OMD with more MP?

Started 5 months ago | Questions
1943Mike
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OMD with more MP?
5 months ago

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

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1943Mike

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Pete_CSCS
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In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

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1943Mike

Olympus is raising the resolution slowly with their m4/3rds cameras.  It took them years to go from 12 - 16 MPs.  With better sensors and better processing they will get to 24 MPs in this sensor size but it will take many years.

IMHO.

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Steve_
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sensor technology isn't there yet
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

Given that m43 enjoys the latest in sensor technology and is still noisier at base ISO than competing 16MP and 24MP APS-C designs, I think it will take another round of sensor improvements before 24MP is workable on m43. Even the 24MP APS-C sensors have a larger pixel pitch than do 16MP m43s ones.

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Anders W
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Re: OMD with more MP?
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

Yes, in contrast to the two persons who already replied, I think it is perfectly reasonable to expect a 24 MP (or thereabout) sensor in an MFT camera in a reasonably near future, say within the next year or so. The signal-noise performance of current sensor technology is already sufficiently good to make that perfectly meaningful. Consider for example the 20 MP BSI sensor in the Sony RX100 and RX100 II, which is about half the size of an MFT sensor. Just put two of those together, and you'd have a pretty nice 40 MP MFT sensor.

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Guy Parsons
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Re: OMD with more MP?
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

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1943Mike

The 16MP sensor is way ahead of 35mm film so 24MP is getting into medium format film territory and is a bit unnecessary for normal screen viewing or for averagely large prints that will be examined closely.

Marketing of course is another animal and we will see 24MP eventually and that despite Olympus declaring that "12MP is all you need" (and they are right).

Even the rather pointless Ultra HD TVs being pushed now are only 8MP, so why is 24MP needed?

Regards...... Guy

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NowHearThis
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Eventually, but it may be later rather than sooner.
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say: no.  I'd bet it'll be 2 years before we hear of a 24mp (or greater) sensor M43.

I don't think they'll put a sensor like that in anything but an E-M1 replacement  to start with.  No facts, just my own guess.

Given the high praise for the E-M10 over at Imaging Resource and the fact that they said you can make great 24"x36" prints at base ISO, and pleasing 16"x20" prints at ISO1600, I for one won't see to upgrade from an E-M10 (when I buy it here soon) if the biggest difference/"improvement" is just MP count.  95% of my biggest prints are only 16x20 and that's when I shoot at base ISO.  I've done a few 20x30, and a couple 24x36, but my favorite print size is 16"x20".  The M43 sensor is close perfect for that type of aspect ratio (it doesn't have to be exactly 5:4, the 4:3 give me a little wiggle room when cropping to 5:4 and I only lose 1MP, that's a fair trade IMO).

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MatsP
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Re: OMD with more MP?
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

Yes, sooner thsn many of you think. I believe.

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amalric
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Re: OMD with more MP?
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

Difficult to say unless one refers to Sony, the sensor maker.

Now a year, or more ago the NEX7 sported a 24Mpx and some reviewers noticed that it had less resolution than the earlier 16 Mpx.

I find symptomatic that this year Sony has spread his 24 Mpx on a FF35 sensor, instead  of the APC of the Nex7.

My guess is that cropped are meeting limits to growth, perhaps due to diffraction or else.

Am.

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Simon Cowell
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Do we really need it?
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

Of course zooming and cropping is better with more mp but I would like to see a 8-10mp Olympus with current sensor technology.

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Alessandro63
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Re: Do we really need it?
In reply to Simon Cowell, 5 months ago

Simon Cowell wrote:

Of course zooming and cropping is better with more mp but I would like to see a 8-10mp Olympus with current sensor technology.

With a base iso quality comparable to the venerable E-1, whose files are still unsurpassed by these MP cramped sensors...

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Jorginho
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? 32 Mpixel seems really feasable already
In reply to Steve_, 5 months ago

Look at the Sony RX 100-II cam (sensor). It is as good as the good mFT sensors when it comes to DR, tonality and colour sensitivity. Noise is about a stop behind. Such  pixeldensity would translate into a 39 MPixel mFT cam. Interesting for landscapers and may be macro photographers already.

Suppose we would make it a 32 MPixel sensor:

1) Noise would be about 1/2 stop behind current mFT sensor, everything else would remain the same (with Sony 1"tech, which Panny also seems to be able to reach).
2) As said: great for landscaping, everything that demands detail
3) Lenses will be outresolved (the not so good ones..) I think (unsure)
4) Demanding more processing power
5) I stil think this does sell better, so for marketing purposes etc this might be smart too.

1) Noise. this is just above 6400*4800 pixels. Downsize 5000*3750 Pixels (18-19 Mpixel) or so and you'll be fine I think.
3) This is purely based on what I saw with the NEX7, but there might be (much) more to it
4) Sony a6000 does 11 FPS with focustracking (and quite well). That is 24 MPixel. So if we can do this in a lineair way it wouldget us 8,5 FPS. Would rival EM1/Gh4. So 6 FPS with trakcing would be nice if we would put this in the elusive G7..

I am no expert, so I might be wrong and see things a bit to optimistic. But if the above is close to reality I would like to have such a cam for landscaping, inthe hope that the 12-35 and 20 mm 1.7 are not outresolved that easy...

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Jorginho
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Olympus has little to say here.
In reply to Pete_CSCS, 5 months ago

They do not produce any sensors. It is up to Panny and Sony, although Oly can probably ask for such a development as it buys a lot of them....

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s_grins
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I'd like to see Panasonic with 20 Mpx n/t
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago
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Camera in bag tends to stay in bag...

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Steve_
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feasible within noise constraints
In reply to Jorginho, 5 months ago

Most users don't realize how noisy m43 sensor are in DSLR terms because there's a lot of NR being applied to the JPEGs. But once you compare to good APS-C output in LR the rather dramatic increase in noise at base ISO is apparent. Fortunately Olympus and Panasonic has filtered what is possible through a recognition that IQ must compete with DSLRs before the platform is tractable.

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bahamot
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No and hopefully they wont ...
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

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1943Mike

Instead improve sensor's SNR.

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TrapperJohn
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Fix the noise first
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

Something I wasn't pleased to discover in going from EM5 to EM1 was: the EM1 has worse noise characteristics in very low light situations, like night sky shots. The noise is more prevalent, and the noise spots are larger. That convinced me to hang on to my EM5.

Before they add MP, they need to be sure they're getting the most out of the MP that they have.

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linux99
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I hope not.
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

I would much rather they focused on better seosor quality DR, Noise etc rather than upping the pixel count.

12MP really was enough - 16 is nice but doesn't bring any practical added benefit.

Remember that the dimensions of the image you can produce doesn't increase linearly but by the square root. So the surface area of a 16MP print can in theory be 25% bigger than 12MP but that actually amounts to quite a small extra border around the edges of your print.

If you're viewing on screen then 5MP is more than enough for virtually any purpose.

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Tango 55
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No more MP, please!
In reply to 1943Mike, 5 months ago

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

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1943Mike

Please! 16MP is more than enough!

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Glen Barrington
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I don't think I'd go THAT far!
In reply to Tango 55, 5 months ago

Tango 55 wrote:

1943Mike wrote:

Does anyone think that Olympus will offer an OMD camera with a 24 mp or greater sensor in the near future?

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1943Mike

Please! 16MP is more than enough!

I'm more interested in quality than in an mp count at this  point.  If Oly or Panasonic can go to 18 - 24 - 36 mp without ANY sacrifice in quality, I'm all for it. But I would not want to go backwards in IQ just for mp bragging rights.  And if they can make 16 mp IQ even better yet, I'm all for that as well.

I want to see steady improvement in this area, but if maintaining image quality means remaining on the trailing edge of sensor technology, that's how I would want to go.

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Jorginho
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Re: feasible within noise constraints
In reply to Steve_, 5 months ago

Steve_ wrote:

Most users don't realize how noisy m43 sensor are in DSLR terms because there's a lot of NR being applied to the JPEGs.

They are about as noisy as most APS-c sensors. I can compare with D800E. Latest m43 sensors are not that noisy at all, in RAW. About 1,5-2 stops behind D800E.

But once you compare to good APS-C output in LR the rather dramatic increase in noise at base ISO is apparent.

Which sensor are you talking about? The EPl5. EM5/10 and Gh4/3 sensor are not noisy at all compared to APS-c. Dpreview has noted that you need FF to get a singificant IQ boost. Not APS-c.

Fortunately Olympus and Panasonic has filtered what is possible through a recognition that IQ must compete with DSLRs before the platform is tractable.

Not really. They started with 12 Mpixel sensor that was usable till ISO 800 in 2008. it ws evenbehind the worst APS-c sensor and far behind the 2007 Nikon D300 sensor. Nowadays the gap has narrowed conisderably. Quite a few pro's use mFT cams since the 16 Mpixel Sony sensor was used in EM5. EM1 is another step up, but not because of better IQ.
The next gen 16 Mpixel Panny sensor was not noisy at all. It lacked dynamic range.With the new sony and Panny sensors, reaching 13 eV this is gone too (as ocmpared to 10-11 eV with the previous iterations).Since 2011, APS-c has not made any strides here. The gap is there, but narrow...A 32 MPixel mFT makes perfect sense to me.With current tech it would brin us old Panny 16 Mpixel noise performance. Fine with me.

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