"New" X-T1s

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
RicksAstro
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"New" X-T1s
6 months ago

I have been trying to get another X-T1 recently.   I've figured out part of the reason they come in and out of stock is that people have been either returning them and some retailers have been packing them up and selling as new.

First was Bestbuy a few weeks ago (via online).  Got the kit and it was obviously opened, cords a mess and lacked a battery!   Serial 41A03xxxx (pre button and light leak fix).  Returned it...

Next was Amazon last week.   Got the kit and the camera looked like a dog had been licking it...just an absolute mess.  There were actual lip marks on the LCD.   Serial 41A03xxx...returned it...

Finally, Kenmore had the body only.   Got it...perfect.   Clicky back buttons (NOT my imagination...they are far better).   Pristine.   Serial 42A01xxxx (note incremented second digit).  No light leak.   Keeper for sure!

I guess that's what happens when manufacturers announce a serial # range with issues combined with a short supply and generous return policies...there are massive returns and incentives to resell returns as new.

There's the "buy from a reputable dealer" thing, which in this case worked.   But I've had the same thing happen in the past with reputable dealers as well.

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Ed B
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to RicksAstro, 6 months ago

RicksAstro wrote:

I have been trying to get another X-T1 recently. I've figured out part of the reason they come in and out of stock is that people have been either returning them and some retailers have been packing them up and selling as new.

First was Bestbuy a few weeks ago (via online). Got the kit and it was obviously opened, cords a mess and lacked a battery! Serial 41A03xxxx (pre button and light leak fix). Returned it...

Next was Amazon last week. Got the kit and the camera looked like a dog had been licking it...just an absolute mess. There were actual lip marks on the LCD. Serial 41A03xxx...returned it...

Finally, Kenmore had the body only. Got it...perfect. Clicky back buttons (NOT my imagination...they are far better). Pristine. Serial 42A01xxxx (note incremented second digit). No light leak. Keeper for sure!

I guess that's what happens when manufacturers announce a serial # range with issues combined with a short supply and generous return policies...there are massive returns and incentives to resell returns as new.

There's the "buy from a reputable dealer" thing, which in this case worked. But I've had the same thing happen in the past with reputable dealers as well.

-- hide signature --

Some dealers do it????????

Any dealer that has a liberal return policy does it. They'd go out of business if they didn't.

Only cameras that have obvious defects with the packaging or minor scratches, etc are sold as open box and sold at a slightly reduced price.

Cameras that are used and returned in like new condition are repacked and resold as new.

Someone has to "suffer" for the liberal return policies and it's not going to be the retailers (unless they're dumber than dirt).

People who argue about this and don't believe it's true are simply part of the gullible American buying public. And, no, there are no laws in the U.S. that protect the consumer from this business practice. It's all part of the liberal, no questions asked, no restocking fee, return policies.

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Sabud
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to Ed B, 6 months ago

Ed B wrote:

RicksAstro wrote:

I have been trying to get another X-T1 recently. I've figured out part of the reason they come in and out of stock is that people have been either returning them and some retailers have been packing them up and selling as new.

First was Bestbuy a few weeks ago (via online). Got the kit and it was obviously opened, cords a mess and lacked a battery! Serial 41A03xxxx (pre button and light leak fix). Returned it...

Next was Amazon last week. Got the kit and the camera looked like a dog had been licking it...just an absolute mess. There were actual lip marks on the LCD. Serial 41A03xxx...returned it...

Finally, Kenmore had the body only. Got it...perfect. Clicky back buttons (NOT my imagination...they are far better). Pristine. Serial 42A01xxxx (note incremented second digit). No light leak. Keeper for sure!

I guess that's what happens when manufacturers announce a serial # range with issues combined with a short supply and generous return policies...there are massive returns and incentives to resell returns as new.

There's the "buy from a reputable dealer" thing, which in this case worked. But I've had the same thing happen in the past with reputable dealers as well.

-- hide signature --

Some dealers do it????????

Any dealer that has a liberal return policy does it. They'd go out of business if they didn't.

Only cameras that have obvious defects with the packaging or minor scratches, etc are sold as open box and sold at a slightly reduced price.

Cameras that are used and returned in like new condition are repacked and resold as new.

Someone has to "suffer" for the liberal return policies and it's not going to be the retailers (unless they're dumber than dirt).

People who argue about this and don't believe it's true are simply part of the gullible American buying public. And, no, there are no laws in the U.S. that protect the consumer from this business practice. It's all part of the liberal, no questions asked, no restocking fee, return policies.

I always demand 100% never used products for a full payment. If problems, skip the US and buy from Asia.

/Stephan

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dark13star
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to RicksAstro, 6 months ago

My first XE1 from Amazon had been opened. It's easy to tell with Fuji because there is a tape that loses its pattern when it is opened on the bag around the body.

I contacted Amazon, they overnighted me another one, and all was well.

I got an XE2 with dust under the sensor glass from Amazon and returned it. I put a note in the box explaining that the unit was defective and needed to be sent back to Fuji, not restocked. I have no idea if anyone heeded that advice. My next XE2 from Amazon was clean.

I sent an XT1 back to B&H for dust under the sensor glass. I asked if they restocked or sent back to Fuji and they assured me it would be marked as defective and sent back. I have no idea if it was.

Now I'm expecting another XT1 from Amazon tomorrow. First thing I will do is inspect it to ensure that it is new. The next thing I will do is shoot a blank wall with small aperture and inspect for dust. Fingers crossed.

Rich

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RicksAstro
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to Ed B, 6 months ago

Ed B wrote:

RicksAstro wrote:

I have been trying to get another X-T1 recently. I've figured out part of the reason they come in and out of stock is that people have been either returning them and some retailers have been packing them up and selling as new.

First was Bestbuy a few weeks ago (via online). Got the kit and it was obviously opened, cords a mess and lacked a battery! Serial 41A03xxxx (pre button and light leak fix). Returned it...

Next was Amazon last week. Got the kit and the camera looked like a dog had been licking it...just an absolute mess. There were actual lip marks on the LCD. Serial 41A03xxx...returned it...

Finally, Kenmore had the body only. Got it...perfect. Clicky back buttons (NOT my imagination...they are far better). Pristine. Serial 42A01xxxx (note incremented second digit). No light leak. Keeper for sure!

I guess that's what happens when manufacturers announce a serial # range with issues combined with a short supply and generous return policies...there are massive returns and incentives to resell returns as new.

There's the "buy from a reputable dealer" thing, which in this case worked. But I've had the same thing happen in the past with reputable dealers as well.

-- hide signature --

Some dealers do it????????

Any dealer that has a liberal return policy does it. They'd go out of business if they didn't.

Only cameras that have obvious defects with the packaging or minor scratches, etc are sold as open box and sold at a slightly reduced price.

Cameras that are used and returned in like new condition are repacked and resold as new.

Someone has to "suffer" for the liberal return policies and it's not going to be the retailers (unless they're dumber than dirt).

People who argue about this and don't believe it's true are simply part of the gullible American buying public. And, no, there are no laws in the U.S. that protect the consumer from this business practice. It's all part of the liberal, no questions asked, no restocking fee, return policies.

I didn't mean to imply that it's not common practice...I know it is.  If fact, I never mentioned that it was even an unacceptable practice for those dealers with good return policies.

The key phrase you mentioned is "returned in like new condition are repacked and resold as new."   For mine, one was missing a battery for goodness sake and, as I said, the other looked like it was licked by a dog or something.   The lens was covered in dust as well.   I'm guessing someone was beyond their return period and bought another new one so they could return their old one...didn't check the serials on the box.

I once bought a lens from my local "reputable" dealer with the wrong brand rear cap (Sigma vs. Canon) and they swore up and down that it was unopened despite me opening the box to inspect it after I purchased it in the store in front of them.  I'd rather they were honest about it, Like Henry P from B&H is on here.

I'm realistic on the stores with generous policies and won't normally automatically return an item if it looks new and tests out well.   But these weren't even close.

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ryan2007
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to RicksAstro, 6 months ago

This is why you buy cameras from camera stores especially when your spending over $1,000 just for a body.

If you were into expensive Swiss watches that cost thousands would you buy them from Amazon, a non authorized reseller of (name the brand) IWC, JLC, whatever or an actual Jeweler.  In short, non AD's file off the serial numbers from those costly swiss watches, but thats another story.

Spend the extra money if you have to and stick to B&H, Adorama (which I hate btw) and whatever other speciality camera store even if its local to your area.

Heck, I just got a toy p&s from Canon just to play, the SX170 for $150 new. nice little camera, good hand grip, from B&H.

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RicksAstro
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to ryan2007, 6 months ago

ryan2007 wrote:

This is why you buy cameras from camera stores especially when your spending over $1,000 just for a body.

If you were into expensive Swiss watches that cost thousands would you buy them from Amazon, a non authorized reseller of (name the brand) IWC, JLC, whatever or an actual Jeweler. In short, non AD's file off the serial numbers from those costly swiss watches, but thats another story.

Spend the extra money if you have to and stick to B&H, Adorama (which I hate btw) and whatever other speciality camera store even if its local to your area.

Heck, I just got a toy p&s from Canon just to play, the SX170 for $150 new. nice little camera, good hand grip, from B&H.

Actually, B&H and all the other dealers you mention will repackage returned (like new) goods as new.   Henry has stated as such here.   My local dealer (Normans) which has a great reputation has done the same, and they don't even have a great return policy.

That said, I don't think I would ever see 2 cameras that ridiculously "not new" from B&H...they would check them over and make sure they are at least clean and have all accessories.

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ryan2007
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to RicksAstro, 6 months ago

ryan2007 wrote:

This is why you buy cameras from camera stores especially when your spending over $1,000 just for a body.

If you were into expensive Swiss watches that cost thousands would you buy them from Amazon, a non authorized reseller of (name the brand) IWC, JLC, whatever or an actual Jeweler. In short, non AD's file off the serial numbers from those costly swiss watches, but thats another story.

Spend the extra money if you have to and stick to B&H, Adorama (which I hate btw) and whatever other speciality camera store even if its local to your area.

Heck, I just got a toy p&s from Canon just to play, the SX170 for $150 new. nice little camera, good hand grip, from B&H.

Actually, B&H and all the other dealers you mention will repackage returned (like new) goods as new. Henry has stated as such here. My local dealer (Normans) which has a great reputation has done the same, and they don't even have a great return policy.

That said, I don't think I would ever see 2 cameras that ridiculously "not new" from B&H...they would check them over and make sure they are at least clean and have all accessories.

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I think B&H has specific standards (published) how many exposures and how much video you can shoot and still return the camera as new.

This is the B&H codes if you link to the Used cameras:

I just entered the X100 just for a arbitrary example, you click on the grade B&H gives the camera and this is Key that appears. Yes, it is for cosmetic condition. With a digital camera all you can do is turn it on and take a picture to test it.

Point is B&H will say if you are buying an open box item, I am sure Amazon and Best Buy do not.

All Used Equipment is tested and sold in working order.

The following scale is for cosmetic condition only.

All Used Equipment is tested and sold in working order.

The following scale is for cosmetic condition only.

N Brand new/Never used - In original manufacturer's packaging

OB Open Box with full manufacturer warranty

D Never owned - Used for demonstration purposes only

R Refurbished by the Manufacturer to original company's specifications

10 Preowned equipment, but appears as new

9+ Shows little or no signs of wear

9 Shows signs of use, but very clean

8+ Shows moderate wear or finish marks

8 Well used - may exhibit "dings" or finish marks

7 Shows considerable amount of use - More than average wear

6 Useable, but has considerable optical or mechanical imperfections. Returnable, but our 90- Day warranty policy does not apply.

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Sabud
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to ryan2007, 6 months ago

ryan2007 wrote:

ryan2007 wrote:

This is why you buy cameras from camera stores especially when your spending over $1,000 just for a body.

If you were into expensive Swiss watches that cost thousands would you buy them from Amazon, a non authorized reseller of (name the brand) IWC, JLC, whatever or an actual Jeweler. In short, non AD's file off the serial numbers from those costly swiss watches, but thats another story.

Spend the extra money if you have to and stick to B&H, Adorama (which I hate btw) and whatever other speciality camera store even if its local to your area.

Heck, I just got a toy p&s from Canon just to play, the SX170 for $150 new. nice little camera, good hand grip, from B&H.

Actually, B&H and all the other dealers you mention will repackage returned (like new) goods as new. Henry has stated as such here. My local dealer (Normans) which has a great reputation has done the same, and they don't even have a great return policy.

That said, I don't think I would ever see 2 cameras that ridiculously "not new" from B&H...they would check them over and make sure they are at least clean and have all accessories.

-- hide signature --

I think B&H has specific standards (published) how many exposures and how much video you can shoot and still return the camera as new.

This is the B&H codes if you link to the Used cameras:

I just entered the X100 just for a arbitrary example, you click on the grade B&H gives the camera and this is Key that appears. Yes, it is for cosmetic condition. With a digital camera all you can do is turn it on and take a picture to test it.

Point is B&H will say if you are buying an open box item, I am sure Amazon and Best Buy do not.

All Used Equipment is tested and sold in working order.

The following scale is for cosmetic condition only.

All Used Equipment is tested and sold in working order.

The following scale is for cosmetic condition only.

OB Open Box with full manufacturer warranty

D Never owned - Used for demonstration purposes only

R Refurbished by the Manufacturer to original company's specifications

10 Preowned equipment, but appears as new

9+ Shows little or no signs of wear

9 Shows signs of use, but very clean

8+ Shows moderate wear or finish marks

8 Well used - may exhibit "dings" or finish marks

7 Shows considerable amount of use - More than average wea

6 Useable, but has considerable optical or mechanical imperfections. Returnable, but our 90- Day warranty policy does not apply.

N Brand new/Never used - In original manufacturer's packaging

I miss the very important statement: unopened. On ebay you can read: unused - unopened for new. How hard can it be!

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SaltLakeGuy
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to Sabud, 6 months ago

I've been dealing with this for years it seems. Even from B&H. However I found the trick with B&H to avoid not getting a factory packed fresh unit. I was told by a customer service rep at B&H to just be sure and request a "new not previously shipped" unit. They DO track shipments vial serial numbers and can tell if a certain serial numbered item has EVER been previously sent out. This way you  can be assured of a "not touched by anyone but the manufacturer" unit. Otherwise it's like a roll of the dice. I got a 55-200 OIS from B&H, and it came where I KNEW it had been opened before, as the white packet that comes to absorb the moisture was wrinkled up and left outside the packing. I elected this itme to keep it (which is rare) as it was otherwise perfect. The 23mm f1.4R I got from them was unwrinkled plastic wrap and the moisture pack was tight against the lens on the inside of the wrapping, which didn't even have a wrinkle (a  good sign off the bat). I have sent several items back to them in the past that were previously opened and in one case scratched. Stuff happens, but at least they make it right evey time. Norman Cameras years ago sent me a lens with a nice big old greasy french fry thumbprint right in the middle of the outer lens element. That went back and I'll never do business with them again.

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historianx
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to SaltLakeGuy, 6 months ago

I gave up on Amazon for high end purchases because of this bait (new in box) and switch (we'll send you returned stock) BS.  So now I just bite the sales tax bullet and order from my local cam shop like I did with my X100Sb.  Also, I noticed all this nonsense started when I obtained Prime membership.  No more, Amazon, I don't care if you're a sponsor on this site.  Your liberal return policies suck, and only create more problems down the road.

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RicksAstro
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to ryan2007, 6 months ago

ryan2007 wrote:

Point is B&H will say if you are buying an open box item, I am sure Amazon and Best Buy do not.

No, they will not, and Henry Posner said exactly that here on this forum.  If someone returns something saying they changed their mind, looks unscathed and has all the accessories, they will indeed repackage as new, not as an open box.   I don't even see a shutter actuation restriction like others have, which is only good for cameras with counters anyway.

I'm not faulting B&H for this...it's a necessary result of their generous return policy.   They wouldn't be in business otherwise.

My local camera store is worse than any of the online places as far as this issue goes.   Best buy has also been very bad for this.    I've actually had better luck with Amazon than most, and they have good customer service if they do.

You get what you pay for...if a store has a low price and unrestricted returns with no restocking fees, you are going to occasionally get open box items.   Just make sure they have good customer service and you have a lot of patience.

My point of this thread is to basically note that there right now seems to be a lot out there (or that I'm very, very unlucky).

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e268
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to RicksAstro, 6 months ago

I bought my X-E1 a year and half ago from a local store.  They will not let me put the battery in to test.  Returns in 7 days for exchange only, no refund.  With this kind of policy, I was guaranteed that it is a new camera.:-D  Not saying that I like to buy from them.  It is the only store in town who has one.

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photoreddi
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About B&H's return policy
In reply to ryan2007, 6 months ago

ryan2007 wrote:

ryan2007 wrote:

This is why you buy cameras from camera stores especially when your spending over $1,000 just for a body.

If you were into expensive Swiss watches that cost thousands would you buy them from Amazon, a non authorized reseller of (name the brand) IWC, JLC, whatever or an actual Jeweler. In short, non AD's file off the serial numbers from those costly swiss watches, but thats another story.

Spend the extra money if you have to and stick to B&H, Adorama (which I hate btw) and whatever other speciality camera store even if its local to your area.

Heck, I just got a toy p&s from Canon just to play, the SX170 for $150 new. nice little camera, good hand grip, from B&H.

Actually, B&H and all the other dealers you mention will repackage returned (like new) goods as new. Henry has stated as such here. My local dealer (Normans) which has a great reputation has done the same, and they don't even have a great return policy.

That said, I don't think I would ever see 2 cameras that ridiculously "not new" from B&H...they would check them over and make sure they are at least clean and have all accessories.

-- hide signature --

I think B&H has specific standards (published) how many exposures and how much video you can shoot and still return the camera as new.

That used to be B&H's policy although I think that they occasionally made exceptions and would let customers return a camera that had more than 200 shutter clicks, provided a good reason was given. That policy was lifted last year, at least 9 months ago. Here are a couple of quotes from henryp :

I've purchased regularly from B&H and been happy with them for a long time, but stopped buying cameras from them when they changed their return policy to refuse returns of cameras with more than 200 shutter clicks.

Just recently, I took a look at their return policy, and I can no longer find that restriction. I did some quick searching, here and elsewhere on the web, and I haven't found any mention of a change in their return policy.

Can anyone confirm that they have, in fact, changed the policy?

Yes. You are correct. The restriction has been lifted. Each return will be evaluated individually.

...

Unless I'm missing something in their return policy, they reserve the right to charge a restocking fee if the return conditions are not met, which are still very liberal. It looks like they eliminated the 200 shutter actuation limit for cameras, but the rest seems the same AFAIR - complete satisfaction, 30 days to return the purchase, etc. Did I miss something?

That pretty much sums it up. We reserve the right to charge a restock fee but rarely do so. In the infrequent situation where we would, the customer is informed beforehand. A restock fee might be applied, hypothetically, when the returned item shows sufficient signs of use it has to be sold as an open-box or used item at a lower price. As I said, it happens very rarely. We would not normally charge a restock fee for a product being returned due to our error or an out-of-the-box defect.

...

(I was considering a referbed D800 but was not quite sure and decided to wait until black friday) But now there was mention of a restocking fee, it seems I will not be buying any more lenses or anything anymore.

A refurbished D800 would come to us from Nikon USA and then sold to you. If upon inspection you wished to return it for exchange or refund I cannot offhand think of a normal situation for which a restock fee would be applicable.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3536518#forum-post-52078886

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EricWN
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to Sabud, 6 months ago

Sabud wrote:

Ed B wrote:

RicksAstro wrote:

I have been trying to get another X-T1 recently. I've figured out part of the reason they come in and out of stock is that people have been either returning them and some retailers have been packing them up and selling as new.

First was Bestbuy a few weeks ago (via online). Got the kit and it was obviously opened, cords a mess and lacked a battery! Serial 41A03xxxx (pre button and light leak fix). Returned it...

Next was Amazon last week. Got the kit and the camera looked like a dog had been licking it...just an absolute mess. There were actual lip marks on the LCD. Serial 41A03xxx...returned it...

Finally, Kenmore had the body only. Got it...perfect. Clicky back buttons (NOT my imagination...they are far better). Pristine. Serial 42A01xxxx (note incremented second digit). No light leak. Keeper for sure!

I guess that's what happens when manufacturers announce a serial # range with issues combined with a short supply and generous return policies...there are massive returns and incentives to resell returns as new.

There's the "buy from a reputable dealer" thing, which in this case worked. But I've had the same thing happen in the past with reputable dealers as well.

-- hide signature --

Some dealers do it????????

Any dealer that has a liberal return policy does it. They'd go out of business if they didn't.

Only cameras that have obvious defects with the packaging or minor scratches, etc are sold as open box and sold at a slightly reduced price.

Cameras that are used and returned in like new condition are repacked and resold as new.

Someone has to "suffer" for the liberal return policies and it's not going to be the retailers (unless they're dumber than dirt).

People who argue about this and don't believe it's true are simply part of the gullible American buying public. And, no, there are no laws in the U.S. that protect the consumer from this business practice. It's all part of the liberal, no questions asked, no restocking fee, return policies.

I always demand 100% never used products for a full payment. If problems, skip the US and buy from Asia.

/Stephan

But in that case, you'll potentially have long shipping times, customs duties upon import and with some camera manufacturers warranty issues as well.

Please correct me here if I'm wrong, but have we not had cases where a camera from a different region would not get service in another geo?

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baobob
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Re: "New" X-T1s
In reply to RicksAstro, 6 months ago

My XT1 is one of the first series

I sentit to Fuji for light leak fix and it came back after 2 days with the rear pad clicking perfectly as well

From what I heard they changed the blind cushion. That was initially too firm..

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