Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.

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johtuomi
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Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
3 months ago

Sad lightroom5, the same sync bug as with the Leica X1 / LR3 few years ago. If you are using shadow - hihglight, it does not sync pictures right. Capture One works, fine.

I thought a long time with my X1, that it is due to the camera, but it was the poor lightroom ... here is test, the same pictures developed with C1 and LR5, camera Sony A7r, all manual settings.

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Dandrewk
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

I have no idea what you mean about "sync issues" here, nor why you would think settings from one post processing application would be the same for any other.

I've used LR5, extensively, with the A7.  No issues.

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seachicken2000
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

johtuomi wrote:

Sad lightroom5, the same sync bug as with the Leica X1 / LR3 few years ago. If you are using shadow - hihglight, it does not sync pictures right. Capture One works, fine.

Hi, I just did this:

  1. Highlights +50, Shadows +50 on one image
  2. Select the adjusted image and another image in the Library module
  3. Sync settings (with Basic Tone->Highlights, and Basic Tone->Shadows checked)

The highlight/shadow settings were synced correctly. This is with Lightroom 5.4 (OS X, fully updated), and an A7r image (RAW converted to DNG on import).

So it seems to work fine for me, unless I am misunderstanding your problem.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

Ok, I would like to see. Can someone shoot panorama, something where is darker area, like in my panorama examble, manual settings and if you have A7R and then adjust one image and then synchronize with other images.

With LR3 & canon 1Dsmk3 wasn't that problem, but with leica x1 & LR3 was until some update and now with sony.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to seachicken2000, 3 months ago

seachicken2000 wrote:

johtuomi wrote:

Sad lightroom5, the same sync bug as with the Leica X1 / LR3 few years ago. If you are using shadow - hihglight, it does not sync pictures right. Capture One works, fine.

Hi, I just did this:

  1. Highlights +50, Shadows +50 on one image
  2. Select the adjusted image and another image in the Library module
  3. Sync settings (with Basic Tone->Highlights, and Basic Tone->Shadows checked)

The highlight/shadow settings were synced correctly. This is with Lightroom 5.4 (OS X, fully updated), and an A7r image (RAW converted to DNG on import).

So it seems to work fine for me, unless I am misunderstanding your problem.

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Hi

and it's not problem with same kind of picture, only if I shoot panorama and there are darker parrts in image what cover most of the image (sorry my english : ) but see my examble. Capture one did those right lightroom dont.

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Nordstjernen
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

johtuomi wrote:

Ok, I would like to see. Can someone shoot panorama, something where is darker area, like in my panorama examble, manual settings and if you have A7R and then adjust one image and then synchronize with other images.

Sure there isn't any auto adjustment going on with your Lightroom?

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seachicken2000
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

johtuomi wrote:

Hi

and it's not problem with same kind of picture, only if I shoot panorama and there are darker parrts in image what cover most of the image (sorry my english : ) but see my examble. Capture one did those right lightroom dont.

Hi,

I think I see your problem now. I took 2 images that were part of a panorama, both shot at ISO100 f/8 1/250s. One was mostly sky, the other mostly building. Highlight/shadow adjustments affected the images differently.

The syncing works just fine. The same adjustments get made to both images. The problem is that the same adjustments give you images that don't match?

I guess the only solution is to stitch the images first, and then adjust them.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to Nordstjernen, 3 months ago

Nordstjernen wrote:

johtuomi wrote:

Ok, I would like to see. Can someone shoot panorama, something where is darker area, like in my panorama examble, manual settings and if you have A7R and then adjust one image and then synchronize with other images.

Sure there isn't any auto adjustment going on with your Lightroom?

No, if I use synchronize all settings, in some chases it does it wrong to pictures what have much dark areas. I can put raw files to server if someone want to test, when I get home fron Japan.
And same was with X1 before some update LR3. I did hunderes of panoramas of panoramas with X1 and many months I thought that it was Leicas fault and I must correct and adjust many image manually, ybut after update all went well. (sorry my english : ) I have lots of documents of that.
I'm now in japan, I just sold my canon 1dsmk3 (no update for 5 years) and bought sony A7R. I'm just wondering that if I do lot on panoramas and prosess those with LR and if those went worng it just does lot of extra job. All those images C1 did well.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to seachicken2000, 3 months ago

For examble this went just fine. (these has done with Mac Book Air and quite quickly developed)
5 images panorama, stitched with PS.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to seachicken2000, 3 months ago

seachicken2000 wrote:

The same adjustments get made to both images. The problem is that the same adjustments give you images that don't match?

Yes in some images, where contrast is strong compare to others.

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Dandrewk
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

johtuomi wrote:

seachicken2000 wrote:

The same adjustments get made to both images. The problem is that the same adjustments give you images that don't match?

Yes in some images, where contrast is strong compare to others.

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When you press the sync button, it gives you a bunch of settings that you choose to sync.  Are all of them checked?

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CraigArnold
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

First stich, then adjust.

The algorthims are adaptive, so you won't be able to stich after sync and get them to match.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to Dandrewk, 3 months ago

Dandrewk wrote:

When you press the sync button, it gives you a bunch of settings that you choose to sync. Are all of them checked?

usually all, but crop.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to CraigArnold, 3 months ago

CraigArnold wrote:

First stich, then adjust.

The algorthims are adaptive, so you won't be able to stich after sync and get them to match.

I have done thousands of panoramas, I first develope raw images, what include adjust... low contrast 16 bit high DR tiff, etc. then stitch and then photoshop. There is no problem with LR4.

Here is link to + 200 images macropanorama, stitch, stack
http://cameratuning.fi/pages/0037.htm

360° panoramas (4 years old demo site)
http://virtualtour.fi

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

Okay, one more test shot / develope. Capture one did all right. Lightroom dont. Explain that? and I have use lightroom since vers. 3, there is no problem with LR4 (I have to use DNG converter with A7r). I just bought MacBookAir and I loaded trial of both C1 and LR5.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

I do lot of panoramas, there can be thousand images of one day and I just develope low res. jpg of all and I allways first do just quick lowRes autostich, autocrop... images of those, then if somebody is interest of it I do HiRes etc. what ever wanted.

So it's problem for me if I have to adjust images manuall, like it seem now in lightroom. C1 works well.

So in this case C1 pano works well, Lightroom pano will would faild and agian I have use light room since vers. 3 and it was same problem with LR3 & Leica X1. So just for those who might also use A7R for making panoramas, it might not work well... anyway I dont know your workflows, so : )

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Dandrewk
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

Simply use PTGUI with maximum blending, and all your problems are solved.

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johtuomi
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to Dandrewk, 3 months ago

Dandrewk wrote:

Simply use PTGUI with maximum blending, and all your problems are solved.

No and that has nothing to do with my problem, I know how to stitch and blend and PTGUI blend is not the best, it's ok.

Anyway first develope, then stitch, if you shoot raw. I only shoot raw. And my problem is, that I want those developed equally and that might be LR bug, because it works on captureone.

And for me it's a problem if synchronize settings wont work. Blending does not correct wronly developed images...
I try to find has anyone else found same problem. It does not shown in all LR images, there must be contrast, dark/light variation in pictures, then is come to seen if you sync equally shooted images... so if you adjust image one by one, it works well. I can correct manyually those failed syncs, but it's not what I want.

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Dandrewk
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

johtuomi wrote:

Dandrewk wrote:

Simply use PTGUI with maximum blending, and all your problems are solved.

No and that has nothing to do with my problem, I know how to stitch and blend and PTGUI blend is not the best, it's ok.

Anyway first develope, then stitch, if you shoot raw. I only shoot raw. And my problem is, that I want those developed equally and that might be LR bug, because it works on captureone.

And for me it's a problem if synchronize settings wont work. Blending does not correct wronly developed images...
I try to find has anyone else found same problem. It does not shown in all LR images, there must be contrast, dark/light variation in pictures, then is come to seen if you sync equally shooted images... so if you adjust image one by one, it works well. I can correct manyually those failed syncs, but it's not what I want.

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From your response, I sincerely doubt you understand the concept of blending within stitching software.  Besides hiding seams, it -should- carefully blend together images with light falloff and color balance etc., to the point of making them blend seamlessly.

With regards to PTGUI, there are several blending plug-ins that will probably work better than the native PTGUI.  Each has several advanced options.  If you had PTGUI and used Enblend, you may be happier with the results.

I have done extensive stitches and never run into an issue that you describe.  I am certain this issue is not anything to do with a "poor Lightroom" bug.

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rrr_hhh
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Re: Lightroom 5 & A7r bug.
In reply to johtuomi, 3 months ago

This behaviour is not new to LR5. I has been introduced with process 2012, may be you never noticed it because you never had those huge contrast from one picture of the composite to another.

Here is what Michael Frye says about the new process 2012 :

Image-Adaptive Behavior
All six Basic panel Tone controls are now imageadaptive.That is, they auto-adjust their behavior
internally based on image content. (...) I’ll describe in detail how each of the six tools work, but there are two image-adaptive behaviors that can be more obvious than others and sometimes disconcerting to those who are used to older versions of Lightroom, so I’ll discuss them here: automatic highlight recovery and automatically adjusted black points.

Automatic Highlight Recovery
With Raw files, it’s possible to recover detail in seemingly overexposed highlights, as long as they’re not too overexposed. In earlier versions of Lightroom this was done with the Recovery tool. In Lightroom 4 and 5, highlight recovery is automatic. When you view a just-imported image in the 2012 process, the highlights have already been recovered, if possible (and if necessary).

Automatic Black Point
On the other end of the tonal scale, if an image has large amounts of pure black, the new process automatically adjusts the black point to increase shadow detail. Here’s a comparison showing an image in the 2010 process (Lightroom 3) at Adobe’s default settings (C) that has substantial areas of black (shown in blue), alongside the same image at the default settings in the 2012 process (Lightroom 4 and 5) (D), where you can see that the amount of black has been reduced automatically.

(This is an extract from his E-book :http://www.michaelfrye.com/landscape-photography-blog/landscapes-in-lightroom-5/ p. 11-12).

and you may find free information about that on his blog

That said, I have made several panos recently, using my A7r and didn't encounter that problem, but I didn't make vertical pano, only horizontal pano, where it is easier to have highlights in the sky and shadows near the ground. To meter the light, depending on the situation, I make a compromise between the main point of interest in the pano (which I want well exposed) and try to pick a frame where there are both highlights and shadows and which I want to render in middle tones. After reading the exposure values, I set the camera in manual mode and fix the focus and the WB as well. I had some pano, where the first picture on the right was very dark (only folliage), but it turned right in the final pano.

For postprocessing, I use the same workflow as you : import in LR, pick the frame representing both the main spot of interest and the best mix of highlights and shadows and adjust that frame, then I synch everything and look at the different pictures to see whether there are too many blocked shadows or burned highlights and fine tune. I use the lens profile to avoid vignetting and other distorsion. Then finally, I assemble them using Microsoft ICE (a PC app). A surprisingly good program which at that is free and allows you to upload huge composite pictures on the Photosynth.net. Compared to others the programm is very rudimentary, everthing is automated, but it is the one giving me the best results. In particular, the tones are very well adjusted, each frame blending well with the other.

To sum up, I think that the only cure to the adaptative behaviour of LR is to either avoid situations where the different frames are totally differently lighted, or to use another software like you did with Capture One.

PS : you can see some of my panos at Photosynth.net. They were just casual tests and shot handheld. I just wanted to see what the A7r can do. I'll have to return with a tripod in order to get better results. Still, I'm amazed at both the A7r and the Microsoft Ice app. (if you have Window 7 you can download it for free).

Here is one :

http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=8802f837-2e43-437a-a16b-4e12ed17eb41

I metered for the light in the middle of the pano a little on the right. On the left, the slope was rather dark compared to the rest, this is why I didn't take a meter reading from there.

(the panos downloaded since April 2014 are all from the A7r. Earlier ones were taken with an Olympus E-M5 or a Canon 6D).

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