Leica T is out, but for who?

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Alxy
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Leica T is out, but for who?
3 months ago

Leica T is out.

If this camera would be released by any other company you would think somebody went crazy over there. An APS-C camera for 1850$? With 2 native lenses available. First is the zoom 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6. Looks like the cheap zooms that come for almost nothing with most of the interchangeable lens cameras today. The only difference - it will cost 1700$. That's one extra zero. The second lens is 23mm f/2.0 for 1900$, not a super-fast one by any standard, but super-expensive by the most.

Let's take Canon M system for example. They have very similar camera with 2 lenses, when it was first released. Would anybody take this camera seriously at 1850$ for a body and 1700$ for Canon EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM? I guess not, sounds like a 1st of April joke. But for Leica the price and mediocrity of the T system looks to be Ok.

What makes Leica special in their niche are small full format cameras with small, fast and sharp lenses. Actually the smallest compared to other lenses for full format, the fastest (50mm f/0.95) and the sharpest with highest images quality. The other niche is the the larger-than-full frame S system, which is well regarded as well for the image quality.

Leica T wants to ride the wave of Leica's success without actually offering anything special. It is like a son of a rich and famous guy, who gets along using connections, money any name of his father. It appears to be an average camera put into an expensive metal body and sold for an astronomical price.

In comparison, in the past years all companies have made significant advances in all areas and some new systems have appear with innovative designs - Sony A7/A7r with Carl Zeiss lenses, Fujifilm X with small and fast lenses, M43rd Olympus E-M1 with really small lenses, may be you can think of some other ones.

This new Leica is not for a gear-head or a photographer. It is for a rich person seeking a point-and-shoot style camera, who does not know what to do with the money and wants to have the label to show-off, to get somehow associated with Leica's past success.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment. Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

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Jozef M
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Yes, this is all very true, ... and it's not for me.

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Elden Bishop
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Jozef M, 3 months ago

I think it is for me.

I want a small, light, minimalist, well built camera with small, light, high quality lenses and at least APS-C sensor size.

All of the complaints about the camera are fixable over time. Shutter speed, iso performance, focus speed are all body/sensor issues that will be fixed in future cameras. I'm not buying a camera, I'm buying into a lens system. Being a generation back in-body is a non-issue for me when contemplating the viability of a system.

This Leica is everything I hoped the NEX system would be. Aside from price, this Leica is exactly what I wanted when first getting into photography. It also has a huge mount that will easily accept a full frame sensor at some future time.

What you have then is a perfect base for building an amazing camera by a company committed to small high quality lenses.

So I just might buy this thing.

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tinpusher
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Elden Bishop, 3 months ago

I like the look of it but I'll  buy an X Vario if the price of that falls some more or perhaps wait to see if Panasonic bring out an equivalent camera using the same Japanese lenses.

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drkgrrts
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Elden Bishop, 3 months ago

Ever considered Ricoh GXR with M-mount module?

Design apart, only a vastly superior image quality would make the Leica T a better option than the GXR. Okay, maybe the EVF is better on the Leica T - but then again, the GXR has focus peaking to assist the EVF, and the Leica T doesn't. And as far as image quality goes, the M-mount module on the GXR has microlenses specifically designed for Leica M lenses, which I don't think is the case for the Leica T.

(Of course, this only applies if you're happy with manual focus M-lenses. I realize that that is not a self-evident assumption.)

Elden Bishop wrote:

I think it is for me.

I want a small, light, minimalist, well built camera with small, light, high quality lenses and at least APS-C sensor size.

All of the complaints about the camera are fixable over time. Shutter speed, iso performance, focus speed are all body/sensor issues that will be fixed in future cameras. I'm not buying a camera, I'm buying into a lens system. Being a generation back in-body is a non-issue for me when contemplating the viability of a system.

This Leica is everything I hoped the NEX system would be. Aside from price, this Leica is exactly what I wanted when first getting into photography. It also has a huge mount that will easily accept a full frame sensor at some future time.

What you have then is a perfect base for building an amazing camera by a company committed to small high quality lenses.

So I just might buy this thing.

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sigala1
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Very suspicious that camera will be any good
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

If this camera would be released by any other company you would think somebody went crazy over there. An APS-C camera for 1850$? With 2 native lenses available. First is the zoom 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6. Looks like the cheap zooms that come for almost nothing with most of the interchangeable lens cameras today. The only difference - it will cost 1700$. That's one extra zero. The second lens is 23mm f/2.0 for 1900$, not a super-fast one by any standard, but super-expensive by the most.

Let's take Canon M system for example. They have very similar camera with 2 lenses, when it was first released. Would anybody take this camera seriously at 1850$ for a body and 1700$ for Canon EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM? I guess not, sounds like a 1st of April joke. But for Leica the price and mediocrity of the T system looks to be Ok.

What makes Leica special in their niche are small full format cameras with small, fast and sharp lenses. Actually the smallest compared to other lenses for full format, the fastest (50mm f/0.95) and the sharpest with highest images quality. The other niche is the the larger-than-full frame S system, which is well regarded as well for the image quality.

Leica T wants to ride the wave of Leica's success without actually offering anything special. It is like a son of a rich and famous guy, who gets along using connections, money any name of his father. It appears to be an average camera put into an expensive metal body and sold for an astronomical price.

In comparison, in the past years all companies have made significant advances in all areas and some new systems have appear with innovative designs - Sony A7/A7r with Carl Zeiss lenses, Fujifilm X with small and fast lenses, M43rd Olympus E-M1 with really small lenses, may be you can think of some other ones.

This new Leica is not for a gear-head or a photographer. It is for a rich person seeking a point-and-shoot style camera, who does not know what to do with the money and wants to have the label to show-off, to get somehow associated with Leica's past success.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment. Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

My Olympus cameras have their annoyances and quirks, but it's foolish to assume that a Leica camera will be superior just because they are charging so much money for it. The established mirrorless companies have had years to work on improving their cameras. (Leica may have been making mirrorless film cameras for a century, but a mirrorless digital camera is completely and different and vastly more complex technology.)

If the lenses are true Leica-quality, then they would have been more appreciated for established cameras like Sony or Micro Four Thirds rather than Leica trying to go its own way with a new system.

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Samaistuin
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Alxy wrote:

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Uh? The only two major issues I have with the T aren't in your list.
And these are:

  1. No dedicated aperture ring on the lenses.
  2. No dedicated exposure lock button on the body.
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zenfr2009
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Not for me ...
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

I'll keep my GX7, for seven reasons:

-Image stabilization

-Maximum shutter speed 1/8000

-Swivel screen

-Built-in EVF

-AF/AE lock button

-EV compensation wheel

-Reasonable price

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Harold66
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Re: WRONG on the facts
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

REALLY ? And how many reviews would that be considering the camera is out for one day and all reviewers worthy of that title only had a preview of the camera. Not sure what your agenda is but your answers are suspicious.. To say the keast

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment.

Says who ? Who made you the king ?

Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

APS  is BY FAR with m4/3rds the dominant sensir size in the mirorless market. Mirorless systems in aps size AND SMALLER represent in volume at least 95% of sales. 35mm sensor for mirorless cameras WITH  interchangeable market is a NICHE. Market and will remain that way fir years to come. And not to mention that it would make even LESS sense for Leica to go that road considering the M. Lens line- up

I assume you are just confusing what the market wants with what YOU want. Maybe you should get a R1

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

partially true , which i guess is ok considering what is coming next

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

so what. ? The question is who really needs it ? Very few people i suspect

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

yes and hiw do you justify this on a camera aimed at being used from the touch LCD.  You should really try to THINK. Before you write

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

SIMPLY NOT. True

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

Even LESS. true than the one before.

you clearly do not have a lot of verified facts in your thread

i personnally have zero interest in this camera but I think making up stuff as you go is a form of trolling

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Daedalus2000
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Re: WRONG on the facts
In reply to Harold66, 3 months ago

Sorry Harrold66 I do not know who you are, as I have not seen you posting here before (I may be wrong), but in this forum we do not respond to people's opinions in that tone and we do not shout at them, so chill out, and if you have anything useful to say, say it the proper way, politely and with good arguments. Using capital letters also shows that you feel you arguments are weak and need to be shouted rather than stated.

Harold66 wrote:

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

REALLY ? And how many reviews would that be considering the camera is out for one day and all reviewers worthy of that title only had a preview of the camera. Not sure what your agenda is but your answers are suspicious.. To say the keast

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment.

Says who ? Who made you the king ?

Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

APS is BY FAR with m4/3rds the dominant sensir size in the mirorless market. Mirorless systems in aps size AND SMALLER represent in volume at least 95% of sales. 35mm sensor for mirorless cameras WITH interchangeable market is a NICHE. Market and will remain that way fir years to come. And not to mention that it would make even LESS sense for Leica to go that road considering the M. Lens line- up

I assume you are just confusing what the market wants with what YOU want. Maybe you should get a R1

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

partially true , which i guess is ok considering what is coming next

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

so what. ? The question is who really needs it ? Very few people i suspect

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

yes and hiw do you justify this on a camera aimed at being used from the touch LCD. You should really try to THINK. Before you write

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

SIMPLY NOT. True

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

Even LESS. true than the one before.

you clearly do not have a lot of verified facts in your thread

i personnally have zero interest in this camera but I think making up stuff as you go is a form of trolling

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darngooddesign
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

If this camera would be released by any other company you would think somebody went crazy over there. An APS-C camera for 1850$? With 2 native lenses available. First is the zoom 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6. Looks like the cheap zooms that come for almost nothing with most of the interchangeable lens cameras today. The only difference - it will cost 1700$. That's one extra zero. The second lens is 23mm f/2.0 for 1900$, not a super-fast one by any standard, but super-expensive by the most.

That sounds mostly like the Fuji X-Pro. 1800 at launch and only three prime lenses, admittedly they were affordable lenses.

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DJF77
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to darngooddesign, 3 months ago

slow overpriced lenses and an expensive digital body that will be old tech in a year... Give me a Fuji or Olympus with their gorgeous fast lenses any day.

I'll be amazed if Leica persist with the T for more than a few years, I may buy into the Leica system one day... But it will definitely not be the T system.

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mgatov
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

I may be in the minority, but I like what Leica is doing with this camera.  It gives me the three things that I would want from a Leica:  quality build, ability to use the M lenses, and the 'Leica-look' to the images.  I had derision for the Vario due to a non-interchangeable slow telephoto, but I could not quibble about the excellent images it could produce in decent light.  I will be very interested to see what people can do with this camera, and how it compares to images from the Fuji X-T1.

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Harold66
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Re: WRONG on the facts
In reply to Daedalus2000, 3 months ago

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Sorry Harrold66 I do not know who you are, as I have not seen you posting here before (I may be wrong), but in this forum we do not respond to people's opinions in that tone and we do not shout at them, so chill out, and if you have anything useful to say, say it the proper way, politely and with good arguments. Using capital letters also shows that you feel you arguments are weak and need to be shouted rather than stated.

Hello

I am kind of aware that using capital letters are considered  as shouting  which I always found kind of silly since this is a written silent forum

I do not use capital letters in all of my message but as  part to stress some of the most important points  I was making , like it has been done in most languages since ... well since forever

so if you want to read something else in the use of capital letters that what it means in English grammar  it is your privilege but I am not following you on this path

You are correct in stating that I normally do not post in the Leica forum since I do not own a leica camera anymore but that is not really relevant to the point I was making

Regardless of the forums , I sometimes feel the need to  alert other people s attention when instead of posting an OPINION , someone makes a lot of strong assertions ( like facts) which are plain untrue

too  bad you take issue on it but  I think you are missing my point entirely. Maybe some others won 't

Harold

Harold66 wrote:

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

REALLY ? And how many reviews would that be considering the camera is out for one day and all reviewers worthy of that title only had a preview of the camera. Not sure what your agenda is but your answers are suspicious.. To say the keast

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment.

Says who ? Who made you the king ?

Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

APS is BY FAR with m4/3rds the dominant sensir size in the mirorless market. Mirorless systems in aps size AND SMALLER represent in volume at least 95% of sales. 35mm sensor for mirorless cameras WITH interchangeable market is a NICHE. Market and will remain that way fir years to come. And not to mention that it would make even LESS sense for Leica to go that road considering the M. Lens line- up

I assume you are just confusing what the market wants with what YOU want. Maybe you should get a R1

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

partially true , which i guess is ok considering what is coming next

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

so what. ? The question is who really needs it ? Very few people i suspect

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

yes and hiw do you justify this on a camera aimed at being used from the touch LCD. You should really try to THINK. Before you write

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

SIMPLY NOT. True

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

Even LESS. true than the one before.

you clearly do not have a lot of verified facts in your thread

i personnally have zero interest in this camera but I think making up stuff as you go is a form of trolling

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Daedalus2000
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Re: WRONG on the facts
In reply to Harold66, 3 months ago

Harold66 wrote:

Daedalus2000 wrote:

Sorry Harrold66 I do not know who you are, as I have not seen you posting here before (I may be wrong), but in this forum we do not respond to people's opinions in that tone and we do not shout at them, so chill out, and if you have anything useful to say, say it the proper way, politely and with good arguments. Using capital letters also shows that you feel you arguments are weak and need to be shouted rather than stated.

Hello

First of all thanks for your reply.

Since you seem to like a good dialogue, let me try to reply to your points.

I am kind of aware that using capital letters are considered as shouting which I always found kind of silly since this is a written silent forum

Ok, everyone else that communicates on the internet has given a specific meaning to a specific form or writing that enriches the communication experience and you decide to ignore it. Interesting... I hope you understand that if everyone did the same, we would not be able to communicate at all.

Anyway, if you state that you do not use capital letter to shout, I believe you and move on.

I do not use capital letters in all of my message but as part to stress some of the most important points I was making , like it has been done in most languages since ... well since forever

I have never seen anyone using capital letter to stress a point. I have seen it on labels. Underlying is used for stressing part of a sentence, but anyway.

so if you want to read something else in the use of capital letters that what it means in English grammar it is your privilege but I am not following you on this path

I will follow you down your own personal path, no problem.

You are correct in stating that I normally do not post in the Leica forum since I do not own a leica camera anymore but that is not really relevant to the point I was making

That is irrelevant to our discussion I was making a point that I do not know you, kind as a polite introduction.

Regardless of the forums , I sometimes feel the need to alert other people s attention when instead of posting an OPINION , someone makes a lot of strong assertions ( like facts) which are plain untrue

when someone states something, it is not implied automatically that he makes an assertion, it can be a statement of opinion. You are (potentially) misinterpreting what he writes. You are too sensitive in this case (in my opinion of course).

too bad you take issue on it but I think you are missing my point entirely. Maybe some others won 't

I am just letting you know what is the preferred way of communicating in this forum. You are very welcome to contribute but I found your strong tone based on a subjective interpretation of what someone wrote a bit rude actually. If you are interested, keep reading my comments to your comments.

Harold

Harold66 wrote:

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

REALLY ? And how many reviews would that be considering the camera is out for one day and all reviewers worthy of that title only had a preview of the camera. Not sure what your agenda is but your answers are suspicious.. To say the keast

His statement is correct, the camera is slow in some respects. Immediately you see an agenda where there is none.

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment.

Says who ? Who made you the king ?

You may have a point here, but he states his view nicely and in the next sentence completes his view which may be valid for his expectations and comparative analysis. Therefore, your second sentence is unnecessary and rude in my opinion.

Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

APS is BY FAR with m4/3rds the dominant sensir size in the mirorless market. Mirorless systems in aps size AND SMALLER represent in volume at least 95% of sales. 35mm sensor for mirorless cameras WITH interchangeable market is a NICHE. Market and will remain that way fir years to come. And not to mention that it would make even LESS sense for Leica to go that road considering the M. Lens line- up

I assume you are just confusing what the market wants with what YOU want. Maybe you should get a R1

Again he states a preference. No need to tell him he is confused. Unnecessary and rude.

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

partially true , which i guess is ok considering what is coming next

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

so what. ? The question is who really needs it ? Very few people i suspect

Now, you are stating something as a potential fact. I choose to interpret it as an opinion, if I follow your interpretation I should think you are stating false facts...

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

yes and hiw do you justify this on a camera aimed at being used from the touch LCD. You should really try to THINK. Before you write

Again, you may have a point, you may not, as he talks about weather sealing not waterproof. Do you really need to try to insult?

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

SIMPLY NOT. True

Most of them have it, so it is more valid than your statement.

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

Even LESS. true than the one before.

you are right, but sony does, fuji does, nikon does, canon does, so he is probably thinking about these companies.

you clearly do not have a lot of verified facts in your thread

Neither do you. Shall we get upset with you?

i personnally have zero interest in this camera but I think making up stuff as you go is a form of trolling

It is not. His statements were his opinions and his points, and although not perfect, have some validity. Accusing him of trolling is completely unnecessary.

Why did I wrote all these? Because in this forum we value politeness and we are also adults and we can cope with different views, half baked facts and potential trolls. What we can not cope with is rudeness. Also, do not get so upset with people, different people/cultures express themselves with different levels of intensity and assertion. Let's all be friends!

To change the subject, I see you post in the Ricoh forum. I think the GR is one of the best cameras around and I saw somewhere that the GXR out-resolves the new Leica T when used with Leica lenses... I just wish Ricoh was able to continue developing that line.

Best, D

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villagranvicent
Forum MemberPosts: 78Gear list
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to tinpusher, 3 months ago

tinpusher wrote:

I like the look of it but I'll buy an X Vario if the price of that falls some more or perhaps wait to see if Panasonic bring out an equivalent camera using the same Japanese lenses.

Just last week I bought a black Leica X1 still under warranty -in mint condition- for 685usd, I guess this new T would be better (in IQ at least) but not $3000+ better!! with what I payed I could barely afford the T viewfinder!!

 villagranvicent's gear list:villagranvicent's gear list
Leica X1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1 Canon EOS 550D Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II +1 more
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Ron A 19
Junior MemberPosts: 45Gear list
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Well put!

I liked Leica when they were selling products that nobody could match. When they were showing off the images and art that one could create with their products. Nowadays, I think many other companies have caught up technically in terms of image quality (Zeiss, Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Fuji and even Sigma, probably others). Ignoring size or price, if you compared the current Leica M 50mm Apo to the Sigma 50mm art at f2, the Sigma will likely be technically superior. Leica talks about milling aluminum blocks like it has never been done (unlike the billion devices sold by Apple).

From what I can tell, Leica is embracing the transformation into a boutique optics manufacturer. Since they can't compete with Japanese camera makers in electronics or in price, they improve the fit and finish of their products by adding a bit more metal and pushing prices to increase profits. Even posting 40 minutes of obscure sanding of an aluminum camera unibody.

At the same time, I'm pretty happy that the average consumer can finally own products that surpass that of Leica.

Alxy wrote:

Leica T is out.

If this camera would be released by any other company you would think somebody went crazy over there. An APS-C camera for 1850$? With 2 native lenses available. First is the zoom 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6. Looks like the cheap zooms that come for almost nothing with most of the interchangeable lens cameras today. The only difference - it will cost 1700$. That's one extra zero. The second lens is 23mm f/2.0 for 1900$, not a super-fast one by any standard, but super-expensive by the most.

Let's take Canon M system for example. They have very similar camera with 2 lenses, when it was first released. Would anybody take this camera seriously at 1850$ for a body and 1700$ for Canon EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM? I guess not, sounds like a 1st of April joke. But for Leica the price and mediocrity of the T system looks to be Ok.

What makes Leica special in their niche are small full format cameras with small, fast and sharp lenses. Actually the smallest compared to other lenses for full format, the fastest (50mm f/0.95) and the sharpest with highest images quality. The other niche is the the larger-than-full frame S system, which is well regarded as well for the image quality.

Leica T wants to ride the wave of Leica's success without actually offering anything special. It is like a son of a rich and famous guy, who gets along using connections, money any name of his father. It appears to be an average camera put into an expensive metal body and sold for an astronomical price.

In comparison, in the past years all companies have made significant advances in all areas and some new systems have appear with innovative designs - Sony A7/A7r with Carl Zeiss lenses, Fujifilm X with small and fast lenses, M43rd Olympus E-M1 with really small lenses, may be you can think of some other ones.

This new Leica is not for a gear-head or a photographer. It is for a rich person seeking a point-and-shoot style camera, who does not know what to do with the money and wants to have the label to show-off, to get somehow associated with Leica's past success.

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Slow in many regards, according to the reviews.

AF is contrast detect only, no PDAF. A must today for new cameras of this segment. Fujifilm X-E2, X-T1, Sony A7, Sony A6000, Canon M2, Nikon 1, Olympus E-M1 have it. Basically each company now has it.

Sensor size - APS-C. Sony A7/A7r are full frame with Carl Zeiss lenses. Some point-and-shoot are APS-C or close. I would also mention Sony R1 here as an example of innovation.

No image stabilization. All other have it in some way - on sensor or in lenses.

Maximum shutter speed is 1/4000. Many have it up to 1/8000

No weather sealing. Fujifilm X-T1, Sony A7/A7r, Olympus E-M1 have it.

LCD does not tilt - all other companies have a camera with a tillable one.

No built-in EVF. Extra 600$ for it. All other companies have a model with EVF built-in.

 Ron A 19's gear list:Ron A 19's gear list
Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 40mm f/2.8 STM
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cmo56
Forum MemberPosts: 99
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Alxy,

Your post make me remember a conversation I had in 1979 with a fellow photographer. He saw me using a Leica M4 and asked why I liked it. At that time SLR's were very popular. And asked about dozens of features and I had to answer that M4 did not have them, not even a light meter!No zooms, no motor drive, little flexibility on lenses and I was using very old lenses. I he was not even aware of the price.

He was puzzled by the lack of everything and asked what made me prefer this camera.

I could only answer: Better quality.

It seems that things have not changed in last 35 years. I still use my lenses from the 50's and 60's.

I never met somebody who bought a Leica for its list of better features compared to other cameras (regardless of the model). I did not expect that it would be different for the Leica T.

You asked for who. I pre ordered this camera and a lens today and I rarely spend any money in photographic equipment. Last time I bought a camera was 4 years ago.

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Clovis

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sigala1
Senior MemberPosts: 3,205
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Re: Leica T is out, but for who?
In reply to Samaistuin, 3 months ago

Samaistuin wrote:

Alxy wrote:

The exact list of mediocrity points of Leica T:

Uh? The only two major issues I have with the T aren't in your list.
And these are:

  1. No dedicated aperture ring on the lenses.
  2. No dedicated exposure lock button on the body.

Why does a lens need an aperture ring? This isn't the 1960s. The aperture is set electronically by the camera.

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Ashley G
Regular MemberPosts: 161
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Here we go yet again
In reply to Alxy, 3 months ago

Alex's, you miss the point completely.

If you don't like it don't buy it - and from your gear list I gather you never buy anything from Leica so why bother get so up tight about their products?

This camera is for me and I will buy it and both lenses as soon as I can as a quick and simple alternative when I don't want to use the M7. Indeed I will be in Sinagpore in a month or so and there are two Leica stores there - hopefully T's will be in stock.

Oh, and I am not hideously wealthy looking for an item of tasteless bling. I just appreciate quality and simplicity so this will suit me to a T, if you will pardon the pun.

i could not care less how many features it does or does not have, though the absence e of a viewfinder will mean I will have to buy that too.  I can't wait!

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Ashley

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