MFT, Fuji and NEX

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
Enir4
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MFT, Fuji and NEX
5 months ago

A friend of mine posted this 100% center of a photo that according to him proves the advantage of the Fuji X-Trans sensor over MFT. I see just the opposite, the EM5 on the left is noisier at 3200 ISO, but the X-T1 on the right is dull, flat and has little detail, typical of its built-in noise reduction, even in raw.

Before I moved to MFT from NEX 7, I considered Fuji, tried the X-E1 and returned it to the dealer, because I was bothered by the built-in NR. As for the NEX system, they have great sensors, but lack the lenses and the ergonomics of the EM1 and the GX7. People told me here that IQ was not the reason to move from NEX to MFT. Well, I disagree, it is also a matter of IQ. IQ is not only sensors, but also, and more important, lenses, and I get better image quality with my MFT cameras than I did with my NEX before.
I want to post this because in some comments on this forum  I read hyperbolic comments regarding the superior IQ of Fuji and Nex. Well, I disagree. A NEX and a Fuji X-Trans cannot touch the IQ of the EM1 or the GX7 with the 2.8 zooms, 75mm lens, etc. They have better noise characteristics, but that's about it.

Enrique

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Glen Barrington
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This just illustrates 2 things . . .
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago
  1. Image quality is a completely subjective experience.
  2. NOBODY wins in a pixel peeping contest!

Go take pictures and have some REAL fun. Tell your friend I said so.

Edit: Now that I think about it, you guys ought to compete about who is the better photographer, rather than who has the better camera.  With a talent contest you know you've won when the other guy doesn't want to play any more.  But arguments over gear NEVER end and are NEVER won.

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Jim Salvas
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There is 3200 and then there is 3200
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

The Fuji looks underexposed about a half stop, compared to tge Olymap us image.

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Jim Salvas
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Lab D
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Agree with IQ advantage
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

Because Fuji appears to use NR in RAW files, IMHO it can never match the sharpness and IQ of other cameras.  SW and manual control over NR simply lets you do a better job.

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secretworld
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Re: Agree with IQ advantage
In reply to Lab D, 5 months ago

I have both a PM2 and a X-E1 and I really compared (daylight not high iso). Using a good raw converter like fotoninja or Capture one or even lightzone, they are really equal. Interesting is that with very fine structures, sometimes the Xtrans wins and sometimes the bayer sensor. Yes at base iso the Fuji has really less noise but at base iso noise isn't really a problem with the PM2.

The 18-55 is a very fine kit zoom, better then the m4/3 14-42's and even 14-45. Almost equal to my 20 and 45mm primes.

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cptobvious
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

You're comparing a prime that being stopped down to its sharpest aperture vs. a zoom that's stopped down less than a stop.  For a fairer comparison, I think you should be using the Fuji 23mm f/1.4 at f/4.

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Michael M Fliegel
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Re: This just illustrates 2 things . . .
In reply to Glen Barrington, 5 months ago

Agree whole-heartedly.  It's not the camera, its the eye (and imagination) of the photographer.

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knickerhawk
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Re: Agree with IQ advantage
In reply to secretworld, 5 months ago

secretworld wrote:

I have both a PM2 and a X-E1 and I really compared (daylight not high iso). Using a good raw converter like fotoninja or Capture one or even lightzone, they are really equal. Interesting is that with very fine structures, sometimes the Xtrans wins and sometimes the bayer sensor.

I would expect that the deciding factor is how much of the "fine structure" is based on color differences versus how much is based on luminance differences.

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Lumixdude
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

This proves categorically the faults with X-Trans, it creates blurry images which lack fine details. It's the number one reason I'll never own a Fuji camera until X-Trans has an off switch. Speaking of base ISO is irrelevant, X-Trans destroys images whether at base ISO or otherwise and from a technical perspective as it should be looked at to achieve what it does, it's not a good solution.

Perhaps if you're too lazy to care and you want to post jpegs out of the camera to facebook then you buy a Fuji camera.

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tgutgu
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

To to me the E-M5 shows better detail and the noise has a better appearance (less blotchy).

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Thomas

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perry rhodan
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Lumixdude, 5 months ago

There is an x-trans free fuji x !

http://www.chip.de/artikel/Fujifilm-X-A1-DSLM-Test_65022062.html

regards perry

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Enir4
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to perry rhodan, 5 months ago

perry rhodan wrote:

There is an x-trans free fuji x !

http://www.chip.de/artikel/Fujifilm-X-A1-DSLM-Test_65022062.html

regards perry

I don't trust what Fuji did to the XA1 to prove that the X-Trans is better. Instead, there is still the original X-100 (no S).

Enrique

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perry rhodan
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

The XA1 is the only bayer based X in the fuji system line-up. Some tests even give it the highest marks of ALL systemcamera's.

R P

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particleman78
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

Looks like this example is using Adobe Lightroom.  Lightroom does a horrible job with x-trans files, Fuji's RAWs don't have built in noise reduction but Lightroom's demosaic algorithm smears everything such that it appears it does.  PhotoNinja, Capture One, Aperature will all produce sharper images with more detail, albeit with more luminance noise.  Most on the Fuji Forum will agree that Lightroom/ACR is probably the worst RAW convertor for x-trans files if you are a pixel peeper.

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taz98spin
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Lumixdude, 5 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

This proves categorically the faults with X-Trans, it creates blurry images which lack fine details. It's the number one reason I'll never own a Fuji camera until X-Trans has an off switch. Speaking of base ISO is irrelevant, X-Trans destroys images whether at base ISO or otherwise and from a technical perspective as it should be looked at to achieve what it does, it's not a good solution.

Perhaps if you're too lazy to care and you want to post jpegs out of the camera to facebook then you buy a Fuji camera.

Sure, so all the folks who bought a Fuji X camera are lazy and only post to facebook?

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papillon_65
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Lumixdude, 5 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

This proves categorically the faults with X-Trans, it creates blurry images which lack fine details. It's the number one reason I'll never own a Fuji camera until X-Trans has an off switch. Speaking of base ISO is irrelevant, X-Trans destroys images whether at base ISO or otherwise and from a technical perspective as it should be looked at to achieve what it does, it's not a good solution.

Perhaps if you're too lazy to care and you want to post jpegs out of the camera to facebook then you buy a Fuji camera.

You need to use the right raw processor with X trans files, Adobe isn't the way to go, you can get excellent results using the Fuji's, you just have to know what you're doing. It's very easy to get X-trans raw files and test this out. There are some very bad examples from the X-trans sensors all over the net, but plenty of good ones as well. Simon who is also an m4/3's user posted a very good article on his blog about the X-T1, I don't see anything to worry about from this camera here.

http://sgoldswoblog.com/2014/05/13/a-tale-of-extremes-fujifilm-x-t1/

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tt321
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to papillon_65, 5 months ago

papillon_65 wrote:

Lumixdude wrote:

This proves categorically the faults with X-Trans, it creates blurry images which lack fine details. It's the number one reason I'll never own a Fuji camera until X-Trans has an off switch. Speaking of base ISO is irrelevant, X-Trans destroys images whether at base ISO or otherwise and from a technical perspective as it should be looked at to achieve what it does, it's not a good solution.

Perhaps if you're too lazy to care and you want to post jpegs out of the camera to facebook then you buy a Fuji camera.

You need to use the right raw processor with X trans files, Adobe isn't the way to go, you can get excellent results using the Fuji's, you just have to know what you're doing. It's very easy to get X-trans raw files and test this out. There are some very bad examples from the X-trans sensors all over the net, but plenty of good ones as well. Simon who is also an m4/3's user posted a very good article on his blog about the X-T1, I don't see anything to worry about from this camera here.

http://sgoldswoblog.com/2014/05/13/a-tale-of-extremes-fujifilm-x-t1/

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A very nice read. Thanks. However, nothing in the blog about RAW conversion.

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papillon_65
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to tt321, 5 months ago

tt321 wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

Lumixdude wrote:

This proves categorically the faults with X-Trans, it creates blurry images which lack fine details. It's the number one reason I'll never own a Fuji camera until X-Trans has an off switch. Speaking of base ISO is irrelevant, X-Trans destroys images whether at base ISO or otherwise and from a technical perspective as it should be looked at to achieve what it does, it's not a good solution.

Perhaps if you're too lazy to care and you want to post jpegs out of the camera to facebook then you buy a Fuji camera.

You need to use the right raw processor with X trans files, Adobe isn't the way to go, you can get excellent results using the Fuji's, you just have to know what you're doing. It's very easy to get X-trans raw files and test this out. There are some very bad examples from the X-trans sensors all over the net, but plenty of good ones as well. Simon who is also an m4/3's user posted a very good article on his blog about the X-T1, I don't see anything to worry about from this camera here.

http://sgoldswoblog.com/2014/05/13/a-tale-of-extremes-fujifilm-x-t1/

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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
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A very nice read. Thanks. However, nothing in the blog about RAW conversion.

Simon uses Photo-ninja and rates it for X-trans, as do others, he pops up here now and again, I'm sure he'll verify that.

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rickreyn
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to Enir4, 5 months ago

I agree that ergonomically the E-M1 feels better than the NEX-7, but then there's all those MP and the bigger sensor! And if anyone of the hotshot pros gets anywhere near a smaller system, they seem to always gravitate to Fuji. Apparently only Fuji is socially acceptable to those doing video training for Kelby. I agree with one poster that talked about the quality of the lens, over the specs of the camera. I agree on that. Olympus and Panasonic have a lot to choose from, whereas I pulled my hair out trying to figure out what lens I wanted with the Nex-6 I picked up for less than $400. I gave up and sold it. I agree with another poster saying you can't win arguing gear. All I know is I'm taking pretty sharp photos with the EM-1 with only one lens, the best lens I've ever owned, and it's quite the handy system. As the guy in the Good Book said, all I know is I was blind and now I see!

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KENwck
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Re: MFT, Fuji and NEX
In reply to cptobvious, 5 months ago

cptobvious wrote:

You're comparing a prime that being stopped down to its sharpest aperture vs. a zoom that's stopped down less than a stop. For a fairer comparison, I think you should be using the Fuji 23mm f/1.4 at f/4.

it would be very interesting comparison!

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