Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance

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dr Ate
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Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
5 months ago

Hello

Please have a look here. High iso of new Sony A77 II looks like from version1. Sony, why ?

http://www.optyczne.pl/6962-news-_Sony_SLT-A77_II_-_przyk%C5%82adowe_zdj%C4%99cia.html

Sony a77 II
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VirtualMirage
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

What are you looking at to gather that and compared to what?

The shots you see are JPEG only on pre-production cameras. The shots are limited to the hands on time they had, so I don't see any competition shots of the same scenes to say what is better.

But looking at some of the ISO 1600, 3200, and 6400 shots I think they look pretty decent (the shot with the hanging peppers or vanilla beans). At 12,800 I can see it starting to muddy up, but it still isn't terrible if needed in a pinch for smaller sizes. I'm actually surprised as to how well the colors and dynamic range hold up. no color shifting either.

But of course, I am not a JPEG shooter. I'd be more interested in how the RAW files look.

The problems I see in these shots look a lot more to be the photographer than the camera.  But remember, they only got to use a demonstration model for a short time and were probably rushing to get some shots to publish.

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J Birn
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Thanks for posting the link, but WTF are you disappointed about?
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

dr Ate wrote:

Hello

Please have a look here. High iso of new Sony A77 II looks like from version1. Sony, why ?

http://www.optyczne.pl/6962-news-_Sony_SLT-A77_II_-_przyk%C5%82adowe_zdj%C4%99cia.html

Those early images look awesome!

Seeing those images (from an early unit, obviously not final quality jpegs and no way to shoot raw and do proper raw processing in Lightroom or DXO yet...) makes it looks like the raw performance might be better than the original a77, even though it has the same sensor size and pixel density.

I have an a99, and use it up to 6400 ISO, because I've found the ISO6400 shots can look quite respectable with processing in Lightroom. (Going higher than 6400 could work too, but I usually avoid it and have 6400 as my max setting when I'm in auto ISO.)

I'm looking forwards to seeing more about the final image quality from the a77ii. I'm actually thinking about the possibility of selling my a99 and CZ24-70 f/2.8, and getting an a77ii and 16-50 f/2.8 instead, as a wait of getting a lighter, more portable, faster camera set-up that has wifi, a built-in flash, and better AF performance with an ability to AF and track things in more of the frame. Of course I'll wait to read full reviews before I'd pull the trigger on a decision like that, but the a77ii might be a good "upgrade" from the a99 in some respects.

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Jeremy Birn

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Tapper123
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to VirtualMirage, 5 months ago
But of course, I am not a JPEG shooter. I'd be more interested in how the RAW files look.

Agreed. I can't imagine shooting JPEG only with a camera like this. I'm surprised some people do.

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dr Ate
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to VirtualMirage, 5 months ago

I hope Your'e right... I really wanted to purchased this new version, but (personally) I find those JPEGs not so tempting for example vs Oly E-M1. Maybe its the photographer, or maybe early firmware. Wait and see.

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K E Hoffman
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

dr Ate wrote:

I hope Your'e right... I really wanted to purchased this new version, but (personally) I find those JPEGs not so tempting for example vs Oly E-M1. Maybe its the photographer, or maybe early Not

Looks to be an improvement over this

ISO 1600 from Oly E-M1

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/olympus-e-m1/FULLRES/YP1010039.HTM

Note the blotched mess on the hair on the arms of the nearest photographer..at ISO 1600?

Sony ISO 1600 clearly better than the camera you just listed as better... Only if you like feeding your detail to NR..

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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GingerSix
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to Tapper123, 5 months ago

Tapper123 wrote:

But of course, I am not a JPEG shooter. I'd be more interested in how the RAW files look.

Agreed. I can't imagine shooting JPEG only with a camera like this. I'm surprised some people do.

If the JPEGs are good enough, why shoot RAW? I'm more surprised that you you are surprised...

To the OP, I think ISO 1600 still looks decent, can't say it's same or better than the A77, I'm sure there will be side by side comparisons when the retail is out.

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JimmyMelbourne
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

Generally speaking 1600 looks better than a77, 3200 things get too noisy for me. 1600 looks acceptable. That compares to 1000 - 1250 ISO which is as high as I go for acceptance on the a77. To me I *think* I am seeing about 1/3 to 1/2 stop improvement, maybe more on the lower side. But it is very difficult to compare this way and is really just an educated guess at this stage. ISO 800 looks quite clean on the a77ii from what I have seen so far. Cant wait to see raw file output comparison.

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Danny Williams
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

Looking at the 1600 iso sample.....it's awful. Come on Sony, this isn't even competitive with other brands. Very disappointing to say the least.

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TrojMacReady
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NR was turned off...
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

.. from what I can tell looking at the pictures and a lacking google translation of the original page.

From what I recall, the A77 does not offer a NR off setting and based on recent Sony cameras that do offer a NR off setting, RAW opened in Lightroom/ACR with NR turned off still looks better due to a lot less artifacting.

That being said, these still give a much better starting point than the same scenes posted by other early previewers that had NR turned on with a lot of smudging above ISO 400 as a result (way too much for my liking still).

Keeping all that in mind, I do see some potential.

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VirtualMirage
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to GingerSix, 5 months ago

GingerSix wrote:

Tapper123 wrote:

But of course, I am not a JPEG shooter. I'd be more interested in how the RAW files look.

Agreed. I can't imagine shooting JPEG only with a camera like this. I'm surprised some people do.

If the JPEGs are good enough, why shoot RAW? I'm more surprised that you you are surprised...

When taking pictures with an old film camera, after you get your pictures developed, do you throw out the negatives?

For some JPEG may be fine and dandy, but I feel JPEG is starting to get a little long in the tooth.  If you are perfectly happy with the out of camera results, then they can be fine.  But if you need to make adjustments to them, you start to become limited.

JPEGs, by nature, are only limited to 8-bits per color channel.  That is only 256 shades of color per channel.  This camera is capable of shooting at 14-bits, which is 16,384 shades of color per channel.  This gives you smoother transitions in color without the risk of posterization, more accurate color, and more accurate tones.

While you might not be able to see the full advantage of 14-bit images on your current display, as technology continues to improve RAW files will be more future proof than JPEGs.  We will be able to see on our displays what that 14-bits gets you, RAW editors will be able to get better results out of the RAW files etc.  Meanwhile, JPEG will still be stuck with little to no room for improvement.

For those happy in the now and not concerned about the future, JPEGs are fine.  For the rest, RAW is still the go to source.

Just remember how JPEGs looked back in the 90s.  Now imagine your JPEGs taken today 20 years from now.  Will they hold up just as well as they did back then, or will they be showing their age (and not in a good way)?

While RAW isn't for everyone (I agree on that), I do feel it is time that the camera manufacturers look to a new format other than JPEG that is little more future ready.  JPEG2000 or JPEG XR are good candidates and attempts have been made to push them, but not much success has come from it.

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K E Hoffman
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to Danny Williams, 5 months ago

Danny Williams wrote:

Looking at the 1600 iso sample.....it's awful. Come on Sony, this isn't even competitive with other brands. Very disappointing to say the least.

You can't rationally tell that from early samples, there are no controls and no comparative examples to see how another camera would handle the scene.

Love how account that post less than a dozen times a year.. suddenly go active for pots like this..

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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philbot
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

Since we know it has the same sensor as the A6000, SLT = 1/3 stop of light loss, so obviously whilst it's going to be 'worse', we know how much worse..

I was amazed how well my A77 held up once I understood it had a high ISO sensitivty.. I'd trade 1/3 stop of light for all the features anyday, but that's my personal choice, I don't feel I need to run to the other forums and start telling people that anything less than 12fps is 'terrible' or other such reciprocal actions..

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vw671
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to JimmyMelbourne, 5 months ago

1600 looks good enough for me. Submitted my pre-order:D

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Raven Falls
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

dr Ate wrote:

Sony, why ?

So certain Usual Suspects here can have something to rant, whine, and doomsay about until actual production samples come out?  (Not that they wouldn't have anyway, of course...)

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dr Ate
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to K E Hoffman, 5 months ago

K E Hoffman wrote:

Danny Williams wrote:

Looking at the 1600 iso sample.....it's awful. Come on Sony, this isn't even competitive with other brands. Very disappointing to say the least.

You can't rationally tell that from early samples, there are no controls and no comparative examples to see how another camera would handle the scene.

Love how account that post less than a dozen times a year.. suddenly go active for pots like this..

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

Hey K E Hoffman,

Here is another portion of samples, I've searched a little bit. These look slightly better, isn't it ?

http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=18738&sony-a77-ii-zdjecia-przykladowe

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Bacho
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to Raven Falls, 5 months ago

i dont see any iso improvemets over a77 I, i think it is the same sensor, disappointed!

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K E Hoffman
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to dr Ate, 5 months ago

dr Ate wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

Danny Williams wrote:

Looking at the 1600 iso sample.....it's awful. Come on Sony, this isn't even competitive with other brands. Very disappointing to say the least.

You can't rationally tell that from early samples, there are no controls and no comparative examples to see how another camera would handle the scene.

Love how account that post less than a dozen times a year.. suddenly go active for pots like this..

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

Hey K E Hoffman,

Here is another portion of samples, I've searched a little bit. These look slightly better, isn't it ?

http://www.fotopolis.pl/index.php?n=18738&sony-a77-ii-zdjecia-przykladowe

I am waiting for controlled tests of some kind  to judge. Since I shoot RAW I need to see RAW.

In the end its going to be the same or just a bit better than the A77.. There was a point I hoped for a full stop.. But guessing about a half.. which in reality I can easily deal with in Batch processing in LR.. so not even an issue.. the AF and stabilization improvements are more important.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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sybersitizen
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to philbot, 5 months ago

philbot wrote:

Since we know it has the same sensor as the A6000...

I don't know that. Does it also have the same dedicated OSPDAF sensor elements left unused?

Even before this particular comment, the thread started off badly and has already gone off the deep end in a very short time.

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vw671
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Re: Dissapointing Sony A77 II High ISO performance
In reply to Bacho, 5 months ago

Bacho wrote:

i dont see any iso improvemets over a77 I, i think it is the same sensor, disappointed!

The original A77 sensor wasn't gapless, so no it's not the same sensor.

http://www.sony.net/Products/di/en-gb/products/g2sw/feature.html?contentsTop=1

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