Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait? Locked

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nvlass
Forum MemberPosts: 60
Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
3 months ago

Hello to everybody,

Lately I am serious thinking about the Pentax 645 Mark II.

I should say that I never had a MF before so its is a new thing for me.

Right now I have the canon 5d mark iii with 17mm tse, 24mm tse, 24-70mm 2.8 mark II, 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark II, 50mm 1.8, 15mm fishey, plenty of flashes and CamRanger to control the camera from far

As you see I have plenty of 'good' lenses but my mind comes to the dynamic range of the new sensor.

Mostly I shoot landscapes and architecture, architecture for me is something that I love really and I like to take the time to "study" the image.

So what do you think shall I wait until canon brings out something that is comparable with the other sensors regarding dynamic range and megapixels? Or shall I start to find a new home for my equipment and move to the side of Pentax MF

PS I am not a professional but when I am really ready them maybe yes I will start my own business, you can check some images here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/envylight/with/8494916858/

Thank you for your time

Nikos

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Pentax 645Z
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Tim Devine
Contributing MemberPosts: 904Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

You could pickup a Sony a7R to tide you over.  You'll need an adapter, but at least you can use your existing investment in lenses.  The DR bump is quite noticeable, at least over the 5D II I have.

But MF is MF....

-Tim

nvlass wrote:

Hello to everybody,

Lately I am serious thinking about the Pentax 645 Mark II.

I should say that I never had a MF before so its is a new thing for me.

Right now I have the canon 5d mark iii with 17mm tse, 24mm tse, 24-70mm 2.8 mark II, 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark II, 50mm 1.8, 15mm fishey, plenty of flashes and CamRanger to control the camera from far

As you see I have plenty of 'good' lenses but my mind comes to the dynamic range of the new sensor.

Mostly I shoot landscapes and architecture, architecture for me is something that I love really and I like to take the time to "study" the image.

So what do you think shall I wait until canon brings out something that is comparable with the other sensors regarding dynamic range and megapixels? Or shall I start to find a new home for my equipment and move to the side of Pentax MF

PS I am not a professional but when I am really ready them maybe yes I will start my own business, you can check some images here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/envylight/with/8494916858/

Thank you for your time

Nikos

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hotdog321
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,464
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

Gosh, that would be a radical change, especially considering your present nice system. I would be more tempted to experiment with HDR and post processing techniques rather than invest in a whole new system. Is there something in particular that you are not achieving with the Canon cameras? I keep hearing about these inferior "old" Canon sensors, but I've been delighted with my 5D III bodies. It would be great if you could rent a Pentax and give it a test run first.

riknash
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,250Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

Hello to everybody,

Lately I am serious thinking about the Pentax 645 Mark II.

I should say that I never had a MF before so its is a new thing for me.

Right now I have the canon 5d mark iii with 17mm tse, 24mm tse, 24-70mm 2.8 mark II, 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark II, 50mm 1.8, 15mm fishey, plenty of flashes and CamRanger to control the camera from far

As you see I have plenty of 'good' lenses but my mind comes to the dynamic range of the new sensor.

Mostly I shoot landscapes and architecture, architecture for me is something that I love really and I like to take the time to "study" the image.

So what do you think shall I wait until canon brings out something that is comparable with the other sensors regarding dynamic range and megapixels? Or shall I start to find a new home for my equipment and move to the side of Pentax MF

PS I am not a professional but when I am really ready them maybe yes I will start my own business, you can check some images here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/envylight/with/8494916858/

Thank you for your time

Nikos

You might be better off soliciting thoughts from those who use the Pentax or at least shoot MF on that forum.
No doubt it would be fun to explore that format. If you have the ways and means, why not?

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DotCom Editor
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,564Gear list
The new Pentax 645Z looks interesting
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

I'm an old medium-format film guy, too: Mamiya RB67 and Mamiya Universal with Gossen Luny Pro meter hanging around my neck. The newly announced Pentax 645Z looks so very interesting. I want to wait for a couple of things: 1) See Canon's next round of announcements, 2) Read the hands-on reviews and personal experience stories of 645Z early adopters. Normally, I tell people not to wait, because in the meantime you may be missing wonderful shots. In this case, however, I'm changing my stance. It has been so long since Canon launched a pro-level camera, I suspect there must be something coming soon; perhaps in August just ahead of Photokina. YMMV

Joe Mayer
Regular MemberPosts: 105Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

A bigger sensor is always better if you can make use of the higher DR and resolution.  It sounds like you could.  If you have the finances, I see little reason why not.  If I or anyone else could tell you what camera Canon was going to offer and when, I or they would be one of the most popular people on the planet.  There are websites devoted to what gear and when (Canon rumors of course comes to mind) and most times it's speculation.  How long has the talk of the 7DII gone on?  I suppose it would be irritating to sell off all the gear only to have a Canon MF come out in a year.  I suppose it would be irritating to wait for Canon and see them come out with an MF four years from now.  It's always a risk and a financial investment into what path you think is right.  So it comes down to what important shots you're taking now and in the immediate future where the Pentax will make a difference (along with finances) as opposed to playing the waiting game which could go on and on.  I don't know if I helped but I hope you could get the gist of me actually leaning toward the Pentax.  Good luck in your choice.

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bosco1955
Forum MemberPosts: 83Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

Buy the Pentax.....

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Dave Luttmann
Forum ProPosts: 12,500Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

No Canon or Nikon will match it for resolution.  The dynamic range will be a couple of stops above the 5D3.  I had an afternoon shooting with the original 645D at Glazers in Seattle.  It was a pleasure to use.  You'll find the Pentax glass, both used and new to be superb.  And the viewfinder spanks 35mm FF bodies.

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Dave Luttmann
Forum ProPosts: 12,500Gear list
Re: The new Pentax 645Z looks interesting
In reply to DotCom Editor, 3 months ago

DotCom Editor wrote:

I'm an old medium-format film guy, too: Mamiya RB67 and Mamiya Universal with Gossen Luny Pro meter hanging around my neck. The newly announced Pentax 645Z looks so very interesting. I want to wait for a couple of things: 1) See Canon's next round of announcements, 2) Read the hands-on reviews and personal experience stories of 645Z early adopters. Normally, I tell people not to wait, because in the meantime you may be missing wonderful shots. In this case, however, I'm changing my stance. It has been so long since Canon launched a pro-level camera, I suspect there must be something coming soon; perhaps in August just ahead of Photokina. YMMV

Love my ancient RB67.  I loved the results I saw in print from the old 645D....the new model takes it to another level.

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marcio_napoli
Contributing MemberPosts: 787
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 3 months ago

Hi,

I've used 3 digital backs (Leaf Aptus 22mp, Hassel 31mp and Phase One P40) and believe I can offer some imput.

Also consider the P40 has the same Pentax 645D sensor (probably).

One myth about digital backs is that they have more highlight headroom.

Two of these backs actually have less highlight headroom than my Nikons, and only the P40 is better than my D700 in this regard.

But one importante reminder: the D700 is one of the best cameras out there for highlight recovery (I must test it to confirm, but I think it's actually better than the D800).

So, it's safe to say that D700 is a good benchmark.

Shadow noise:

These backs are simply superb, but ONLY if you shoot at base ISO.

Most of them are very low ISO cameras (often ISO 25 and 50 for base ISO), and most shooters do not want to live at such limited conditions.

If you can live with it, you'll be rewarded with superb DR.

If you can't, for anything above ISO 200, just choose your 35mm DSLR (it will probably be better from ISO 200 and above anyway).

Now, let's forget the measurable, technical bla bla bla for a minute.

3 things that DMF will always be better:

1.

CCD rendering (at least for current backs). No matter how you cut it, CCDs do have a different look.

IMO, a much better look.

We can't go much further about this topic in an internet forum. You really need to shoot thousands of CCD images to notice that gentle, subtle (but rewarding) difference.

2.

Colors.

Digital backs have very selective CFAs, so the colors normally pop, and look great without any serious efforts or adjustments.

IMO, digital backs colors are better than 35mm DSLRs by a mile or two.

3.

A sense of creative power.

Have you ever had that feeling, when you buy another 35mm body, that's just of more black brick to the collection?

That if you don't look for the model number (mark whatever), it's just the same ol' thing again?

That's because 35mm cameras differ very little among themselves beyond the sensor.

It gets to a point it becomes boring (at least for me ).

But when you shoot with DMF, the HUGE viewfinder, the "manly" sound of the mirror flapping, seeing the ultra large sensor when you take the back off the body...

All these things you'll never find with 35mm DSLRs, and they sum up for a very rewarding experience.

It's so rewarding, that one may produce better shots just because it renews the passion to be out there shooting.

At least for me, I feel I can do better whenever I'm shooting with these monsters.

Clients notice that enthusiasm (and results) too.

And they're not even that expensive anymore.

There're plenty of old backs on Ebay, for prices you'd normally pay for your next DSLR.

If anyone here is interested, I can upload some P40 RAW files latter.

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Marcio Napoli

www.marcionapoli.com

Dave Luttmann
Forum ProPosts: 12,500Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to marcio_napoli, 3 months ago

The new Pentax doesn't use a ccd...as such, a lot of that info doesn't carry forward.  Highlight and shadow information is all inclusive in dynamic range.  The latest cmos sensor used in the new backs exceeds the current Canon sensors.

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marcio_napoli
Contributing MemberPosts: 787
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 3 months ago

I agree, but considering there's only 1 CMOS DMF sensor available, and no one really knows its performance for sure, I think the CCD backs are still relevant.

Specially if you consider these will be the backs most will afford on the used market.

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Marcio Napoli

www.marcionapoli.com

bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 29,029
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to marcio_napoli, 3 months ago

marcio_napoli wrote:

I agree, but considering there's only 1 CMOS DMF sensor available, and no one really knows its performance for sure, I think the CCD backs are still relevant.

Specially if you consider these will be the backs most will afford on the used market.

The new sensor, used in the 645Z, P1 IQ250 and 'blad H5-50c is a Sony Exmor - it's performance is pretty predictable. It has a 5.3 micron pixel, equivalent to about 30MP on FF - so it should be a pretty known quantity, if we know hoe the Sony A7R and Nikon D800E perform, it will perform much like those, but with a bigger sensor.

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Bob

Mikael Risedal
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,162
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 3 months ago

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The new Pentax doesn't use a ccd...as such, a lot of that info doesn't carry forward. Highlight and shadow information is all inclusive in dynamic range. The latest cmos sensor used in the new backs exceeds the current Canon sensors.

Canons sensors are not known for resolution or DR at base iso

old sensor tech compared to Sony,Toshiba ,Panasonic, Aptina etc etc

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Canon, Hasselblad, Leica,Nikon, Linhoff, Sinar
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Dave Luttmann
Forum ProPosts: 12,500Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to Mikael Risedal, 3 months ago

Mikael Risedal wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

The new Pentax doesn't use a ccd...as such, a lot of that info doesn't carry forward. Highlight and shadow information is all inclusive in dynamic range. The latest cmos sensor used in the new backs exceeds the current Canon sensors.

Canons sensors are not known for resolution or DR at base iso

old sensor tech compared to Sony,Toshiba ,Panasonic, Aptina etc etc

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True.  As long as they aren't pushed to bad, they are OK.  But until they go beyond 2008 technology, there are better options.

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Ultradan
Regular MemberPosts: 186
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 3 months ago

Surely the only answer to this thread is - if you can afford to spend that much money on a new camera system and want to then do it. If you make money from the shots that you will take on it and can justify the expense then why not?

Slightly pointless topic really, you sound like another gearhead with too much money to spend on your reasoning for not finding what you want in your current camera system, but thats just my opinion.

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nvlass
Forum MemberPosts: 60
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to Ultradan, 3 months ago

Sorry that for some of you is pointless subject, I read all the comments and I am really happy when I see people that they write their opinion regarding the subject.

For me the MF is something new and I don't now much about it but I really like to discover

No I dont have much money to spent its like most of the people decide where to spent the money, No?

I dont spent it in expensive cars, expensive life, drugs just in to photography, I know sometimes I overspent.

I read somewhere that with the medium format you slow down things so maybe is a way to have the body and three lenses and thats it. Then try to master the Medium Format

Just my opinion

roustabout66
Regular MemberPosts: 467Gear list
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

nvlass wrote:

Hello to everybody,

Lately I am serious thinking about the Pentax 645 Mark II.

I should say that I never had a MF before so its is a new thing for me.

Right now I have the canon 5d mark iii with 17mm tse, 24mm tse, 24-70mm 2.8 mark II, 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark II, 50mm 1.8, 15mm fishey, plenty of flashes and CamRanger to control the camera from far

As you see I have plenty of 'good' lenses but my mind comes to the dynamic range of the new sensor.

Mostly I shoot landscapes and architecture, architecture for me is something that I love really and I like to take the time to "study" the image.

So what do you think shall I wait until canon brings out something that is comparable with the other sensors regarding dynamic range and megapixels? Or shall I start to find a new home for my equipment and move to the side of Pentax MF

PS I am not a professional but when I am really ready them maybe yes I will start my own business, you can check some images here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/envylight/with/8494916858/

Thank you for your time

Nikos

You have some really nice images! I think the Pentax would be an improvement over your 5DM3 for landscapes due to the increased resolution....if you print large. The difference in DR may or may not be important. Do you plan to print? If you print, the dynamic range will be 8 1/2 stops or less in the print so whatever you use will have much more DR than the print. If you do not plan to print, why do you need 50 MPs? MF does have a "look" that is hard to duplicate in FF 35. I am not that familiar with Pentax lenses but I doubt they have the tilt/shift lenses that Canon does for your architecture shots. For me, resolution is important for landscapes but DR not so much since my goal is a print.

Rick Knepper
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,746Gear list
I am seriously thinking about the Pentax 645z
In reply to nvlass, 3 months ago

Hello to everybody,

Lately I am serious thinking about the Pentax 645 Mark II.

I should say that I never had a MF before so its is a new thing for me.

Right now I have the canon 5d mark iii with 17mm tse, 24mm tse, 24-70mm 2.8 mark II, 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark II, 50mm 1.8, 15mm fishey, plenty of flashes and CamRanger to control the camera from far

As you see I have plenty of 'good' lenses but my mind comes to the dynamic range of the new sensor.

Mostly I shoot landscapes and architecture, architecture for me is something that I love really and I like to take the time to "study" the image.

So what do you think shall I wait until canon brings out something that is comparable with the other sensors regarding dynamic range and megapixels? Or shall I start to find a new home for my equipment and move to the side of Pentax MF

PS I am not a professional but when I am really ready them maybe yes I will start my own business, you can check some images here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/envylight/with/8494916858/

Thank you for your time

Nikos

To replace the Nikon side of my kit. I don't think I would do it if all I had was canon gear. For general photography, the 5d3 is too good, (yes I consider lots of my landscape shooting general in nature.

I am going to wait for additional user reviews although the samples imaging resource provided were very good.
--
Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie

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Mikael Risedal
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,162
Re: Serious thinking of the Pentax 645 or shall wait?
In reply to roustabout66, 3 months ago

roustabout66 wrote:

nvlass wrote:

Hello to everybody,

Lately I am serious thinking about the Pentax 645 Mark II.

I should say that I never had a MF before so its is a new thing for me.

Right now I have the canon 5d mark iii with 17mm tse, 24mm tse, 24-70mm 2.8 mark II, 70-200mm 2.8 IS mark II, 50mm 1.8, 15mm fishey, plenty of flashes and CamRanger to control the camera from far

As you see I have plenty of 'good' lenses but my mind comes to the dynamic range of the new sensor.

Mostly I shoot landscapes and architecture, architecture for me is something that I love really and I like to take the time to "study" the image.

So what do you think shall I wait until canon brings out something that is comparable with the other sensors regarding dynamic range and megapixels? Or shall I start to find a new home for my equipment and move to the side of Pentax MF

PS I am not a professional but when I am really ready them maybe yes I will start my own business, you can check some images here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/envylight/with/8494916858/

Thank you for your time

Nikos

You have some really nice images! I think the Pentax would be an improvement over your 5DM3 for landscapes due to the increased resolution....if you print large. The difference in DR may or may not be important. Do you plan to print? If you print, the dynamic range will be 8 1/2 stops or less in the print so whatever you use will have much more DR than the print. If you do not plan to print, why do you need 50 MPs? MF does have a "look" that is hard to duplicate in FF 35. I am not that familiar with Pentax lenses but I doubt they have the tilt/shift lenses that Canon does for your architecture shots. For me, resolution is important for landscapes but DR not so much since my goal is a print.

thats not true , you can work easily with 14stops DR pictures and lift for example shadows below middle grey and expose so  high lights  are intact and present the results in prints as you can do with for example HDR

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