Should we split the E-mount form, continuation Locked

Started 2 months ago | Questions
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dave
Regular MemberPosts: 331Gear list
Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
2 months ago

We need to spit this form to its usefulness.

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Sony A7 Pentax K5ii Canon 5D

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EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 10,641Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

We need to spit this form to its usefulness.

-- hide signature --

Sony A7 Pentax K5ii Canon 5D

Spitting it would be without any value added, but perhaps a demonstration of what becomes of a dysfunctional family.

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captura
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Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

We're all awaiting Simon's decision.

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Tuloom
Senior MemberPosts: 1,071
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

This site needs to change the preview photos from 560px to 1024px more than worrying about the forum schism silliness. 560px too small and outdated. There's nothing to tell about a photo at that size.

kaku
Contributing MemberPosts: 611
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to Tuloom, 2 months ago

This site needs to change the preview photos from 560px to 1024px more than worrying about the forum schism silliness. 560px too small and outdated.

I like the preview size as is as I don't always need to view images large. If you need to view larger or pixel peep, you can just click the image to zoom/enlarge it.

Tuloom
Senior MemberPosts: 1,071
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to kaku, 2 months ago

kaku wrote:

This site needs to change the preview photos from 560px to 1024px more than worrying about the forum schism silliness. 560px too small and outdated.

I like the preview size as is as I don't always need to view images large. If you need to view larger or pixel peep, you can just click the image to zoom/enlarge it.

When someone posts an image it gets lost at 560. That resolution worked well back in '92.

pixelpushing
Senior MemberPosts: 1,121Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 2 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

We need to spit this form to its usefulness.

-- hide signature --

Sony A7 Pentax K5ii Canon 5D

Spitting it would be without any value added, but perhaps a demonstration of what becomes of a dysfunctional family.

Why force cohabitation amid dysfunction? If it mean no more than a reduction in accusations of 'elitism', then I say some members of the 'family' should be allowed to move out and get their own place.

From an earlier comment you made to me today:

The only thing different about A-mount lenses is the designation itself.

A-mount is derived from Minolta AF, which predates the Sony purchase. A-mount native cameras are all mirror. Minolta AF 35mm evolved into Minolta then Sony APS-C and FF SLR and SLT models. This is a very different evolution compared to E-mount, even if the interchangeable aspect is mostly the same.

A mount follows closer to Canon and Nikon going from 35mm to APS-C and FF with same sensor variations for each, right down to the legacy compatibility (sans motor drive AF, depending).

You may not like price based forum splitting but that is exactly why the model you support has it.

Canon and Nikon use model line segregation because they have very long history and wide, varied inventory of digital bodies dating back many generations that combining them would cause such traffic as to make users of each 'class' alienated and have 'thread burial' happen too quickly.

This has less to do with price discrimination than with logistics and practicality, making sure each group gets a fair shake.

Canon has three forums on two sensor sizes: based on camera category. Same for Nikon. May be, then, NEX-7 deserves its own forum, to be joined only by a similar flagship model if it happens?

This looks purely on the face of the Canikon fora division as a cautionary strawman argument vs. segregation. The reality is, those other cameras are segregated for the reasons above, and are in no way indicative or 'logically leading to' the exclusion of the NEX-7 into its own forum.

These 'taking it to the next step' warnings against an alleged 'split-pocalypse' chain reaction lack historical basis. Look how hard it's been shown to divide THIS forum - there have now been two strong majority votes in favor of splitting. And it took a similar push to get NEX its own section. The likelihood of a NEX-7-only forum configuration is nil.

As the majority of people here clearly feel, benefits of having a segregated NEX/Alpha Xxxx E-mount crop forum vs. Alpha 7x FF forum would outweigh negatives. And from what I see, a bigger ratio of FF users want the split, which makes me wonder why some NEX/Alpha Xxxx/E-mount folks want to retain the A7 so badly. If anything, it's more likely that FF discussion will suffer more from being spun off the 4 year old, established NEX/E forum.

I do want to say on record that real elitism has no place here, and any FF owner that talks down APS-C is no better than a basic troll. Sensor size does not a photographer make.

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Steve W
Regular MemberPosts: 359Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

Based on my previous post I definitely support it. Some have said there will be less post and it will boring. For me its a different sorry because I do read the APS-C post but only when I' considering buying an APS-C camera which for the moment is not now. I have a limitted time to spend reading forums so finding the info I'm interested in in less time is a plus. I read the Canon FF, Sony FE, Fuji-X, Lighting, etc forums so I can move around quicker if the forums are more focused.

Also some made the comment that now you can take away BIF, Wildlife, as away to prove limiting the forum is a negative. Well I also read the forums here on Portraits, Wildlife, Landscape, Astro, when I want to focus on something related to those topics.

So while there are lots of different things posted here it is a gear forum ultimately. Heck its named after a camera manufacturer and a catagory(s) of camera they make not form or style of photography.

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Furious Tide Of Light
Forum MemberPosts: 86Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to Steve W, 2 months ago

So which forum should this type of thread (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3683992) be in if we split?

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Riquez
Contributing MemberPosts: 687Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to Tuloom, 2 months ago

Tuloom wrote:

kaku wrote:

This site needs to change the preview photos from 560px to 1024px more than worrying about the forum schism silliness. 560px too small and outdated.

I like the preview size as is as I don't always need to view images large. If you need to view larger or pixel peep, you can just click the image to zoom/enlarge it.

When someone posts an image it gets lost at 560. That resolution worked well back in '92.

There are several updates needed. Getting the image zoom to work on ipad for one. why is exif lost when posting from certain browsers? Why is the mobile version of the site so limited as to be almost pointless.

However, these are all upgrades that take time. Splitting forum is quick & easy, a hot topic & doesn't mean the other upgrades should be ignored.

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40daystogo
Forum MemberPosts: 69
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to Riquez, 2 months ago

I don't want to split.

I take to heart Sony's intention that the Alpha FF and Alpha A6000 cameras are now the same alpha group of cameras. Ever since becoming aware of the A6000 and eventually buying one, I have read the DPReview E-mount forums, and never once occurred to me that it was an inconvenience to have A7 discussions. The reason is that the E-mount is the same for both FF and APS-C, and this makes me believe I will eventually get an A7 camera in the near future. Hence, I am interested to keep up with discussions on the A7 cameras even though I currently only own an A6000.

The menus of the A7 and A6000 are said to be similar, hence, advice given on FF is sometimes applicable to the operation of the same features on the A6000. Indeed, I have an A6000 and an RX100, and find that the consistency of Sony's menus meant that I didn't have much of a learning curve with my new A6000.

As an A6000 owner, some of the FE lenses are of interest to me.

D Cox
Senior MemberPosts: 7,207
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

dave wrote:

We need to spit this form to its usefulness.

We do not. It is most useful to me when it covers all E-mount cameras.

There are too many separate forums on this site already.

They could make the pages longer, if you are worried about not being able to see posts from yesterday.

captura
Forum ProPosts: 13,337Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to 40daystogo, 2 months ago

40daystogo wrote:

I don't want to split.

I take to heart Sony's intention that the Alpha FF and Alpha A6000 cameras are now the same alpha group of cameras. Ever since becoming aware of the A6000 and eventually buying one, I have read the DPReview E-mount forums, and never once occurred to me that it was an inconvenience to have A7 discussions. The reason is that the E-mount is the same for both FF and APS-C, and this makes me believe I will eventually get an A7 camera in the near future. Hence, I am interested to keep up with discussions on the A7 cameras even though I currently only own an A6000.

The menus of the A7 and A6000 are said to be similar, hence, advice given on FF is sometimes applicable to the operation of the same features on the A6000. Indeed, I have an A6000 and an RX100, and find that the consistency of Sony's menus meant that I didn't have much of a learning curve with my new A6000.

As an A6000 owner, some of the FE lenses are of interest to me.

Alpha has been the all-inclusive cover name for years. Even the NEX cameras carried the Alpha symbol.

I've been using the FE 28-70 on the 5R and 7 with  good success.

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kaku
Contributing MemberPosts: 611
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to Tuloom, 2 months ago

Tuloom wrote:

kaku wrote:

This site needs to change the preview photos from 560px to 1024px more than worrying about the forum schism silliness. 560px too small and outdated.

I like the preview size as is as I don't always need to view images large. If you need to view larger or pixel peep, you can just click the image to zoom/enlarge it.

When someone posts an image it gets lost at 560. That resolution worked well back in '92.

It does not get lost. Displaying a lower resolution is only meant to convey a preview of the image. Hence, the reason you have the option of clicking to go bigger. Not only that, but having a smaller image allows for less bandwidth usage and quicker page loads.

With all that stated, I would be agreeable to having larger resolution images if the message column width were expanded. Currently, it only takes up about 60% of the screen. They should make it 80% with 20% allocated for the extra links/ads.

Tuloom
Senior MemberPosts: 1,071
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to kaku, 2 months ago

kaku wrote:

Tuloom wrote:

kaku wrote:

This site needs to change the preview photos from 560px to 1024px more than worrying about the forum schism silliness. 560px too small and outdated.

I like the preview size as is as I don't always need to view images large. If you need to view larger or pixel peep, you can just click the image to zoom/enlarge it.

When someone posts an image it gets lost at 560. That resolution worked well back in '92.

It does not get lost. Displaying a lower resolution is only meant to convey a preview of the image. Hence, the reason you have the option of clicking to go bigger. Not only that, but having a smaller image allows for less bandwidth usage and quicker page loads.

Load times are fine in all of the images thread on FM, POTN, etc... POTN limits to 1024. FM is mix, but there's a lot at 1280. Insignificant load times in those threads.

It silly in 2014 to have images on a photography site appear at 560. You are forced to hit original or magnify. It's extra steps. They are easy steps, but when you total the round trip up, form larger photo back to the thread, it's significant over time and a real ass pain in the image threads. It's even worse when someone links from their gallery. You're taken to the gallery first; only then can you find a larger image with yet another click.

With all that stated, I would be agreeable to having larger resolution images if the message column width were expanded. Currently, it only takes up about 60% of the screen. They should make it 80% with 20% allocated for the extra links/ads.

No doubt. The entire left column is a waste. The Most Popular Camera, Top Threads, and worst of all, that sophomoric Top Posters list ---which only serves to motivate the obsessive afflicted to keep posting fluff and doodle--- all could be trash canned. Get rid of all that crap and replace with ads.

More money for the site and the site becomes better for people who actually use a camera. Win Win.

It's like a hookah bar full of cabbage patch dolls around here--- dated and passe. No one wants to be there.

EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 10,641Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to pixelpushing, 2 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

We need to spit this form to its usefulness.

-- hide signature --

Sony A7 Pentax K5ii Canon 5D

Spitting it would be without any value added, but perhaps a demonstration of what becomes of a dysfunctional family.

Why force cohabitation amid dysfunction? If it mean no more than a reduction in accusations of 'elitism', then I say some members of the 'family' should be allowed to move out and get their own place.

From an earlier comment you made to me today:

The only thing different about A-mount lenses is the designation itself.

A-mount is derived from Minolta AF, which predates the Sony purchase. A-mount native cameras are all mirror. Minolta AF 35mm evolved into Minolta then Sony APS-C and FF SLR and SLT models. This is a very different evolution compared to E-mount, even if the interchangeable aspect is mostly the same.

A mount follows closer to Canon and Nikon going from 35mm to APS-C and FF with same sensor variations for each, right down to the legacy compatibility (sans motor drive AF, depending).

You may not like price based forum splitting but that is exactly why the model you support has it.

Canon and Nikon use model line segregation because they have very long history and wide, varied inventory of digital bodies dating back many generations that combining them would cause such traffic as to make users of each 'class' alienated and have 'thread burial' happen too quickly.

This has less to do with price discrimination than with logistics and practicality, making sure each group gets a fair shake.

Canon has three forums on two sensor sizes: based on camera category. Same for Nikon. May be, then, NEX-7 deserves its own forum, to be joined only by a similar flagship model if it happens?

This looks purely on the face of the Canikon fora division as a cautionary strawman argument vs. segregation. The reality is, those other cameras are segregated for the reasons above, and are in no way indicative or 'logically leading to' the exclusion of the NEX-7 into its own forum.

These 'taking it to the next step' warnings against an alleged 'split-pocalypse' chain reaction lack historical basis. Look how hard it's been shown to divide THIS forum - there have now been two strong majority votes in favor of splitting. And it took a similar push to get NEX its own section. The likelihood of a NEX-7-only forum configuration is nil.

As the majority of people here clearly feel, benefits of having a segregated NEX/Alpha Xxxx E-mount crop forum vs. Alpha 7x FF forum would outweigh negatives. And from what I see, a bigger ratio of FF users want the split, which makes me wonder why some NEX/Alpha Xxxx/E-mount folks want to retain the A7 so badly. If anything, it's more likely that FF discussion will suffer more from being spun off the 4 year old, established NEX/E forum.

I do want to say on record that real elitism has no place here, and any FF owner that talks down APS-C is no better than a basic troll. Sensor size does not a photographer make.

How a system evolves has no bearing on how it exists and is meant to be discussed today. For that matter, as I suggested in another thread moments ago... we need a separate forum to have forum splitters congregate and discuss splitting forums.

It is rather amusing to see people complain about flooding of a7 threads after its launch and then flooding with a6000 threads following its, but flooding with unnecessary "split the forum" is somehow non issue.

What happens following camera launches, and to older models is unavoidable. That is the reality.

What is it that you gain from splitting?

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123Mike
Senior MemberPosts: 4,212Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

I'd like to re-iterate the need to split all the technical camera hardware topics from the photography related topics. It seems that it's mostly about camera this better than camera that - and just about ONLY about that. We're seeing way too little artistic things like landscapes, macros, low light, street, etc.

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EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 10,641Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to Furious Tide Of Light, 2 months ago

So which forum should this type of thread (http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3683992) be in if we split?

Both.

That is what many want more of.

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Nate Dogg
Regular MemberPosts: 231
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to dave, 2 months ago

Let it go, for crying out loud! Go out and take some photos instead of worrying about how a forum is organized.

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-Nate

EinsteinsGhost
Forum ProPosts: 10,641Gear list
Re: Should we split the E-mount form, continuation
In reply to D Cox, 2 months ago

dave wrote:

We need to spit this form to its usefulness.

We do not. It is most useful to me when it covers all E-mount cameras.

There are too many separate forums on this site already.

They could make the pages longer, if you are worried about not being able to see posts from yesterday.

Amen!

Probably allow members to filter by camera type and/or sensor size.

For example, if Sony a7000 happens, we can expect a flurry of a7000 vs a7 threads. Someone not interested in FF can choose to filter them out but those interested can contribute from both sides.

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