheral light loss of existing lenses. It doesn't mean that an entirely new lens system would be required. In fact, I'm sure that that's exactly what they are trying to avoid. There are certainly some business justifications for starting a new lens system (e.g. mirrorless systems that require much shorter lens register distances, or sensor formats of significantly different sizes), but I don't think a slight curvature of a sensor to compensate for light loss along the periphery of a sensor is one of them.

Plus, it could just be sensor to be used in a fixed lens camera, like future RX1 models.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Glenn NK
Contributing MemberPosts: 951Gear list
Like?
Re: Sony can't afford to launch another lens system...
In reply to Ron Poelman, 5 months ago

Ron Poelman wrote:

for some time yet.
Marketing wise, the paucity of quality, native glass for the E/FE series
has done them no favours; especially when no one at Sony
ever gave a firm commitment to A-mount for (say) another 10 years.
They need to re-establish their fan base, before disenfranchising them again.
They know it too, there seems to be a "full-time" offer of a
free lens adapter for every @7 sold to cover the obvious gap.
Curved is all very well, but unless it brings something
radically better to the table (like SLT), it will just be more tech.
Give the current, affordable, hammer blow of the @77Mk2, @99,
(and the 36mp @99Mk2 ?) plus all that A-mount glass,
it will be a very big call.
Time to grow your market, Sony, not try to buy it (again).

-- hide signature --

Ron.
Volunteer, what could possibly go wrong ?

Who knows what Sony is trying to achieve - maybe increased market share?;-)  They certainly could use some. As you've in effect said, what they really need is a sense of where they're going. Sony seems to be going in all directions at once.

The topic came up here:

http://www.naturescapes.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=245631

And the reply by mclark is interesting.   And I have a feeling that they guy has some good points.

Big question:  who is going to buy into the curved sensor if it makes the millions of existing lenses redundant.   At present, most of us can use any number of lenses from a pretty good list of manufacturers; some better than original equipment.

-- hide signature --

Glenn NK

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads