THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
josbiker
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THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera
5 months ago

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
Canon EOS-1D X Nikon D4s Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4
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PerL
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Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

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josbiker
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

 josbiker's gear list:josbiker's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
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Ontario Gone
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Re: THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

Very, very interesting. I went to the site and searched GH4 but it's not in english. perhaps somebody can translate or find an english version? Still sounds like a success for Panasonic. To have a camera that supposedly bests those two monsters, AND offers in camera 4k is amazing. It seems the GH4 is ushering in a new era in ILC.

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"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

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PerL
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera"  camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

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josbiker
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

 josbiker's gear list:josbiker's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
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PerL
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is  "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

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neil holmes
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,088
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances.     It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok.   (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

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josbiker
Regular MemberPosts: 348Gear list
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

I have not draw a conclusion,  I only say that the GH4 wins with the AUTO FOCUS TIMES according CHIP.DE, so please read my post carefully!

Thanks

 josbiker's gear list:josbiker's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
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josbiker
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to neil holmes, 5 months ago

neil holmes wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances. It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok. (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

What about 4Kvideo and 8 megapixels prints from that!  and 30 pictures in a second.Which camera can do that!

For sure the GH4 can, so what is in 2014 a action or sport camera?

Thanks

 josbiker's gear list:josbiker's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
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PerL
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances. It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok. (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

What about 4Kvideo and 8 megapixels prints from that! and 30 pictures in a second.Which camera can do that!

For sure the GH4 can, so what is in 2014 a action or sport camera?

Video is video, another game (Professional still photographers won't be allowed to shot video in big games/competitions that sells video rights to broadcast companies).

Being able to shot at 30 fps instead of 10-12 fps brings very little to the table to the sports photographers. There has been very few interesting sports images from for instance the Casio high speed cameras (60-100 fps). You only got thousands of more boring shots to select from.

The challenge is to to frame the shot, to get interesting angles, light etc - not to "film" the event. There is no problem catching the moment with skill, anticipation, super fast shutter response and 10-12 fps. The AF-C on Nikon/Canon pro cameras is already so fast that you can virtually shot anything in the way of sports.

Thanks

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josbiker
Regular MemberPosts: 348Gear list
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

Use the 4 K video and you have a very nice 8 MP print! You can choose out of 30 pictures and pck the best! You cannot do that with Canon and Nikop.

 josbiker's gear list:josbiker's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
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PerL
Forum ProPosts: 12,598
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

Use the 4 K video and you have a very nice 8 MP print! You can choose out of 30 pictures and pck the best! You cannot do that with Canon and Nikop.

If you going to "film" for an hour you have to look through 108.000 frames. If I only "film" moments its more important to have 10 fps/12fps with the best sharpness, low noise, subject isolation than 30 fps with less quality.

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josbiker
Regular MemberPosts: 348Gear list
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances. It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok. (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

What about 4Kvideo and 8 megapixels prints from that! and 30 pictures in a second.Which camera can do that!

For sure the GH4 can, so what is in 2014 a action or sport camera?

Video is video, another game (Professional still photographers won't be allowed to shot video in big games/competitions that sells video rights to broadcast companies).

Being able to shot at 30 fps instead of 10-12 fps brings very little to the table to the sports photographers. There has been very few interesting sports images from for instance the Casio high speed cameras (60-100 fps). You only got thousands of more boring shots to select from.

The challenge is to to frame the shot, to get interesting angles, light etc - not to "film" the event. There is no problem catching the moment with skill, anticipation, super fast shutter response and 10-12 fps. The AF-C on Nikon/Canon pro cameras is already so fast that you can virtually shot anything in the way of sports.

Thanks

Use that when you can use it and when it is not possible to use, use than the faster auto-focus times on the GH4.

Please

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Ontario Gone
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

.

The AF-C on Nikon/Canon pro cameras is already so fast that you can virtually shot anything in the way of sports.

This is so true. The problem is they also cost an arm and a leg, they are huge and heavy (as are the lenses), and they are missing very useful features such as real time exposure through the VF, electronic shutters, focus peaking.... I can shoot in a concert hall, a recital, a church, a wedding, (insert any quiet event you like), with my GX7 (or a GH4) and nobody knows if i took a shot or not.

DSLR makers won't offer electronic shutters for OVF shooting because it's a waste, they have the mirror still flapping about, and since LV is not the main draw of a DSLR, electronic shutters will be rare there too. The simple truth is there are potential advantages to mirrorless (not all mirrorless are on board yet with all these) that won't be had with a DSLR, so if we are going to even up AF, where does a pro DSLR have an advantage? We are down to IQ now, but there's nothing saying that an A7 can't get GH4 like auto focus and an electronic shutter. Then what?

It's not about just shooting anything in the way of sports, it's about being able to do that and also do other things. Very soon you will hear DSLR owners shift from bragging about C-AF to bragging about FF IQ. That will be the only thing they have.

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PerL
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances. It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok. (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

What about 4Kvideo and 8 megapixels prints from that! and 30 pictures in a second.Which camera can do that!

For sure the GH4 can, so what is in 2014 a action or sport camera?

Video is video, another game (Professional still photographers won't be allowed to shot video in big games/competitions that sells video rights to broadcast companies).

Being able to shot at 30 fps instead of 10-12 fps brings very little to the table to the sports photographers. There has been very few interesting sports images from for instance the Casio high speed cameras (60-100 fps). You only got thousands of more boring shots to select from.

The challenge is to to frame the shot, to get interesting angles, light etc - not to "film" the event. There is no problem catching the moment with skill, anticipation, super fast shutter response and 10-12 fps. The AF-C on Nikon/Canon pro cameras is already so fast that you can virtually shot anything in the way of sports.

Thanks

Use that when you can use it and when it is not possible to use, use than the faster auto-focus times on the GH4.

But I don't think GH4 has a faster AF/better hit rate in a real sports shooting scenario.

Please

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Ontario Gone
Senior MemberPosts: 3,072Gear list
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

Use that when you can use it and when it is not possible to use, use than the faster auto-focus times on the GH4.

But I don't think GH4 has a faster AF/better hit rate in a real sports shooting scenario.

But how do you know that? What are you basing your opinion on? There is nothing in a physics sense that says a DSLR has to be faster than mirrorless, so if your only argument is "well it hasn't happened yet" , that's pretty thin. The reason a DSLR has been ahead is because the reflex mirror and PDAF have been developing for decades. The problem with that system is it is very hardware dependent, every shot the AF module loses sight of the target, thanks to the flipping mirror.

Software based, on sensor AF does not have this limitation and is only really limited by processing power, and partially by lens motor speed. In an age where smart phones have octa-core CPUs, i think your argument is just about to die off. MFT for example have lenses with much less mass and are physically able to AF faster, now we are bringing faster processing to the mix. Get ready for a change in paradigm.

-- hide signature --

"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

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Nikon D7000 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G
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josbiker
Regular MemberPosts: 348Gear list
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to PerL, 5 months ago

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances. It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok. (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

What about 4Kvideo and 8 megapixels prints from that! and 30 pictures in a second.Which camera can do that!

For sure the GH4 can, so what is in 2014 a action or sport camera?

Video is video, another game (Professional still photographers won't be allowed to shot video in big games/competitions that sells video rights to broadcast companies).

Being able to shot at 30 fps instead of 10-12 fps brings very little to the table to the sports photographers. There has been very few interesting sports images from for instance the Casio high speed cameras (60-100 fps). You only got thousands of more boring shots to select from.

The challenge is to to frame the shot, to get interesting angles, light etc - not to "film" the event. There is no problem catching the moment with skill, anticipation, super fast shutter response and 10-12 fps. The AF-C on Nikon/Canon pro cameras is already so fast that you can virtually shot anything in the way of sports.

Thanks

Use that when you can use it and when it is not possible to use, use than the faster auto-focus times on the GH4.

But I don't think GH4 has a faster AF/better hit rate in a real sports shooting scenario.

Please

It is not what you think it is a matter of knowing, again see the figures at chip.de.

 josbiker's gear list:josbiker's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Panasonic 12-35mm F2.8 Panasonic Lumix G X Vario 35-100mm F2.8 OIS +2 more
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PerL
Forum ProPosts: 12,598
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Re: Stunning...
In reply to Ontario Gone, 5 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

PerL wrote:

Use that when you can use it and when it is not possible to use, use than the faster auto-focus times on the GH4.

But I don't think GH4 has a faster AF/better hit rate in a real sports shooting scenario.

But how do you know that? What are you basing your opinion on? There is nothing in a physics sense that says a DSLR has to be faster than mirrorless, so if your only argument is "well it hasn't happened yet" , that's pretty thin. The reason a DSLR has been ahead is because the reflex mirror and PDAF have been developing for decades. The problem with that system is it is very hardware dependent, every shot the AF module loses sight of the target, thanks to the flipping mirror.

I am spectical because I have heard for years the "worlds fastest AF" claim, not the least from Panasonic. I remain so until I have seen something that convinces me. I want to see thight shots with shallow DOF of real sports/action scenarios, not small kids running, midtown traffic, turists on bikes, not kit lenses or slow teles shot in bright light with excessive DOF, etc. Show some striking shots that could be published in Sports Illustrated.

The "flipping mirror" argument was one of the things that sounded interesting when Sony introduced the SLT series with the fixed mirror, but I when I tested a few of them it made little difference in  practical use. The AF-C was good, but not quite as good as the Canon 1DMK4 I compared it to. I think AF-C adapted to the real sports shooting scenarios is more complicated than people knows. Canon/Nikon has decades of know-how, developed in fierce competition and in dialog with the professionals. That is why Olympus or Pentax or Sony DSLRs never is quite as good in AF-C, at least in my experience.

Software based, on sensor AF does not have this limitation and is only really limited by processing power, and partially by lens motor speed. In an age where smart phones have octa-core CPUs, i think your argument is just about to die off. MFT for example have lenses with much less mass and are physically able to AF faster, now we are bringing faster processing to the mix. Get ready for a change in paradigm.

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"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

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PerL
Forum ProPosts: 12,598
Like?
Re: Stunning...
In reply to josbiker, 5 months ago

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

PerL wrote:

josbiker wrote:

According to Chip.de look and see!

Canon EOS 1D X, NIKON D4S, GH4.

Attention the start-up time with the GH4 is ALWAYS in LIVE-View!

The GH4 WINS in all the autofocus-times.

Please, JOSBIKER

...the amount of incompetent AF/Action shooting tests that are surfacing on review sites, that never had a professional sports/action shooter in the staff, now that another batch of cameras that claims to have "the fastest AF in the world" is out on the market.

My guess - in the world cup in soccer this summer, we still will see the traditional pro cameras on the sidelines.

I only see figures and not a statement!

Isn't "THE "BEST" SPORT AND ACTION camera" camera a statement? And a rather bold one?

You are so smart? But figures stay figures! Look up and see that this NOT a statement but the naked truth!

I am not so sure it is so smart to draw the conclusion that the figures means that a Panasonic GH4 is "the best sports and action camera".

Do you think they are proof that you could shot an fast paced low light indoor sports games, with unpredictable player movement, with shallow DOF with better results in IQ, impact and keeper rate than a Canon 1DX/Nikon D4S with professional lenses? Would the GH4 produce more publishing-worthy shots than the professional workhorses from Canon/Nikon?

While I don't think the GH4 or other mirrorless will be replacing FF pro cameras for things like the world cup (not yet anyway), I do think in terms of mirrorless cameras and autofocus, they ARE just about there.

Note...not saying for IQ, just for AF....though IQ is pretty good from all of them too.

A LOT of people are selling mirrorless cameras (not just M/43) AF short.

Even my GX7 and FF A7 which can both be said to not be the best cameras for AF are actually pretty good and can track well too.

They both can do 5fps which is fairly pedestrian these days but AF is fine (even in low light for me).

Then, there are cameras like the Fuji X-T1, Sony A6000 and the GH4......all seem to have very good AF and including tracking.

From what I have seen and from the first reviews, the AF does seem to work as hyped.

Some people have some issues with the A6000 but most find it great....some reviewers find it tracks well even at 11fps (though may not have fully tested it with fast lenses in the most "testing" circumstances. It seems there are some people who almost want the Sony to fail....I think that it may end up being very effective with some lenses and maybe a bit less so in the most trying of circumstances ...but at the price may well be the best bang for buck as far as a lower level camera and AF goes.

The Fuji maybe somewhere in the middle....a higher level camera than the A6000 and with great AF but not quite up to the Sony but maybe a touch more accurate with fast lenses.

The GH4 while a bit slower in terms of FPS AF with tracking, will work in lower level light....AF accuracy seems ok. (and 40fps burst at full size with focus and exposure locked could be very handy....GX7 can do it but only at small size ...ok for web or small prints).

There are plenty of users of FF and high level APSC DSLRs who have come to these new mirrorless cameras who claim as far as focus, that the new cameras are at least as good.

The GH4 will sell to a LOT of pro photographers as well as videographers and an increasing number who will do both.

The A6000 will sell to lots of parents of fast running kids and others who want a cheap camera with decent focus (and many will have DSLRs).

The world has changed a LOT in the last year or so but especially in the last few months.

What about 4Kvideo and 8 megapixels prints from that! and 30 pictures in a second.Which camera can do that!

For sure the GH4 can, so what is in 2014 a action or sport camera?

Video is video, another game (Professional still photographers won't be allowed to shot video in big games/competitions that sells video rights to broadcast companies).

Being able to shot at 30 fps instead of 10-12 fps brings very little to the table to the sports photographers. There has been very few interesting sports images from for instance the Casio high speed cameras (60-100 fps). You only got thousands of more boring shots to select from.

The challenge is to to frame the shot, to get interesting angles, light etc - not to "film" the event. There is no problem catching the moment with skill, anticipation, super fast shutter response and 10-12 fps. The AF-C on Nikon/Canon pro cameras is already so fast that you can virtually shot anything in the way of sports.

Thanks

Use that when you can use it and when it is not possible to use, use than the faster auto-focus times on the GH4.

But I don't think GH4 has a faster AF/better hit rate in a real sports shooting scenario.

Please

It is not what you think it is a matter of knowing, again see the figures at chip.de.

No, it is seeing photos that proves the point that matters. You can't sell a figure to an editor.

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