Do you think Canon will take on the A7?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
jimzenglish
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Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
8 months ago

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?
It just seems like a natural progression for Canon, Sony is coming out with some great new concepts like the A7 but it's lenses are either not up to the job or extremely expensive. And alot of photographers like myself want to stay in the Canon ecosystem because of existing glass and brand preference etc.

I have a EOS M which is ok but I still would prefer a full frame version of it, just think you slap a 1.4 or 1.8 50mm on and you've got a awesome compact full frame camera to use for street shooting etc. I think Canon would do really well with it and alot of existing Canon users with 7Ds, 5Ds etc would get the body as an addition for when size was an issue for travelling etc.
Just welcome any feedback on that.

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Rick Knepper
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The 6D/40mm STM fills the bill for this nicely.
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

jimzenglish wrote:

I have a EOS M which is ok but I still would prefer a full frame version of it, just think you slap a 1.4 or 1.8 50mm on and you've got a awesome compact full frame camera to use for street shooting etc.

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Potemkin_Photo
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Re: The 6D/40mm STM fills the bill for this nicely.
In reply to Rick Knepper, 8 months ago

We probably won't see anything WOW for about 5 years, then something evolutionary will happen.

Canon and Nikon have been pretty disappointing for the last couple years.

The best they seem to be able to manage this month is a new color for the SL100.

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gipper51
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Re: Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

I don't think we'll see a mirrorless FF body until Canon can solve how to make phase detection lenses (EOS) autofocus well with contrast detection AF systems.  Apparently that is a problem not easily solved.  Without that solution I doubt they will release such a camera.  I can't see Canon creating a new line of FF lenses specifically for a mirrorless system to compete with the EOS system, the market demand is not there yet.

Personally, I'm not clamoring for such a camera.

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Great Bustard
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This is how it's gotta go down...
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?
It just seems like a natural progression for Canon, Sony is coming out with some great new concepts like the A7 but it's lenses are either not up to the job or extremely expensive. And alot of photographers like myself want to stay in the Canon ecosystem because of existing glass and brand preference etc.

I have a EOS M which is ok but I still would prefer a full frame version of it, just think you slap a 1.4 or 1.8 50mm on and you've got a awesome compact full frame camera to use for street shooting etc. I think Canon would do really well with it and alot of existing Canon users with 7Ds, 5Ds etc would get the body as an addition for when size was an issue for travelling etc.
Just welcome any feedback on that.

...if Canon is to be successful in the mirrorless FF market.

  1. Either buy a sensor from Sony or make one at least as good.
  2. AF and CAF must be outstanding.
  3. EVF must be outstanding.
  4. Must debut with the following high quality lenses:  24 / 2 IS, 35 / 2 IS, 50 / 1.8 IS, and 85 / 1.8 IS.

The first four, I hope, are self-explanatory.  Let me go into more detail on the last point.  Why do people want mirrorless over a DSLR?  Size.  Why FF over smaller formats?  In no particular order:  noise, resolution, and shallow DOF.  Thus the need to debut the system with a "full" suite of fast, small, high quality primes.

If the lenses come out piecemeal, then people will be hesitant to jump into the system.  It might be a good idea to also have a standard zoom with the debut, say a 24-85 / 2.8-4 IS to complement the primes.

Anyway, were I the CEO of Canon, that's what I'd be making right now.  It's what I'd have already made.  Time will tell if I should be fired or not. 

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The Davinator
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Re: This is how it's gotta go down...
In reply to Great Bustard, 8 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?
It just seems like a natural progression for Canon, Sony is coming out with some great new concepts like the A7 but it's lenses are either not up to the job or extremely expensive. And alot of photographers like myself want to stay in the Canon ecosystem because of existing glass and brand preference etc.

I have a EOS M which is ok but I still would prefer a full frame version of it, just think you slap a 1.4 or 1.8 50mm on and you've got a awesome compact full frame camera to use for street shooting etc. I think Canon would do really well with it and alot of existing Canon users with 7Ds, 5Ds etc would get the body as an addition for when size was an issue for travelling etc.
Just welcome any feedback on that.

...if Canon is to be successful in the mirrorless FF market.

  1. Either buy a sensor from Sony or make one at least as good.
  2. AF and CAF must be outstanding.
  3. EVF must be outstanding.
  4. Must debut with the following high quality lenses: 24 / 2 IS, 35 / 2 IS, 50 / 1.8 IS, and 85 / 1.8 IS.

The first four, I hope, are self-explanatory. Let me go into more detail on the last point. Why do people want mirrorless over a DSLR? Size. Why FF over smaller formats? In no particular order: noise, resolution, and shallow DOF. Thus the need to debut the system with a "full" suite of fast, small, high quality primes.

If the lenses come out piecemeal, then people will be hesitant to jump into the system. It might be a good idea to also have a standard zoom with the debut, say a 24-85 / 2.8-4 IS to complement the primes.

Anyway, were I the CEO of Canon, that's what I'd be making right now. It's what I'd have already made. Time will tell if I should be fired or not.

It would be nice to see a game changing EVF from them.  As to the sensor....they really need to get their act together on that one.

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carlk
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Re: Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?
It just seems like a natural progression for Canon, Sony is coming out with some great new concepts like the A7 but it's lenses are either not up to the job or extremely expensive. And alot of photographers like myself want to stay in the Canon ecosystem because of existing glass and brand preference etc.

I have a EOS M which is ok but I still would prefer a full frame version of it, just think you slap a 1.4 or 1.8 50mm on and you've got a awesome compact full frame camera to use for street shooting etc. I think Canon would do really well with it and alot of existing Canon users with 7Ds, 5Ds etc would get the body as an addition for when size was an issue for travelling etc.
Just welcome any feedback on that.

Let's just say A7's threat to Canon is not because it's mirrorless.

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carlk
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Re: This is how it's gotta go down...
In reply to Great Bustard, 8 months ago

Great Bustard wrote:

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?
It just seems like a natural progression for Canon, Sony is coming out with some great new concepts like the A7 but it's lenses are either not up to the job or extremely expensive. And alot of photographers like myself want to stay in the Canon ecosystem because of existing glass and brand preference etc.

I have a EOS M which is ok but I still would prefer a full frame version of it, just think you slap a 1.4 or 1.8 50mm on and you've got a awesome compact full frame camera to use for street shooting etc. I think Canon would do really well with it and alot of existing Canon users with 7Ds, 5Ds etc would get the body as an addition for when size was an issue for travelling etc.
Just welcome any feedback on that.

...if Canon is to be successful in the mirrorless FF market.

  1. Either buy a sensor from Sony or make one at least as good.
  2. AF and CAF must be outstanding.
  3. EVF must be outstanding.
  4. Must debut with the following high quality lenses: 24 / 2 IS, 35 / 2 IS, 50 / 1.8 IS, and 85 / 1.8 IS.

The first four, I hope, are self-explanatory. Let me go into more detail on the last point. Why do people want mirrorless over a DSLR? Size. Why FF over smaller formats? In no particular order: noise, resolution, and shallow DOF. Thus the need to debut the system with a "full" suite of fast, small, high quality primes.

If the lenses come out piecemeal, then people will be hesitant to jump into the system. It might be a good idea to also have a standard zoom with the debut, say a 24-85 / 2.8-4 IS to complement the primes.

Anyway, were I the CEO of Canon, that's what I'd be making right now. It's what I'd have already made. Time will tell if I should be fired or not.

I totally agree.  That's why I went to Fuji for mirrorless.  It has everything you asked for down to those really great and reasonably priced primes.  Well it's aps-c but that's just fine with me.  I can think of no reasone that a ff is needed using your criteria.  At least not strong enough reason to trade for the nice size.

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jimzenglish
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Re: This is how it's gotta go down...
In reply to Great Bustard, 8 months ago

...if Canon is to be successful in the mirrorless FF market.

  1. Either buy a sensor from Sony or make one at least as good.
  2. AF and CAF must be outstanding.
  3. EVF must be outstanding.
  4. Must debut with the following high quality lenses: 24 / 2 IS, 35 / 2 IS, 50 / 1.8 IS, and 85 / 1.8 IS.

Ok I'm obviously thick but I was more thinking of a mirrorless system utilising their existing lenses rather than creating a new range. I know this would make the system less compact than if they brought out a new range of suitable lenses but it would still give the user the option of going compact for the day with a 50mm 1.8 or similar. 
I'm just thinking then a canon enthusiast could have a setup like a 5D for general work and the mirrorless for travelling but still using same lenses and keeping with full frame setup.

I hear what you're saying in regards to the AF I have the EOS M and it's disappointing in that regard so would need to be improved.

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DFPanno
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They d*mn well better......
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Hi-rez and mirror-less can come later.

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RedFox88
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Do you think sony will take on the 5D3?
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?

Do you think sony will take on the 5D3?  They seem to be ready to let their a-mount die out.  So do you think sony will have an "answer" for the 5D3 and 1D X for professional sports photographers?  My guess is no.  sony doesn't sit still long enough to do anything really good.  Too  many products.  They say they are into making new products.  But pro photographers don't want a new type of camera every 2 years, they need quality products and quality high end lenses and that isn't sony's motto.

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RedFox88
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Re: They d*mn well better......
In reply to DFPanno, 8 months ago

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target.  Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines.  Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image.  It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

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qianp2k
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Re: Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

I don't think Canon will have a ML FF anytime soon. It might have a beef-up EOS-M3 later this year on rumor. But if Canon acquired Panasonic camera section on a remote rumor then it means Canon will be serious in ML market.

But in the other side, ML doesn't replace DSLR in many fields and has its limitation. Sony still doesn't have many FE lenses. Except two successful FE prime lenses, its zoom lenses so far either disappointed in its FE 24-70/4.0 OSS or not very ideal as in FE 70-200/4.0 OSS (which still not as good as Nikon 70-200/4.0 VR although pretty close but priced and weighted almost the same, and noticeably heavier than Canon 70-200L4.0 IS but not much better). Until Sony can develop more good quality FE lenses its FE-mount ML success is limited.

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fishywisht
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Re: Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

Canon lens stabilisation means for me their interchangeable compacts wouldn't be as attractive. Every lens would be a little bigger for the IS.

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NewForce
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Re: Do you think Canon will take on the A7?
In reply to jimzenglish, 8 months ago

Because Sony DSLT can't compete with Canikon, thus they change the their marketing strategic by offering mirrorless in the hope they could steal some market. But that too failed tremendously.

After tried and disappointed with Sony mirrorless, people realized Canikon DSLR still way to go for great picture taking. So in facts, people who's tried mirrorless, they are more swear by Canikon DSLR cameras ability.

Due to that Sony released another 3 mirrorless body, only this time with FF sensor. A7 didn't cut it, only A7R with special developed FF sensor for very short flange focal distance which wasn't ideal for good images, together with expensive Zeiss lens has managed to shine a bit. But with the very limited FE lenses range availability, probably Sony fate just repeating where they've flopped with their mirrorless cameras.

So it is something Canon and Nikon wouldn't even bother to take on. Full stop.

Or maybe Sony should take on Canon and Nikon, by offering DSLR camera with normal FFD?

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Fog Maker
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Re: Do you think sony will take on the 5D3?
In reply to RedFox88, 8 months ago

RedFox88 wrote:

But pro photographers don't want a new type of camera every 2 years, they need quality products and quality high end lenses

Exactly.

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hjulenissen
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Re: They d*mn well better......
In reply to RedFox88, 8 months ago

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target.  Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines.  Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image.  It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

Or annonse who ever show "hdr" or ever use the tonemapping facilities in programs like lightroom. Seems to be a pretty large crowd.

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DFPanno
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That's just silly.......
In reply to RedFox88, 8 months ago

RedFox88 wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

I haven't purchased from Canon since I got my 5D3 at its introduction.

I have spent a small fortune on Sony and will spend another small fortune next week on an A7R and a full compliment of lenses.

Canon has a lot of work to do before I buy from them again.

Sorry but Canon's aim is not to keep up with sony because sony is a moving target. Creating too many products and not concentrating on solid product lines. Like their boondoggle "Q" cameras, they are ready to let their a-mount die and go completely mirrorless regardless if their customers want an OVF.

I would be happy if they would start with a sensor that can go head-to-head with the one in my RX1.

Basically all image sensors are equal if you aren't into lifting shadows by 6 stops or under exposing by 6 stops and brightening the image. It's only the gadget junkies on here that call Canon image sensors poor - and that's a tiny percentage of camera users!

I can guarentee you "dollars to donuts" the you have no experience with Sonys current crop of cameras.

If you did you would never make those statements.

They are operating on another plane but if you like to think they are all equal be my guest.

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

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DFPanno
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Sony has no interest in taking on the 5D3…….
In reply to RedFox88, 8 months ago

RedFox88 wrote:

jimzenglish wrote:

Ok this is probably complete conjecture but do you think or would you welcome Canon doing a competitor to the A7 and coming out with a mirrorless full frame body to use with it's existing lenses?

Do you think sony will take on the 5D3? They seem to be ready to let their a-mount die out. So do you think sony will have an "answer" for the 5D3 and 1D X for professional sports photographers? My guess is no. sony doesn't sit still long enough to do anything really good. Too many products. They say they are into making new products. But pro photographers don't want a new type of camera every 2 years, they need quality products and quality high end lenses and that isn't sony's motto.

Sony is struggling to find a permanent place among the big three and it seems (for the moment) that they have given up on going mano-a-mano with Canikon.

In the meantime the have 5 of the most inovative cameras on the market and many FF DSLR users are giving them up to buy Sony FF mirrorless.

The sensor and its associated elctronics is the heart of the camera body and that world is currently owned by Sony.

My guess is that Sony/Zeiss will produce the required lenses bsfore Canon has the required sensor but that is nothing more than speculation on my part.

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carlk
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Re: That's just silly.......
In reply to DFPanno, 8 months ago

DFPanno wrote

Incidently - IBM and GM were other "too big to fail" companies that operated under the delusion that the industry revolved around them.

Yeah and Blockbusters, Blackberry, Best Buy were all once formidable companies that totally dominate their markets until disruptive technologies and products came out.  Don't forget Kodak who was happily enjoying its own carcass until there is not thing left to enjoy.

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