Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue

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ShutterWorth
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Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
4 months ago

Hi, I am sort of a newbie to the photography world and technical stuff. But I will try and explain my issue best as possible.

I have the Nikon D600 and have only used these 2 lenses on it. Rokinon 14mm and 35mm, both Cine lenses. This of course means that it has a smooth aperture ring.

I usually shoot at Aperture Priority mode, only adjusting the Aperture ring on the lens and setting ISO and WB. I've never been able to adjust exposure any other way, and to be honest I prefer it that way. When I turn the aperture ring, the same aperture setting the lens is at, gets displayed on camera.

My photos have always been correctly exposed, but lately its doing something very strange, on both my lenses. I'll use my 14mm as example:

At F2.8, at ISO 200 and WB Auto, my camera chooses a shutter speed of 1/25s and my photos are now slightly under exposed. Turning the aperture ring to F22, the shutter speed are now at 3 seconds, which completely over exposes my photos.

Switching to Manual Mode, I use the exposure meter in the viewfinder, and it suggests the same values, with the same results.

I have now started looking at the actual iris of my lenses. Detached from the camera, the iris opens and closes nicely and smoothly between F2.8 - F22. When set at F22, I can see the iris opening and closing when I push the lever at the back of the lens. But as soon as I attach the lens to the camera, the iris gets pushed open and stays open, regardless of what aperture the lens is set. When I move the aperture ring, it changes the F values on the camera but it doesn't look like the iris opens and closes. I'm not sure if it's supposed to though... I was under the impression that it has always opened when on camera, but I have now read elsewhere that I am only supposed to set the lens at F22 and only use the front dial to change aperture values, which sounds strange to me, as I don't think I have ever been able to do that!

I can play around with some settings to get my shots correctly exposed at around F2.8 (or F1.4 on my 35mm) But anything smaller, all the way up to F22 gets increasingly harder and it's impossible to do any long exposure shots.

So is this a problem with my lenses or should I have Nikon take a look at my camera?

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Nikon D600
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MRM4350
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

When a lens is mounted on the camera it will be at maximum aperture (f/2.8). It stops down to the selected aperture when the photo is taken (or the DOF preview is pressed). With a manual lens you can only shoot in 'A' (aperture priority), or 'M' modes, and you must select the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens, the camera cannot select the aperture.

Now that the technical details are out of the way, What metering mode are you using? Matrix, Center Weighted, or Spot.

When using manual mode centering the meter does not mean you are going to get the correct exposure.

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to MRM4350, 4 months ago

"MRM4350 wrote:

When a lens is mounted on the camera it will be at maximum aperture (f/2.8). It stops down to the selected aperture when the photo is taken (or the DOF preview is pressed). With a manual lens you can only shoot in 'A' (aperture priority), or 'M' modes, and you must select the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens, the camera cannot select the aperture.

Now that the technical details are out of the way, What metering mode are you using? Matrix, Center Weighted, or Spot.

When using manual mode centering the meter does not mean you are going to get the correct exposure.

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Hi Michael,

Yes that's what I thought. I have only been able to change aperture on the lens itself and it's always done a pretty good job and finding the right exposure. Now however, the metering is all off.

I was told this on another forum, which was the first time I heard something like this:

"You need to leave your lens aperture ring alone, setting it at the smallest aperture (f/22). Then use the control wheels on the camera to modify your aperture setting."

Metering is at Matrix mode, also looked at bracketing which is set at 0.

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michaeladawson
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to MRM4350, 4 months ago

MRM4350 wrote:

When a lens is mounted on the camera it will be at maximum aperture (f/2.8). It stops down to the selected aperture when the photo is taken (or the DOF preview is pressed). With a manual lens you can only shoot in 'A' (aperture priority), or 'M' modes, and you must select the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens, the camera cannot select the aperture.

It depends on what you mean by "manual lens".  Most people mean manual focus lenses.  Manual focus lenses can either be chipped or not chipped.  A chipped lens will allow the aperture to be controlled by the camera, you do not have to use the aperture ring.  You can choose whether to use the aperture ring or the camera command dial by a setting in the custom menus.

Most of the new Samyang / Rokinon lenses for Nikon mount coming out these days have a CPU chip in them and can have the aperture controlled by the camera (set aperture ring to f/22) or by the aperture ring.

The exposures indicated by the camera in the two cases seem correct.  That is to say, if the camera said f/2.8 at 1/25s and the exposure came out correct then f/22 at 3s seems like the correct reading.  So the most obvious question then becomes "did the aperture blades close when you pressed the shutter?" This is easy enough to test.  Simply set the lens to f/22 and look into the lens when you press the shutter.  It should be easy to see the aperture blades close.

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TOF guy
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

"You need to leave your lens aperture ring alone, setting it at the smallest aperture (f/22). Then use the control wheels on the camera to modify your aperture setting."

It does not apply for lens on which the aperture must be set manually but only to non-G lens for which the camera can control the aperture.

You may wonder why the camera checks that you set the lens to the smallest aperture (it displays the FEE message otherwise). The smallest aperture requirement is a result of the design of the mechanism by which the camera moves the aperture ring: the camera can not close the aperture ring down further than the value set on the ring. So for instance if you had an f1.8 lens set at f4, the camera could change the aperture anywhere between f1.8 and f4 but not f5.6 etc. even if the lens support smaller apertures than f4.

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Carsten Pauer 2
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

But as soon as I attach the lens to the camera, the iris gets pushed open and stays open, regardless of what aperture the lens is set. When I move the aperture ring, it changes the F values on the camera but it doesn't look like the iris opens and closes. I'm not sure if it's supposed to though...

That is normal for a Nikon Mount Lens with a Aperture-Ring.
Here a Samyang Lens, while i push the DOF Button.

You can See that the Iris is open and when i push the DOF Button the IRIS is closing to the selected Aperture...

I was under the impression that it has always opened when on camera,

Yes, that is the normal Lens Status on a Nikon Camera.

but I have now read elsewhere that I am only supposed to set the lens at F22 and only use the front dial to change aperture values, which sounds strange to me, as I don't think I have ever been able to do that!

That is right for normal DSLR Lenses, but You use a VDSLR Lens.

So is this a problem with my lenses or should I have Nikon take a look at my camera?

No, it's You.

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to michaeladawson, 4 months ago

michaeladawson wrote:

MRM4350 wrote:

When a lens is mounted on the camera it will be at maximum aperture (f/2.8). It stops down to the selected aperture when the photo is taken (or the DOF preview is pressed). With a manual lens you can only shoot in 'A' (aperture priority), or 'M' modes, and you must select the aperture using the aperture ring on the lens, the camera cannot select the aperture.

It depends on what you mean by "manual lens". Most people mean manual focus lenses. Manual focus lenses can either be chipped or not chipped. A chipped lens will allow the aperture to be controlled by the camera, you do not have to use the aperture ring. You can choose whether to use the aperture ring or the camera command dial by a setting in the custom menus.

Most of the new Samyang / Rokinon lenses for Nikon mount coming out these days have a CPU chip in them and can have the aperture controlled by the camera (set aperture ring to f/22) or by the aperture ring.

The exposures indicated by the camera in the two cases seem correct. That is to say, if the camera said f/2.8 at 1/25s and the exposure came out correct then f/22 at 3s seems like the correct reading. So the most obvious question then becomes "did the aperture blades close when you pressed the shutter?" This is easy enough to test. Simply set the lens to f/22 and look into the lens when you press the shutter. It should be easy to see the aperture blades close.

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Mike Dawson

My lenses are not chipped, probably because it's the Cine versions. Which would explain then why I have not been able to control aperture on the camera.

I did a quick test to see if I can see the aperture blades close when I press the shutter. Nope... looks like it stays open at its widest at F2.8 and F1.4 on my 35mm.

I really believe something has changed. It's like the lens stays open at F1.4, even when the camera the aperture ring is set at F22. So the camera thinks I'm taking a photo at F22 when in actual fact it stays at its widest aperture, which is why my images are over exposed. Like I said, it hasn't done this before.

I just remembered something else. In video mode, even while recording I used to be able to control aperture with the lens.

The day after I got the camera I made this video, the very first video I have done with it, and here you can see very well at around 35 secs when I turned the aperture ring:

http://vimeo.com/63694710

I just tried this again and nothing happens now when I turn the aperture ring.

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to Carsten Pauer 2, 4 months ago

Carsten Pauer 2 wrote:

But as soon as I attach the lens to the camera, the iris gets pushed open and stays open, regardless of what aperture the lens is set. When I move the aperture ring, it changes the F values on the camera but it doesn't look like the iris opens and closes. I'm not sure if it's supposed to though...

That is normal for a Nikon Mount Lens with a Aperture-Ring.
Here a Samyang Lens, while i push the DOF Button.

You can See that the Iris is open and when i push the DOF Button the IRIS is closing to the selected Aperture...

I was under the impression that it has always opened when on camera,

Yes, that is the normal Lens Status on a Nikon Camera.

but I have now read elsewhere that I am only supposed to set the lens at F22 and only use the front dial to change aperture values, which sounds strange to me, as I don't think I have ever been able to do that!

That is right for normal DSLR Lenses, but You use a VDSLR Lens.

So is this a problem with my lenses or should I have Nikon take a look at my camera?

No, it's You.

Carsten, thanks for that video showing you pressing the DOF button! I haven't tried that yet until now, it does nothing... I can hear a sound inside, but the iris is not closing. That really shows me that there is a problem, it's now just a matter of determining if it's on the lens or my camera. Would be a strange coincidence if it's the lens because both are doing the same.

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Robin Casady
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

Have you set the non-CPU lens setting in the Setup Menu? That is important for Matrix metering.

Have you set f9 to Aperture Ring?

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to Robin Casady, 4 months ago

Robin Casady wrote:

Have you set the non-CPU lens setting in the Setup Menu? That is important for Matrix metering.

Have you set f9 to Aperture Ring?

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Robin Casady
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Yes, the I've set both lenses at the NON-CPU setting. It was one of the first things I did.

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afoton
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to Robin Casady, 4 months ago

Robin Casady wrote:

Have you set the non-CPU lens setting in the Setup Menu? That is important for Matrix metering.

That doesn't matter for the closing of the aperture.

Have you set f9 to Aperture Ring?

That is just for using the aperture ring on lenses with cpu. For lenses without cpu, you have to use the aperture ring, and the camera know that.

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Rick_Hunter
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

The aperture control mechanism in the camera is probably busted. Have it serviced by nikon.

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DANdeMAN
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

Did you check if the DOF lever on the camera is working?

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to Rick_Hunter, 4 months ago

Rick_Hunter wrote:

The aperture control mechanism in the camera is probably busted. Have it serviced by nikon.

That sounds like the most reasonable explanation to me. Won't be able to get to them for a few weeks, but as soon as I can, I will do that. Thanks!

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to Rick_Hunter, 4 months ago

Rick_Hunter wrote:

The aperture control mechanism in the camera is probably busted. Have it serviced by nikon.

I did a search and found this:

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/06/some-nikon-d600-dslrs-not-closing-to-the-apertures-theyre-supposed-to/

Yikes!

Seems like a widespread problem with the D600... And this whole time I was worried about the dust/oil sensor issue. Not too happy to be honest

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ShutterWorth
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to DANdeMAN, 4 months ago

DANdeMAN wrote:

Did you check if the DOF lever on the camera is working?

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D800E "The Monster" (07-2012)

Are you referring to the lever that sets the aperture inside the camera?

It looks like this could be my problem:

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/06/some-nikon-d600-dslrs-not-closing-to-the-apertures-theyre-supposed-to/

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Robin Casady
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Re: Full Manual Lenses, does anyone have experience with Rokinon/Samyang? Exposure Issue
In reply to ShutterWorth, 4 months ago

ShutterWorth wrote:

Rick_Hunter wrote:

The aperture control mechanism in the camera is probably busted. Have it serviced by nikon.

I did a search and found this:

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/06/some-nikon-d600-dslrs-not-closing-to-the-apertures-theyre-supposed-to/

Yikes!

Seems like a widespread problem with the D600... And this whole time I was worried about the dust/oil sensor issue. Not too happy to be honest

Nikon has been replacing defective D600 if they come in for repair too many times. Perhaps you will get a D610 out of it.

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