My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF

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Jim Cassatt
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My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
7 months ago

I think this is the nature of EVF's in general.  Yesterday I went to photograph the high water at Great Falls Park in Virginia.  It was a bright sunny day with the sun at my back.   The problem is that with this contrasty scene, it is hard to see detail in the EVF to the point that precise composition is difficult.  I confirmed this this morning.  I took some pictures of my back garden, again front lit by the morning sun.  I was in shadows.  Again I had trouble seeing details.  However, with my Canon 5D MKIII, no problem.  Sean Rein in his review of the X-T1 had the same problem.  It makes me wonder whether EVF's will be able to overcome this deficiency, namely that the dynamic range of the eye with an OVF is greater that any EVF.

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Edward Chatlos
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Why do you need to see DETAILS to compose the shot? Sorry I don't understand. In the same situation I would compose the shot in my mind and then check that in the viewfinder for left/right/up/down as to what I was capturing.

Pick out the central subject and place it in the viewfinder where you want it in the shot.

I will never go back to an OVF. It either makes the came to heavy and large or it is to restrictive in what you can do with it, like a Rangefinder style camera.

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seukel
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

I think this is the nature of EVF's in general. Yesterday I went to photograph the high water at Great Falls Park in Virginia. It was a bright sunny day with the sun at my back. The problem is that with this contrasty scene, it is hard to see detail in the EVF to the point that precise composition is difficult. I confirmed this this morning. I took some pictures of my back garden, again front lit by the morning sun. I was in shadows. Again I had trouble seeing details. However, with my Canon 5D MKIII, no problem. Sean Rein in his review of the X-T1 had the same problem. It makes me wonder whether EVF's will be able to overcome this deficiency, namely that the dynamic range of the eye with an OVF is greater that any EVF.

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Under such conditions the OVF of the X100 or the X-Pro1is a delight to use. Even the EVF of the X-T1 is not so good for sunny summer days, beaches or on winter snow. But this has of course already been discussed several times.

Peter

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Activatedfx
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

I find the X-E2 EVF to be far superior to the LCD for both composing, and image review. In bright sun I simply cup my left hand around the left side of the camera to shade the EFV. A bigger eyecup is definitely something Fuji should offer but, for now, a well-placed palm works!

Did you update the firmware to 2.0? It definitely makes the EVF more responsive.

Is your diopter adjusted correctly? I find that if it's even 1 "click" off from "sharp" for my eye, the EVF is less useful.

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EugeneC
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

I think this is the nature of EVF's in general. Yesterday I went to photograph the high water at Great Falls Park in Virginia. It was a bright sunny day with the sun at my back. The problem is that with this contrasty scene, it is hard to see detail in the EVF to the point that precise composition is difficult. I confirmed this this morning. I took some pictures of my back garden, again front lit by the morning sun. I was in shadows. Again I had trouble seeing details. However, with my Canon 5D MKIII, no problem. Sean Rein in his review of the X-T1 had the same problem. It makes me wonder whether EVF's will be able to overcome this deficiency, namely that the dynamic range of the eye with an OVF is greater that any EVF.

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FWIW, I think the XE-1 &2 EVF's are awful and well behind other makes such as Olympus and Sony. The XT-1 is good IMO..............for an EVF.

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MayaTlab0
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

I think this is the nature of EVF's in general. Yesterday I went to photograph the high water at Great Falls Park in Virginia. It was a bright sunny day with the sun at my back. The problem is that with this contrasty scene, it is hard to see detail in the EVF to the point that precise composition is difficult. I confirmed this this morning. I took some pictures of my back garden, again front lit by the morning sun. I was in shadows. Again I had trouble seeing details. However, with my Canon 5D MKIII, no problem. Sean Rein in his review of the X-T1 had the same problem. It makes me wonder whether EVF's will be able to overcome this deficiency, namely that the dynamic range of the eye with an OVF is greater that any EVF.

It's one of the things I too dislike with EVFs but I'm not sure even high dynamic range sensors can cover the most extreme contrasts one can see with the naked eye. No doubt technology will improve this situation, but even then, since EVFs are most of the time touted as a WYSIWYG experience, they mostly try to display the jpeg dynamic range curve that you'll get instead of the maximum dynamic range they can provide in raw for example.

Have you tried to adjust the shadow / highlight curves in the settings ? This can make a (very) small difference).

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Marcos Villaroman
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

I think this is the nature of EVF's in general. Yesterday I went to photograph the high water at Great Falls Park in Virginia. It was a bright sunny day with the sun at my back. The problem is that with this contrasty scene, it is hard to see detail in the EVF to the point that precise composition is difficult. I confirmed this this morning. I took some pictures of my back garden, again front lit by the morning sun. I was in shadows. Again I had trouble seeing details. However, with my Canon 5D MKIII, no problem. Sean Rein in his review of the X-T1 had the same problem. It makes me wonder whether EVF's will be able to overcome this deficiency, namely that the dynamic range of the eye with an OVF is greater that any EVF.

Put me down as another person who doesn't understand what your problem is composing with the EVF in bright light.

Are you having problems getting a good look at the EVF due to lack of an eye cup, letting light leak between the EVF and your eye? Does it take too long to go from looking at the bright scene directly and then looking into a dimmer EVF?  Are you trying to manually focus?

Please elaborate.

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Grumpyrocker
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Wear a hat.

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seukel
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Grumpyrocker, 7 months ago

Grumpyrocker wrote:

Wear a hat.

What do you mean? A sombrero? Anything smaller won't help. And what if it's windy?

Peter

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Tom Schum
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to seukel, 7 months ago

seukel wrote:

Grumpyrocker wrote:

Wear a hat.

What do you mean? A sombrero? Anything smaller won't help. And what if it's windy?

Peter

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Perhaps Fuji can offer an EVF super-sombrero accessory!  There is money to be made here!  Seriously though, a wide brim hat works fairly well in addition to controlling my UV exposure.  My dermatologist insists I use a wide brim hat when outdoors, and I agree it is good advice.

One of the first things I tried to do when I got my X-E1 was to remove that rubber thing surrounding the EVF view window.  No success.

That would be nice to have: standard eyecup mount as found on DSLRs, so aftermarket eyecup enhancements could be used (Hoodman, etc).

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Tom Schum

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bs1946
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Have you tried to adjust the LCD/EVF brightness level? Perhaps that will resolve your issue. I had an X-A1 and one of the issues was seeing the LCD in very bright light. Even with Fuji's LCD brightness feature engaged, it was still difficult. Just like people trying to read their smartphone and tablet screens. I have an X-E1 now and will never upgrade to a camera without a viewfinder, optical or electronic.

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tecnoworld
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to EugeneC, 7 months ago

If you consider them awful, try the evf in samsung nx cameras...fuji's evf is SO much better...

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* Dear haters, you are now in my ignore list, so your hostile responses are probably not visible to me.

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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to tecnoworld, 7 months ago

Nonsense!

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Chad Hardy
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

I think this is the nature of EVF's in general. Yesterday I went to photograph the high water at Great Falls Park in Virginia. It was a bright sunny day with the sun at my back. The problem is that with this contrasty scene, it is hard to see detail in the EVF to the point that precise composition is difficult. I confirmed this this morning. I took some pictures of my back garden, again front lit by the morning sun. I was in shadows. Again I had trouble seeing details. However, with my Canon 5D MKIII, no problem. Sean Rein in his review of the X-T1 had the same problem. It makes me wonder whether EVF's will be able to overcome this deficiency, namely that the dynamic range of the eye with an OVF is greater that any EVF.

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Pretty sure if you EVF had trouble you shot would have been bad as well.  Yes you see what your eye sees with the OVF, but that isn't what the sensor sees.

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Jim Cassatt
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Chad Hardy, 7 months ago

Every one has made some excellent points. First off the picture, shown above,  was fine. I could not see the detail in the water, nor on the rocks through the viewfinder.   When I checked for the same thing off my back deck, the scene was very contrasty, but I was standing on a shaded porch, so the problem was not light entering the viewfinder.  That picture was fine also.  Compared well with the picture shot with my canon 5D MKIII.

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Ray Sachs
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EVFs have upsides and downsides, like OVFs...
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

For sure, EVFs, although much better than even those from 2-3 years ago, still have their limits. And DR is one of them. I've taken many shots on bright days where the shadows looked absolutely black, but I've learned to trust that the detail will be there in the raw file. The EVFs in the XT1 and EM1 are much larger, and seemingly brighter than the one on the XE2, but they can also be difficult in some light and they can show too little DR as well.

But I shot with a DSLR again recently and, while I loved the big real view through the OVF, I found I missed the live view shooting experience more than I enjoyed the OVF. I really like having an idea of how the exposure controls I'm adjusting are going to effect the shot as I'm composing it, even if I can't see all of the detail. I actually felt a little hobbled by the big bright view not changing as I made various adjustments. And for manual focus, I definitely prefer the EVFs magnification and focus aids.

The best of both worlds would somehow be a hybrid finder that worked TTL so it could work with a full range of system lenses. The type of hybrid approach in the X-Pro and X100(s) is brilliant, but limited to a relatively small subset of lenses. And, of course loses some framing accuracy.

So, we each pick our poison. There's no perfect solution. Yet. And maybe never.  But we've never had more good options than we do today...

-Ray
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We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
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Jim Cassatt
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Re: EVFs have upsides and downsides, like OVFs...
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

I totally agree with you.  There are times with I love the EV,F and times when I hate it.

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jrk
jrk
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Grumpyrocker, 7 months ago

Grumpyrocker wrote:

Wear a hat.

Yup, baseball hat on bright sunny days.  Perhaps someone will come out with an eye cup for the X-E2.  I believe there is one for the X-T1.

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Marcos Villaroman
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 7 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

Every one has made some excellent points. First off the picture, shown above, was fine. I could not see the detail in the water, nor on the rocks through the viewfinder. When I checked for the same thing off my back deck, the scene was very contrasty, but I was standing on a shaded porch, so the problem was not light entering the viewfinder. That picture was fine also. Compared well with the picture shot with my canon 5D MKIII.

Given we don't have EVFs with 16MP to match the 16MP in-sensor nor do we have 10-bit color, I can see why the complete scene wouldn't show the subtle contrast and color you can preceive with a very good OVF.

However, EVFs have the ability to zoom in extremely close which is the best you are ever going to get for critical manual focusing. I use liveview on my 5D3 a lot when I got the camera mounted on a tripod.

The thing is, I find fast manual focusing on the 5D3 to be harder to do than on my old 5D2 or on an EVF with decent manual focusing features such as focus peaking. It's a pity the 5D3 doesn't support interchangeable focus screens.

Bottom line for me is that I while I do wish EVF tech to continue to improve, with the X-T1, EVF improvement is far from my highest priority.  So easy for me to adapt to the EVF and move on to other issues.

I still wish Fuji-X cameras to have improved AF speed; the ability to select AF points as effortless as can be done with the 5D3; better support for flash; etc.

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Sal Baker
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Re: My biggest problem with my X-E2--the EVF
In reply to Marcos Villaroman, 7 months ago

Marcos Villaroman wrote:

Jim Cassatt wrote:

Every one has made some excellent points. First off the picture, shown above, was fine. I could not see the detail in the water, nor on the rocks through the viewfinder. When I checked for the same thing off my back deck, the scene was very contrasty, but I was standing on a shaded porch, so the problem was not light entering the viewfinder. That picture was fine also. Compared well with the picture shot with my canon 5D MKIII.

Given we don't have EVFs with 16MP to match the 16MP in-sensor nor do we have 10-bit color, I can see why the complete scene wouldn't show the subtle contrast and color you can preceive with a very good OVF.

However, EVFs have the ability to zoom in extremely close which is the best you are ever going to get for critical manual focusing. I use liveview on my 5D3 a lot when I got the camera mounted on a tripod.

The thing is, I find fast manual focusing on the 5D3 to be harder to do than on my old 5D2 or on an EVF with decent manual focusing features such as focus peaking. It's a pity the 5D3 doesn't support interchangeable focus screens.

Bottom line for me is that I while I do wish EVF tech to continue to improve, with the X-T1, EVF improvement is far from my highest priority. So easy for me to adapt to the EVF and move on to other issues.

I still wish Fuji-X cameras to have improved AF speed; the ability to select AF points as effortless as can be done with the 5D3; better support for flash; etc.

I would never go back to an OVF.  A shoot a lot of landscapes, many of them multi-row stitched so I need (and enjoy) manual focus.  The nice big OVF in my 5DII was useless for critical manual focus so I always used live view.  Trying to see focus on an LCD on the back of the camera is much more difficult than having live view in the viewfinder.  The new FW update has increased the peaking focus aid dramatically IMO, and the velvet-smooth frame rate is a nice bonus.

Sal

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