G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Ranlee
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G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
8 months ago

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something?  Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter.  I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

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Grobb
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Ranlee, 8 months ago

Ranlee wrote:

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something?

Yes, you forgot to post a few macro pictures. Do you have any you care to share?

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Ranlee
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Grobb, 8 months ago

tron555 wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something?

Yes, you forgot to post a few macro pictures. Do you have any you care to share?

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Randy

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Actually I did post some in a previous thread I started.  Testing at different apertures.  I believe it has moved down to page 2 now Tron.  As for today, I was simply testing focusing distances and not taking examples for posting.

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Max@Home
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Ranlee, 8 months ago

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not.

True, MacroMode on the G1X Mk2 is a focus-delimiter, not a mode that gives 'extra lower AF distance'

In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states.

Macro distances are always measured from the sensor plane, not from the front element

This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

see previous remark

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

Correct, that is what the manual says about macro-mode, at 24mm it prevents the camera to AF Lock on anything further away than approx. 106.5com

So I guess my question is, why is it even there?

To help AF at the wide end

Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter.

Yes, why would you, why would anybody, why would such a focus-delimiter be 'standard' on every serious Macro lens, lensbuilders must be really stupid

I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

in several cases/scenario's you will miss the ability to quickly AF up-close (so without the camera hunting from 106.5 cm to infinity and back) while in wide-angle/24mm setting. When that happens, remember that useless MacroMode

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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brianj
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Ranlee, 8 months ago

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback.

Brian

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Ranlee
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Max@Home, 8 months ago

Max@Home wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not.

True, MacroMode on the G1X Mk2 is a focus-delimiter, not a mode that gives 'extra lower AF distance'

In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states.

Macro distances are always measured from the sensor plane, not from the front element

This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

see previous remark

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

Correct, that is what the manual says about macro-mode, at 24mm it prevents the camera to AF Lock on anything further away than approx. 106.5com

So I guess my question is, why is it even there?

To help AF at the wide end

Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter.

Yes, why would you, why would anybody, why would such a focus-delimiter be 'standard' on every serious Macro lens, lensbuilders must be really stupid

I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

in several cases/scenario's you will miss the ability to quickly AF up-close (so without the camera hunting from 106.5 cm to infinity and back) while in wide-angle/24mm setting. When that happens, remember that useless MacroMode

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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Thanks Max.   65 years old and I still don't know everything - darn it!  Thanks also for all the smilies to  help temper my ignorance.  Seriously, I got a chuckle out of them but I still might ignore macro mode (most of the time).;-)

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Randy

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Ranlee
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback.

Brian

Actually it apparently does work.  See Max@home post above.

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Randy

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Ranlee, 8 months ago

Ranlee wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback.

Brian

Actually it apparently does work. See Max@home post above.

Someone will find a silver lining in every cloud.

Brian

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback

Please read again, as it actually works perfectly, but you have to know why it's there and what it's function is: it is (designed and build as) a focus-delimiter switch, making the camera 'concentrate' on Macro/CloseUp without it looking at AF 'distractions' from 'further back'

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Max@Home, 8 months ago

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback

Please read again, as it actually works perfectly, but you have to know why it's there and what it's function is: it is (designed and build as) a focus-delimiter switch, making the camera 'concentrate' on Macro/CloseUp without it looking at AF 'distractions' from 'further back'

IMO to 'work' it would need to do this function as well as allow it to focus from 3cm down to 1cm.

Brian

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Max@Home
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

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Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback.

Brian

Actually it apparently does work. See Max@home post above.

Someone will find a silver lining in every cloud

Others see a glass as 'half-empty' while it actually is only 'half-full'

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

-- hide signature --

Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback

Please read again, as it actually works perfectly, but you have to know why it's there and what it's function is: it is (designed and build as) a focus-delimiter switch, making the camera 'concentrate' on Macro/CloseUp without it looking at AF 'distractions' from 'further back'

IMO to 'work' it would need to do this function as well as allow it to focus from 3cm down to 1cm.

So the switch should somehow magically change the lens specifications and allow AF at 1 cm...

Perhaps you could make a 'wide open aperture' switch on my 70-200F2.8 that allows it to open to F2.0 ?

...€0.02...

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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brianj
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Max@Home, 8 months ago

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

-- hide signature --

Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback

Please read again, as it actually works perfectly, but you have to know why it's there and what it's function is: it is (designed and build as) a focus-delimiter switch, making the camera 'concentrate' on Macro/CloseUp without it looking at AF 'distractions' from 'further back'

IMO to 'work' it would need to do this function as well as allow it to focus from 3cm down to 1cm.

So the switch should somehow magically change the lens specifications and allow AF at 1 cm...

Perhaps you could make a 'wide open aperture' switch on my 70-200F2.8 that allows it to open to F2.0 ?

...€0.02...

That's not my job, its canon's job, what I am saying is that it would be no good for me as I use one camera and it must do everything.

Brian

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Ranlee
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

-- hide signature --

Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback

Please read again, as it actually works perfectly, but you have to know why it's there and what it's function is: it is (designed and build as) a focus-delimiter switch, making the camera 'concentrate' on Macro/CloseUp without it looking at AF 'distractions' from 'further back'

IMO to 'work' it would need to do this function as well as allow it to focus from 3cm down to 1cm.

So the switch should somehow magically change the lens specifications and allow AF at 1 cm...

Perhaps you could make a 'wide open aperture' switch on my 70-200F2.8 that allows it to open to F2.0 ?

...€0.02...

That's not my job, its canon's job, what I am saying is that it would be no good for me as I use one camera and it must do everything.

Brian

Brian, I'm not sure you are understanding the point of my original post.  I expect I didn't explain well enough.  I am not/was not complaining about the close focus ability.  If anything I think it focuses closer than the specs (Canon) says it should.  That's why I referred to that as a "good thing".  I simply was not seeing/realizing what the benefit of the macro setting was since it focused just as close whether in it or not.

I do believe I have had cameras in the past that focused closer in macro mode than when not in macro mode and perhaps that confused me and perhaps you too.  Never the less, Max's description makes sense, certainly for the G1XmkII and I assume in general.  The close focusing ability of the G1XmkII is quite an improvement over the G1X.

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Ranlee, 8 months ago

Ranlee wrote:

brianj wrote:

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Max@Home wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ranlee wrote:

First, my version focuses just as close whether in Macro mode or not. In fact, it focuses even closer than specs. As close as 3cm (1.18") to the front (glass) of the lens instead of the 5cm (2") the manual states. This is at the 24mm equiv. FL.

At the long end mine focuses from 34.3cm (13.5") to infinity which is approximately 7.62cm (3") closer than the manual states. This is a good thing, and I'm happy about it!

Now for the second part: My testing shows that the only thing Macro mode does is limit focusing ability from 3cm to a maximum of approximately 3.5' (106.5cm) at 24mm equivalent. At the long end macro mode does nothing at all.

So I guess my question is, why is it even there? Am I missing something? Why would I even want to limit the maximum focus at 24mm equiv. focal length or any focal length for that matter. I simply will ignore macro from now on unless I really am missing something.

-- hide signature --

Randy

In other words, macro mode doesn't work, I would consider that to be an extreme drawback

Please read again, as it actually works perfectly, but you have to know why it's there and what it's function is: it is (designed and build as) a focus-delimiter switch, making the camera 'concentrate' on Macro/CloseUp without it looking at AF 'distractions' from 'further back'

IMO to 'work' it would need to do this function as well as allow it to focus from 3cm down to 1cm.

So the switch should somehow magically change the lens specifications and allow AF at 1 cm...

Perhaps you could make a 'wide open aperture' switch on my 70-200F2.8 that allows it to open to F2.0 ?

...€0.02...

That's not my job, its canon's job, what I am saying is that it would be no good for me as I use one camera and it must do everything.

Brian

Brian, I'm not sure you are understanding the point of my original post. I expect I didn't explain well enough. I am not/was not complaining about the close focus ability. If anything I think it focuses closer than the specs (Canon) says it should. That's why I referred to that as a "good thing". I simply was not seeing/realizing what the benefit of the macro setting was since it focused just as close whether in it or not.

I did understand that point, maybe I went off on a slight tangent describing how that would affect me personally.

I do believe I have had cameras in the past that focused closer in macro mode than when not in macro mode and perhaps that confused me and perhaps you too. Never the less, Max's description makes sense, certainly for the G1XmkII and I assume in general. The close focusing ability of the G1XmkII is quite an improvement over the G1X.

I agree, what Max described was good and I haven't seen that functionality before, but it also skirts around the the fact that the G1X MKII doesn't have the ability to shoot macro, even though it is better than the G1X.

The reason why I get excited over this is because in their obsession to get the camera with the biggest sensor squeezed in, like the sony RX100, they overlook what has been lost, to get the ability to shoot in lower light at higher ISO, even though they may seldom have the need to do that.  Its not a good tradeoff in IMO.

Brian

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

The reason why I get excited over this is because in their obsession to get the camera with the biggest sensor squeezed in, like the sony RX100, they overlook what has been lost, to get the ability to shoot in lower light at higher ISO, even though they may seldom have the need to do that. Its not a good tradeoff in IMO.

I, on the other hand, NEED a large sensor and the ability to shoot in lower light at higher ISO a LOT more than I need a close up of a bee.

Isn't it lucky there's more than one camera on the market?

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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

That's not my job, its canon's job, what I am saying is that it would be no good for me as I use one camera and it must do everything.

After half a century of photography I haven't found it.

When you do, please be sure to let DPReview know.

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brianj
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to GaryJP, 8 months ago

GaryJP wrote:

brianj wrote:

That's not my job, its canon's job, what I am saying is that it would be no good for me as I use one camera and it must do everything.

After half a century of photography I haven't found it.

When you do, please be sure to let DPReview know.

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I should have added, 'that I require' just as you do need to shoot in the dark a lot, so need a larger sensor as in the G1X II .

That cameras that I can announce here is the two I own, the SX260 and IXUS 255.

So I agree that it does need to suit the owners needs, and maybe it would have offended less people if I had not stated in this thread that the G1x II does not meet my needs.  Posts cannot be removed once said.

Brian

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GaryJP
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to brianj, 8 months ago

brianj wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

brianj wrote:

That's not my job, its canon's job, what I am saying is that it would be no good for me as I use one camera and it must do everything.

After half a century of photography I haven't found it.

When you do, please be sure to let DPReview know.

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I should have added, 'that I require' just as you do need to shoot in the dark a lot, so need a larger sensor as in the G1X II .

That cameras that I can announce here is the two I own, the SX260 and IXUS 255.

So I agree that it does need to suit the owners needs, and maybe it would have offended less people if I had not stated in this thread that the G1x II does not meet my needs. Posts cannot be removed once said.

Brian

Well said Brian. Yes, I think all cameras must be compromises and all any of us can do is look for the compromises, and the aesthetic characteristics, that best suit us.

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Augustin Man
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Re: G1XmkII - No need for Macro mode...
In reply to Max@Home, 8 months ago

Max@Home wrote:

Macro distances are always measured from the sensor plane, not from the front element

Kindest regards,

Max@Home

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Sorry for breaking in in a thread I have no connection with, but I just want to learn more: if the macro distance is measured from the sensor plane, how is that for SX50 that distance is 0 (zero!) ?

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-powershot-sx50-hs/2

and also everywhere else.

Thank you for taking time to answer me,

Augustin

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