Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)

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JoEick
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Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
5 months ago

I wrote a guide to using the Canon 6D, with an emphasis on landscape photography. I have some dynamic range tests which may be of some interest.

I was going to post it on DPR but it is too much to easily transfer and format.

Here is a link if you wish to check in out:

Canon 6D Guide Webpage

Let me know if you have any questions or feedback.

Thanks!

Canon EOS 6D
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salamander1
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

very nice!

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roustabout66
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

Thank you very much!

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Jobber56
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

Very useful. Thank you!

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RandyB2
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to Jobber56, 5 months ago

Jobber56 wrote:

Very useful. Thank you!

Yes, thanks to OP for all the work putting it together.

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Steve Throndson
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

JoEick,

Thank you for writing the guide, and for the link.  As a new 6D user, I found it quite useful.  There's a lot that's not covered in the camera's instruction book.

Steve

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Wayne Larmon
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Thank you. But one question
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

I've been using Canon DSLRs since the 300D and I learned things I didn't know from your guide. And I understood your point: If you shoot landscapes and if you use a 6D, then here is some information that may be useful to you.

I was confused about one thing in your guide, though. In the section about using the RGB histogram, you say

One drawback of the RGB Histogram is that the graphs are calculated based on the JPG image and not the actual RAW file itself. Much of the data is lost after a JPG conversion, so it is important to make sure that the loss is as minimal as possible. This can be accomplished by setting the Shot Settings to custom values. By fully reducing the contrast, more of the RGB Histogram values will be saved from the RAW file when it is converted to the JPG compressed format. To set the Shot Settings, go to Menu>Picture Style. In Picture Style, select Neutral and then hit the INFO button. In the Detail set. menu, set Contrast to -4. While also here it wouldn't hurt to also set Sharpness to 5 and Saturation to +2.

I shoot RAW 100% and I know that the histogram is calculated from how the camera is set to produce JPGs (even if you aren't shooting JPGs) and may or may not match the data that is in the RAW file My understanding was that one of the best ways to make the histogram better match the RAW data is to reduce the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings. If you increase sharpening and saturation (as you recommend), you are making the histogram be more inaccurate (about the RAW data.)

i.e., the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings do not affect the data that is saved in the raw file at all, but they do affect the accuracy of the histogram (and the appearance of the image that is displayed on the LCD. But the image on the LCD doesn't reflect what is in the RAW data.)

This was described in an article on Luminous Landscape. But it isn't clear if you are shooting RAW or if you are shooting JPG. Or if you were writing about the same thing that that the LL article is talking about.

Other than this quibble, great job.

Wayne

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JoEick
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Re: Thank you. But one question
In reply to Wayne Larmon, 5 months ago

Wayne Larmon wrote:

I've been using Canon DSLRs since the 300D and I learned things I didn't know from your guide. And I understood your point: If you shoot landscapes and if you use a 6D, then here is some information that may be useful to you.

I was confused about one thing in your guide, though. In the section about using the RGB histogram, you say

One drawback of the RGB Histogram is that the graphs are calculated based on the JPG image and not the actual RAW file itself. Much of the data is lost after a JPG conversion, so it is important to make sure that the loss is as minimal as possible. This can be accomplished by setting the Shot Settings to custom values. By fully reducing the contrast, more of the RGB Histogram values will be saved from the RAW file when it is converted to the JPG compressed format. To set the Shot Settings, go to Menu>Picture Style. In Picture Style, select Neutral and then hit the INFO button. In the Detail set. menu, set Contrast to -4. While also here it wouldn't hurt to also set Sharpness to 5 and Saturation to +2.

I shoot RAW 100% and I know that the histogram is calculated from how the camera is set to produce JPGs (even if you aren't shooting JPGs) and may or may not match the data that is in the RAW file My understanding was that one of the best ways to make the histogram better match the RAW data is to reduce the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings. If you increase sharpening and saturation (as you recommend), you are making the histogram be more inaccurate (about the RAW data.)

i.e., the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings do not affect the data that is saved in the raw file at all, but they do affect the accuracy of the histogram (and the appearance of the image that is displayed on the LCD. But the image on the LCD doesn't reflect what is in the RAW data.)

This was described in an article on Luminous Landscape. But it isn't clear if you are shooting RAW or if you are shooting JPG. Or if you were writing about the same thing that that the LL article is talking about.

Other than this quibble, great job.

Wayne

Yes, correct. Sharpening and saturation do alter the accuracy of the histogram to a degree. I should make it clear in my guide that turning up sharpness and saturation are worthwhile tradeoffs for RGB accuracy. Adding sharpness helps with live view focusing and adding saturation helps predict where the colors will be pushed in the landscape post processing. Either way both may give a little buffer in the highlights to prevent clipping.

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aramgrg
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

Also, it will be helpful to include information about highlight tone priority. compare noise between overexposing slightly with ISO200 HTP on vs exposing at ISO100+pushing shadows.

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ASR45
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to salamander1, 5 months ago

Very nice.

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Regueira Photo and Film
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

JoEick wrote:

I wrote a guide to using the Canon 6D, with an emphasis on landscape photography. I have some dynamic range tests which may be of some interest.

I was going to post it on DPR but it is too much to easily transfer and format.

Here is a link if you wish to check in out:

Canon 6D Guide Webpage

Let me know if you have any questions or feedback.

Thanks!

Thank you for take the time to write this usefull guide fot the 6D.

In spite I usually do not shoot landscapes if found it very illustrative.

Great job!

Cheers,

D

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l_d_allan
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Re: Any evaluation of MagicLantern?
In reply to Wayne Larmon, 5 months ago

Wayne Larmon wrote:
One drawback of the RGB Histogram is that the graphs are calculated based on the JPG image and not the actual RAW file itself.

Thanks for the 6d guide. After a brief scan, it looks promising for improving my photography.

I'm an advocate of MagicLantern, and wonder if you have experience with it. I didn't see any mention of it in the Guide, but perhaps I didn't look closely enough.

  • Auto-ETTR that is very flexible and can be "tuned" for scene contrast
  • Histogram and blinkies based on RAW. Big improvement over UniWB and Picture Styles.
  • Auto Dot-Tune AF-MicroAdjust
  • Dual-ISO provides about 2.5 f-stops DR with some loss in resolution. Super for panos. It's greatly reduced my use of HDR.
  • Somewhat more flexible HDR bracketing.
  • Improved Bulb for night photography. Flexible self-timer and much longer exposures.
  • Reasonably flexible intervalometer, including day to dusk to night to dawn compensations.
  • Star trails and night time-lapse are a facilitated with Bulb and intervalometer.
  • Focus aids like zebras
  • much for video and audio that I'm ignorant about
  • much more that I haven't delved into yet
  • TMI? The Dev-Team are working on tweaking the CMOS/ADTG/Digic circuitry to fine-tune parameters, with potential for "free" increase of about 0.5 DR. My impression is Canon uses least-common-denominator params, and fine-tuning for an individual camera can be like "blue-printing" a race engine.
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NewForce
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Re: Here is a Canon 6D Guide for Landscapes. :)
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

JoEick wrote:

I wrote a guide to using the Canon 6D, with an emphasis on landscape photography. I have some dynamic range tests which may be of some interest.

I was going to post it on DPR but it is too much to easily transfer and format.

Here is a link if you wish to check in out:

Canon 6D Guide Webpage

Let me know if you have any questions or feedback.

Thanks!

BIG THANKS to you for spending great time writing this Landscape Guide for 6D.

You great generosity and writing talent surely benefits lot of Landscape lovers that not just Canon 6D and other photographers, but it can be also useful for other Pentax, Fujifilm, Olympus, Panasonic, Samsung, Nikon and Sony camera system users.

2 Thumbs-Up for you and I've bookmarked your page as one of my favorites webpage.

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Kenny

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technic
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Re: Thank you. But one question
In reply to Wayne Larmon, 5 months ago

Wayne Larmon wrote:

I shoot RAW 100% and I know that the histogram is calculated from how the camera is set to produce JPGs (even if you aren't shooting JPGs) and may or may not match the data that is in the RAW file My understanding was that one of the best ways to make the histogram better match the RAW data is to reduce the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings. If you increase sharpening and saturation (as you recommend), you are making the histogram be more inaccurate (about the RAW data.)

I'm struggling a bit with the histograms too. First of all I wondered about this remark:

"One thing to note about the 4 second exposure is that a tiny number of red pixels have overexposed on the highlights of the red object in the image. Without the RGB Histogram, it would be difficult to spot potential problems just looking at the images themselves. "

How can the OP see in the histogram that a small number of red pixels have overexposed, from the tiny-tiny red spike on the right? Is that really visible on the 6D LCD display? I'm using a 450D which has RGB histogram, but much coarser display; I sure wouldn't be able to see such overexposure especially not in bright daylight conditions.

I'm using the RGB histogram on a 450D camera that has been converted to infrared; exposure metering doesn't work well for IR so I rely on the histogram for exposure. In order to judge the scene on the LCD display in LV mode (you can't see IR in the optical viewfinder ...) I use custom whitebalance so I see a mostly grayscale image. The WB is 'off the scale' for Photoshop (without WB the image would look bright red / purple) but it works in-camera and in DPP.

Probably the WB correction is causing a huge distortion to the histograms. I'm trying to judge if one of the channels is clipped by looking at the right side of the RGB histogram but this seems to be unreliable. Maybe not using a custom WB would be better, but in that case I can't judge the scene on the display (all shades of bright red). Any suggestions for more accurate exposureusing the histogram?

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Wayne Larmon
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Running Magic Latern on 6D?
In reply to l_d_allan, 5 months ago

l_d_allan wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:
One drawback of the RGB Histogram is that the graphs are calculated based on the JPG image and not the actual RAW file itself.

Thanks for the 6d guide. After a brief scan, it looks promising for improving my photography.

I'm an advocate of MagicLantern, and wonder if you have experience with it. I didn't see any mention of it in the Guide, but perhaps I didn't look closely enough.

  • Auto-ETTR that is very flexible and can be "tuned" for scene contrast
  • Histogram and blinkies based on RAW. Big improvement over UniWB and Picture Styles.

(snip)

I'm going to stop quoting with this snip. ML on a 6D would solve a lot of problems, including the histogram-based-on-JPEG problem, except for one larger problem. The 6D isn't supported in the official ML stable release.  Look at

http://www.magiclantern.fm/downloads.html

The 6D is not of the list.

But if you know how to safely install and run ML on a 6D, then could you write up a web page describing the process?   Or at least write a detailed post?

I like the concept of ML, but I am leery about installing it on my 6D because it isn't officially supported.

Wayne

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Wayne Larmon
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Re: Thank you. But one question
In reply to JoEick, 5 months ago

JoEick wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:

i.e., the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings do not affect the data that is saved in the raw file at all, but they do affect the accuracy of the histogram (and the appearance of the image that is displayed on the LCD. But the image on the LCD doesn't reflect what is in the RAW data.)

This was described in an article on Luminous Landscape. But it isn't clear if you are shooting RAW or if you are shooting JPG. Or if you were writing about the same thing that that the LL article is talking about.

Other than this quibble, great job.

Wayne

Yes, correct. Sharpening and saturation do alter the accuracy of the histogram to a degree. I should make it clear in my guide that turning up sharpness and saturation are worthwhile tradeoffs for RGB accuracy. Adding sharpness helps with live view focusing and adding saturation helps predict where the colors will be pushed in the landscape post processing. Either way both may give a little buffer in the highlights to prevent clipping.

Good points.  I don't think that the LL article was written with focusing with live view in mind.   This covers sharpening, but I'm not sure about your rationale about increasing saturation.  Increasing saturation makes the histogram be less accurate.  I've never worried about pushing colors in PP until I'm actually doing PP.  The Canon JPEG engine (that you see on the camera LCD when changing saturation in picture styles) may not reflect how the Adobe raw conversion engine (Lightroom, ACR) handles colors.  Especially if you use different DNG profiles.

But your method may be valid with the caveat they it might be worth having different picture styles: one tuned for maximum histogram accuracy and a 2nd tuned to help previsualization, with the recommendation to switch between them, depending.

And, sigh, Magic Lantern would (presumably) solve this problem neatly, if only it was supported on the 6D.  (See adjacent posts.)

Wayne

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l_d_allan
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Re: Running Magic Latern on 6D?
In reply to Wayne Larmon, 5 months ago

Wayne Larmon wrote:
The 6D isn't supported in the official ML stable release.

Well, yes and no.

  • Agree, the 6d was not part of the "Stable Release" back in July, 2012
  • The ML Developers have gotten away from the concept of "Stable Releases", and gone to "Rolling Releases" as "Nightly Builds".
  • IMO, there have been an incredible number of capabilities released since the "Stable Release" of almost 2 years ago.
  • Personally, I would prefer that the ML team have "Stable Releases", perhaps every six months or so, but that isn't how they decided to proceed.
  • The 6d version started off as a project by a very talented developer. For a while, it was semi-independent of the ML "official main trunk".
  • Starting in late 2013, the ML team has been integrating the 6d version back into the "official main trunk".
  • I've found ML to be stable on my 5d2, T3i/600d, and 6d. There is a sub-forum where people with stability problems submit their requests for assistance.
  • The install procedure for the 6d used to be rather "lumpy", as it involved "back-tracking" from firmware 1.1.3 to firmware 1.1.2, installing the variant of ML, then upgrading back to 1.1.3. I don't know if that is still the case.
  • Overall, I consider myself a rather "risk adverse" person regarding my DLSR's. However, I find there is so much "valued added" by ML to justify what I consider to be a small risk.
  • Here's an "Install Guide" for the 6d:
    http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=5530.0
  • I wish I could tell you that ML was as stable as firmware from Canon, but that isn't the case. It really is "bleeding edge" stuff, and not for the faint-hearted.
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Dr Windmill
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Re: Running Magic Latern on 6D?
In reply to l_d_allan, 5 months ago

Thanks for the guide. Very useful for me as I explore the options of this remarkable camera, my first FF ... and my first Canon!
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Lawrence Culbertson
Erie, Colorado

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JoEick
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Re: Thank you. But one question
In reply to Wayne Larmon, 5 months ago

Wayne Larmon wrote:

JoEick wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:

i.e., the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings do not affect the data that is saved in the raw file at all, but they do affect the accuracy of the histogram (and the appearance of the image that is displayed on the LCD. But the image on the LCD doesn't reflect what is in the RAW data.)

This was described in an article on Luminous Landscape. But it isn't clear if you are shooting RAW or if you are shooting JPG. Or if you were writing about the same thing that that the LL article is talking about.

Other than this quibble, great job.

Wayne

Yes, correct. Sharpening and saturation do alter the accuracy of the histogram to a degree. I should make it clear in my guide that turning up sharpness and saturation are worthwhile tradeoffs for RGB accuracy. Adding sharpness helps with live view focusing and adding saturation helps predict where the colors will be pushed in the landscape post processing. Either way both may give a little buffer in the highlights to prevent clipping.

Good points. I don't think that the LL article was written with focusing with live view in mind. This covers sharpening, but I'm not sure about your rationale about increasing saturation. Increasing saturation makes the histogram be less accurate. I've never worried about pushing colors in PP until I'm actually doing PP. The Canon JPEG engine (that you see on the camera LCD when changing saturation in picture styles) may not reflect how the Adobe raw conversion engine (Lightroom, ACR) handles colors. Especially if you use different DNG profiles.

But your method may be valid with the caveat they it might be worth having different picture styles: one tuned for maximum histogram accuracy and a 2nd tuned to help previsualization, with the recommendation to switch between them, depending.

And, sigh, Magic Lantern would (presumably) solve this problem neatly, if only it was supported on the 6D. (See adjacent posts.)

Wayne

I updated the guide to be more specific about sharpening and saturation.
Thanks for helping with pointing out the issue.

TO be honest though. I don't use the RGB Histogram much anyway. After 30,000+ shots with the 6D I just know when the image is properly exposed. The highlight alert also tends to work great so I know where exactly the over-exposure is happening.

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JoEick
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Re: Thank you. But one question
In reply to technic, 5 months ago

technic wrote:

Wayne Larmon wrote:

I shoot RAW 100% and I know that the histogram is calculated from how the camera is set to produce JPGs (even if you aren't shooting JPGs) and may or may not match the data that is in the RAW file My understanding was that one of the best ways to make the histogram better match the RAW data is to reduce the contrast, sharpening and saturation settings. If you increase sharpening and saturation (as you recommend), you are making the histogram be more inaccurate (about the RAW data.)

I'm struggling a bit with the histograms too. First of all I wondered about this remark:

"One thing to note about the 4 second exposure is that a tiny number of red pixels have overexposed on the highlights of the red object in the image. Without the RGB Histogram, it would be difficult to spot potential problems just looking at the images themselves. "

How can the OP see in the histogram that a small number of red pixels have overexposed, from the tiny-tiny red spike on the right? Is that really visible on the 6D LCD display? I'm using a 450D which has RGB histogram, but much coarser display; I sure wouldn't be able to see such overexposure especially not in bright daylight conditions.

I'm using the RGB histogram on a 450D camera that has been converted to infrared; exposure metering doesn't work well for IR so I rely on the histogram for exposure. In order to judge the scene on the LCD display in LV mode (you can't see IR in the optical viewfinder ...) I use custom whitebalance so I see a mostly grayscale image. The WB is 'off the scale' for Photoshop (without WB the image would look bright red / purple) but it works in-camera and in DPP.

Probably the WB correction is causing a huge distortion to the histograms. I'm trying to judge if one of the channels is clipped by looking at the right side of the RGB histogram but this seems to be unreliable. Maybe not using a custom WB would be better, but in that case I can't judge the scene on the display (all shades of bright red). Any suggestions for more accurate exposureusing the histogram?

I don't do any IR photos, so I am not sure what works best in that regard.

When I have a scene I know will be a keeper, I shoot every possible variation in composition and exposure I can think of, just to make sure I get at least 1 photo right on the money. This is a huge advantage we have with digital cameras.

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