Is this forum quietening down?

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DAVID MANZE
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Is this forum quietening down?
2 months ago

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore!

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emem
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Yes it is .......
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

I'm afraid more than just quietening down. I think this forum has more or less reached the state that I predicted for it several years ago - unfortunately.

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DrugaRunda
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The cameras are too good
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

There is nothing to complain about anymore.

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common sense is anything but common

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henryk1
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Re: The cameras are too good
In reply to DrugaRunda, 2 months ago

Maybe the members are out using their Pentaxes instead of sitting at the computer whining about them.

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Zvonimir Tosic
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It's because Ricoh is a boring brand owner
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore!

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Dave's clichés

Take a look at Ricoh forum; only more languid forum on DPR is the Konica Minolta Forum. There is a pattern to it, as all these brands were first purchased, then left in open air of uncertainty. What happened to Konica-Minolta's assets is that they were made into a scrambled egg with lettuce snack by Sony. And then left aside.

In this case, it is because of Ricoh's anaesthetic approach to marketing, which entails putting products and entire lines into a comatose condition of uncertainty so that users have no idea:

A) whether it will suddenly wake up or

B) as suspected, be dead, forgotten, and abandoned.

After 3 years of brand ownership, we have had two statements that spark some enthusiasm: Pentax K-3 and Pentax 645Z. They prove at least Pentax has some life left to it, but its lenses — which are the very heart, past, present and future of the system — are still left in a state of total uncertainty.

Things like that — definite and positive movements in all fronts not just one, clear and non-dubious statements as opposed to confusing and misdirected messages — they can make things exciting even among long-time users.

But when the only tangible news is the K-3, and the 645Z remains a science fiction to almost all forum members, there is only as much we can talk about: the situation is exactly the same as when we have had the K5 and the 645D.

  • The gap between lines is same.
  • The lens problems (focal lengths missing, SDM issues, etc.) is still same.
  • Marketing problems (inaudible and invisible presence) is still same.

Ricoh's ownership did not change anything worth mentioning in the sense that we may be certain Ricoh has added some new value on top of old Pentax brand that Pentax couldn't do without Ricoh's supervision anyway. You state Pentax users may think Pentax is better placed under Ricoh, but it is only our wishful thinking, or reassurance that it must be so. We may even argue that Pentax could have done it all faster without Ricoh's fancy and time-wasting rebranding exercises, and, for Pentax, pointless restructuring that took forever.

That time lost for Pentax, was given by Ricoh to other manufacturers to advance forward and establish themselves as even better choices in some regards. Think Fuji. Think Olympus.

And on the Ricoh's own front, they have killed its own lines of cameras, and to compensate for it, they have rebadged some from Pentax. What kind of progress or added value is that?

So indeed, how long we can talk about K-3, a body that finally caught up with competitors in some respects, and the TC, that came after 8 years finally? Should we clap loudly and forever as to some amazing achievement to all that?

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gaddigad
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Re: Is this forum quietening down?
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore!

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Dave's clichés

For a company, ignorance is worse than 'complaints' (aka "rant'..). They may be better off than under Hoya. Pentax / Asahi developed SR, built a full frame DSLR, issued the most compact aps-c DSLRs, had power zooms on SLRs, developed lots of interesting and affordable high qualiity lenses (24-90 3.5-4.5 anyone, 28-70 F4, 300 f2.8 just to name a few) and coined the ingenious 'Pentax Colors' meme which Hoya thoroughly extinguished and Ricoh never bothered to take interest in, so far. And now all the rage (for better or for worse) is in the Fuji/Sony/Olympus/Panasonic/Samsung grounds. Pentax can (at the very least) be as interesting as Olympus, another classic photo dinosaur that reinvented itself.

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DAVID MANZE
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Re: It's because Ricoh is a boring brand owner
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 2 months ago

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore!

-- hide signature --

Dave's clichés

Take a look at Ricoh forum; only more languid forum on DPR is the Konica Minolta Forum. There is a pattern to it, as all these brands were first purchased, then left in open air of uncertainty. What happened to Konica-Minolta's assets is that they were made into a scrambled egg with lettuce snack by Sony. And then left aside.

Things like that — definite and positive movements in all fronts not just one, clear and non-dubious statements as opposed to confusing and misdirected messages — they can make things exciting even among long-time users.

But when the only tangible news is the K-3, and the 645Z remains a science fiction to almost all forum members, there is only as much we can talk about: the situation is exactly the same as when we have had the K5 and the 645D.

  • The gap between lines is same.
  • The lens problems (focal lengths missing, SDM issues, etc.) is still same.
  • Marketing problems (inaudible and invisible presence) is still same.

That time lost for Pentax, was given by Ricoh to other manufacturers to advance forward and establish themselves as even better choices in some regards. Think Fuji. Think Olympus.

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Your certainly right about Fuji and Olympus; it's action all the way and good responses especially from Fuji, , Sony also continues to bring out cutting edge stuff, now the K3 has been around for a while I think it will take some time before we see the replacement, and that could mean a dead calm product wise.

We've had some sort of run (by Pentax standards) the K3, a teleconverter, the limited 20-40mm and some sort of commitment by Sigma which gives us some hope, but it looks like we will be back to the snails pace of an odd lens here, a rip off slide copier there and a lot of delays backed by a strong output of silence from Ricoh. (which is proving to be true vis a vis machine gun mirror syndrome, not a word)

Where are we supposed to buy our Pentax telephoto lenses? Even Ebay turns over more Pentax lenses than Ricoh.

A business psychologist would probably say that Ricoh has an attitude behavioral problem!

BTW the fix the SDM issue still remains the most popular topic and still not an official word about it from  P/R.

Dave's clichés

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gaddigad
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Re: It's because Ricoh is a boring brand owner
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

DAVID MANZE wrote:

BTW the fix the SDM issue still remains the most popular topic and still not an official word about it from P/R.

Dave's clichés

The DA 560 DC and DA 20-40 DC limited is probably their way to say it.

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Petroglyph
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Re: Is this forum quietening down?
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

Ricoh hasn't released anything recently and they allow no rumours to keep the buz going.  Sony, in the meantime, has released something like 5-6 cameras and a lot of interesting upgrades.  Also Ricoh said themselves that they are concentrating on Asia and India with aps/c.  The camera is very good. how about releasing a lens or two from the roadmap?

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GossCTP
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It has been for awhile
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore!

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Dave's clichés

This forum has been dying for awhile. When the K10D was introduced, there was a period where the oldest post was 1-2 hours. Even when the buzz had long died down, it was still unheard of to have posts a day old. Pentax forums probably had a lot to do with it. Several good posters left or were banned for trivial matters and went over there. I don't know if this forum is a barometer for Pentax health, but we should all hope not.

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jamesm007
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Re: Is this forum quietening down?
In reply to Petroglyph, 2 months ago

I noticed QC overall has gone up across brands and especially lens. This has lessened the amount of "is my lens good" posts; brick wall posts.

Same with dSLR bodies overall QC seems much better than the K10D days. This lowers the complaints and the long discussions from it. Remember we always blamed it on AF and had the complainers post pics so we could blame the lens or possible body or more likely the user.

Back in the K10D days when I started it was the time dSLR bodies prices went below $1000 and many more people (factors more) could now buy into a dSLR system, like me!

I think manufactures did not have the science down yet and we where the beta testers for dSLRs and lens!

Sensors are almost equal now in any price range. No wars on the K10D had better sharpness because it had a lighter AA filter. Or the high ISO on the D300 was better than the K20D(?) wars.

And!

Too many systems. No one knows what's going to happen to their systems. I agree with others plain and simple! We need a standard like 35mm. Not to blow my horn (well not too loud) but I have been saying we need a standard. So we can move on and develop it. Like the PC it has not changed since the days I built them in 1989. You still have the MB, CPU, Ram, HD... A standard to build on. That saves money for R&D into one standard say APS instead of trying to see what people will buy and give the highest profits. Yes companies need to make money but I think some have become overly greedy, shooting themselves in the foot.

Manufactures and even reviewers are seemingly trying to push other formats onto people. Well I can only speak from my country the USA which is not the biggest buyer of dSLRs. But I can tell you when people spend $800 and they see the smaller mirrorless and then the bigger APS dSLR, well guaranteed the majority are going to get the APS dSLR. Its just a more fun camera for enthusiasts. And stands out as an expensive camera. Compact mirrorless could get confused with a P/S. Don't want that to happen. Image is everything!

The price of a entry level dSLR should now be around $350 after all these years. That's stopping people. The magic $1000 mark was broke and when the Sony A100, Pentax K20D, Oly E510 came out the market was booming; so many features for the money. It was great. We had entry level for even less.

Yes I know the economy right after that dSLR boom went south. But that's why manufactures should have opened the door at lower price points. Canon and Nikon entry level bodies had no AF motor, no Shake Reduction, no sensor cleaning system and should have been cheap. They were high profit bodies for Nikon, Canon.

We are Pentax dSLR fans. Sometimes when I look at lens prices I get mad and think I will jump ship. Then I look at what others give for the money and overall Pentax seems the highest performing best value APS system including lens. I do enjoy the Pentax system a lot. No one still has WR kit lens but Pentax. In Michigan that's a must have to shoot year round.

Systems have become so good we don't care that the K-3 has lower DR than the K-5. We use to argue about the K-7 having more high ISO noise versus the K20D. And people wrote posts defending the K-7. I don't see anyone defending anything, except formats.

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jamesm007
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Re: Is this forum quietening down?
In reply to jamesm007, 2 months ago

jamesm007 wrote:

I noticed QC overall has gone up across brands and especially lens. This has lessened the amount of "is my lens good" posts; brick wall posts.

Same with dSLR bodies overall QC seems much better than the K10D days. This lowers the complaints and the long discussions from it. Remember we always blamed it on AF and had the complainers post pics so we could blame the lens or possible body or more likely the user.

Back in the K10D days when I started it was the time dSLR bodies prices went below $1000 and many more people (factors more) could now buy into a dSLR system, like me!

I think manufactures did not have the science down yet and we where the beta testers for dSLRs and lens!

Sensors are almost equal now in any price range. No wars on the K10D had better sharpness because it had a lighter AA filter. Or the high ISO on the D300 was better than the K20D(?) wars.

And!

Too many systems. No one knows what's going to happen to their systems. I agree with others plain and simple! We need a standard like 35mm. Not to blow my horn (well not too loud) but I have been saying we need a standard. So we can move on and develop it. Like the PC it has not changed since the days I built them in 1989. You still have the MB, CPU, Ram, HD... A standard to build on. That saves money for R&D into one standard say APS instead of trying to see what people will buy and give the highest profits. Yes companies need to make money but I think some have become overly greedy, shooting themselves in the foot.

Manufactures and even reviewers are seemingly trying to push other formats onto people. Well I can only speak from my country the USA which is not the biggest buyer of dSLRs. But I can tell you when people spend $800 and they see the smaller mirrorless and then the bigger APS dSLR, well guaranteed the majority are going to get the APS dSLR. Its just a more fun camera for enthusiasts. And stands out as an expensive camera. Compact mirrorless could get confused with a P/S. Don't want that to happen. Image is everything!

The price of a entry level dSLR should now be around $350 after all these years. That's stopping people. The magic $1000 mark was broke and when the Sony A100, Pentax K20D, Oly E510 came out the market was booming; so many features for the money. It was great. We had entry level for even less.

Yes I know the economy right after that dSLR boom went south. But that's why manufactures should have opened the door at lower price points. Canon and Nikon entry level bodies had no AF motor, no Shake Reduction, no sensor cleaning system and should have been cheap. They were high profit bodies for Nikon, Canon.

We are Pentax dSLR fans. Sometimes when I look at lens prices I get mad and think I will jump ship. Then I look at what others give for the money and overall Pentax seems the highest performing best value APS system including lens. I do enjoy the Pentax system a lot. No one still has WR kit lens but Pentax. In Michigan that's a must have to shoot year round.

Systems have become so good we don't care that the K-3 has lower DR than the K-5. We use to argue about the K-7 having more high ISO noise versus the K20D. And people wrote posts defending the K-7. I don't see anyone defending anything, except formats.

Oh I forgot. I have been watching the lowered forum activity as well. Its not just Pentax! Its many more brands as well. Check it out for yourself.

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jf_tea
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maybe people have lost confidence in the Net / Web
In reply to GossCTP, 2 months ago

I have closed a few of my accounts on other sites.

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22codfish
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Out of sight, out of mind, out of business
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

My reply title comes from a post title in the "Open Talk" forum.  The thread is not about Pentax, but I sure thought of Pentax when I read the title.
I'm pleased to read here that Pentax is concentrating in India and China, because the Pentax brand has disappeared from advertising here in Canada.  Has anyone read their financials and reports? Can the Asian concentration be confirmed? I hope it can. Every brand has to expand their customer base.  This can't happen for Pentax here, if Pentax is out of sight. Where are the new guys?It doesn't matter to me; I'm happy with my Pentax gear and will try to remain one camera model behind for now.  Something to look forward to, and I'm a slow learner of such advanced technicial equipment anyway.  However, I keep seeing the same names contributing to this forum during the last two years I've had my Pentax.  Pentax is not the only brand forum where such thoughts have been posted.  Maybe the whole camera thing is a bit quiet right now?  I still have my Nikon FM and a couple of lens.  When I decided to purchase a DSLR, it was a toss-up.  I was convinced by a UTube video of an American soldier in Afganistan; who covered his K5 and lens in dirt and then washed it off.  Also, at that time a camera technician told me he saw a most popular camera lens ruined by the owner with wet hands.  I thought if your going to spend a lot on camera gear, it would be nice to be able to use it whenever, at the beach or in wet weather.  Looking back, that video of the soldier's demostration meant more to me than any Pentax advertising.

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jamesm007
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Re: maybe people have lost confidence in the Net / Web
In reply to jf_tea, 2 months ago

jf_tea wrote:

I have closed a few of my accounts on other sites.

Yep I agree with that as a major cause. Good one I did not think of.

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jamesm007
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Re: Out of sight, out of mind, out of business
In reply to 22codfish, 2 months ago

That was a very candid, just show it like it is video. It spoke volumes about the toughness of Pentax gear. I think Pentax should sponsor him. He has also developed into a truly world class photographer with amazing pictures that tell a story.

What better thing to do. Give a Soldier in life and death situations capturing it all in one of the worst environments there is. From my understanding even military gear needs a lot of maintenance with the amount of dust dust storms, hot weather. And his Pentax gear just keeps rolling along. If I remember he wrote he has even dropped his gear with no damage.

The video ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eo61t5fH6Qw

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Wallace Ross
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Yes who wants to hear about how happy I am with my K-3
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

I now have a camera that rivals medium format film for resolution while provided un-imagined convenience what am I supposed to talk about how I haven't had an SDM failure? No one wants to hear that either.  I would like some more lenses to choose from we could talk about that.

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petreluk
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Re: Is this forum quietening down?
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore

I have noticed the same thing over at Pentaxforums dot com. My guess is that either the whole digital imaging thang has quietened down or that a lot of long-standing Pentax users have looked at Ricoh's extremely mysterious stewardship of Pentax - what were Ricoh thinking then and what are they thinking now? - then drawn their conclusions and moved on. This may particularly apply to enthusiasts, traditionally the backbone of Pentax, who I suspect tend to be more active online. Ricoh may well be selling more camera these days and turning in much better financials - I don't know, though it would be nice if true - but to different kinds of customer.

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: Is this forum quietening down?
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

I am not sure I understand the site popularity plots completely that are at the website below.  But it looks like to me that dpreview site visits decrease during the summer and pick back up in the fall.   So maybe it is just good weather and people are out taking pictures.

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/dpreview.com

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fakuryu
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Everything was awesome since the K5II, let's complain about the lenses!
In reply to DAVID MANZE, 2 months ago

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Hi guys,

I've been noticing that this site is quietening down recently, the first page has posts dating back three days "before" it hits the bottom, it surprises me as I think Pentax (under Ricoh) is better placed in the market than a few years ago, perhaps we don't need to fight so hard anymore!

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Dave's clichés

Pentax/Ricoh? Where is my HD35mm f2.4? or an HD* 50-135 f2.8? or an HD* line-up? Actually that is what I should've asked the Pentax representative from the Cebu plant during the Digital Photographer Philippines 8 last week.

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There is no such thing a "Pro" level gear, just Pro level work.

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