A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Birddogman
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A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
8 months ago

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Off the soapbox now.

Greg

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Red Boar
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

I agree on all three counts.  

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Cadder
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Red Boar, 8 months ago

Red Boar wrote:

I agree on all three counts.

+1

Cadder

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RicksAstro
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In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

agree on all!

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Ollie 2
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF.

This is so true. One of the few niggles I have with the X-Pro1.

It’s hardly a major issue, but it is annoying.

If Fuji addressed that on the X-T1 they should be commended, not vilified.

I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Off the soapbox now.

Greg

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wyldberi
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Off the soapbox now.

Greg

This all points to the fact that much of what passes for evaluation or comparison is actually just personal opinion and very subjective. Sometimes what gets presented in the reviews is quite unbiased; but the reviews are not being written by unbiased reviewers. They do try, but they certainly aren't perfect.

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J Frank Parnell
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

I also agree with all 3 of your points. It doesn't bother me in the least that the reviewer thought otherwise. How could I possibly expect any reviewer to have the exact same camera requirements as I do? It seems that too many people feel a product review should be nothing more than an objective accounting that will apply equally to every person that uses the product. Of course, those types of "reviews" are also known as "spec sheets."

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seukel
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Off the soapbox now.

Greg

I also agree with all of your 3 points.

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Alxy
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

May be too unbiased - they describe the 3 way buttons on the back as "a little 'spongey'". These are really bad buttons. The worst I've ever seen. Almost unusable. I can use them only with my fingernails.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

There is no cure. My camera has a serial 41XXX and it has no light leak. The buttons will never be fixed on it. The only fix is to find a new camera in a retail store that I can test and sell the current one at quiet some loss.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

They could've made it with a button that can be set in locked and unlocked positions. Like Olympus E-M1. Not to mention that some people do not like all these dials at all - they are slow to operate.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Again, I agree with DPReview. The dial is hard to use. On X-E2 I could use it with my thumb, not on X-T1. Just tried it again, to be sure - no I cannot turn this dial with my thumb, only with 2 finger.

Off the soapbox now.

Greg

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Morkolv
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Agree! And even more of the listed "cons"

  • Rear buttons are small, and almost flush to camera body
  • Four-way controller is rather 'spongey' in feel
  • Awkwardly positioned, locking ISO dial is inconvenient (especially with large lenses)
  • Raw files not recorded when ISO dial set to 'L', 'H1' and 'H2' positions
  • Limited manual control during movie recording
  • Poor image quality in movie mode
  • Need to use third party software (ACR 8.4) to match camera's colour rendition in Raw
  • Matching weatherproof lenses not available at launch (due to appear mid-2014)

The last one is hardly a con, is it? And I did not buy a videocamera, thus the video cons are not relevant to me. LR has been my standard for the last years, thus no con for me either. However i would like raw files from all ISO settings, this could be fixed in firmware should Fuji decide to do so.

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MayaTlab0
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Given that there are much better solutions to the problem of accidental movements than a simple lock such as the one Fuji implemented, I'd still consider this a con. A lock of this kind is the least imaginative solution possible to a problem that shouldn't have existed in the first place had the dial been properly designed. Some dial designs on certain cameras never receive any complaint whatsoever, perhaps that's because they're doing something right with those. A few examples : the EP-5's mode dial or the Leica M's shutter speed dial. It usually is a combination of appropriate detent mechanism, appropriate diameter / height, partial sinking of the dial within the body, and avoiding protrusions from the main body where it's likely to pose a problem in a bag for example. Any way, even if a lock was deemed necessary, Pentax's solution on the K3 is a better idea.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

As far as I'm concerned, I've never accidentally turned my X-pro 1's EV comp dial and neither did I have any issues turning the X-T1's EV comp dial with one finger, but I still find the overall design compromised on both cameras. First, I don't like its placement, it puts my thumb in an awkward position when operating it, and I always feel that it compromises the handling of the camera given he grip's design - I also believe its position makes people unable to fully use their "thumb power", perhaps that's why some complain the X-T1's dial is too stiff. Also, I don't understand why Fuji seems to hesitate between sinking the EV dial like on the rangefinder-like X series cameras and simply putting it on top of the body like on the X100s or X-T1 - especially since none of these solutions address the main reason for accidental turns on this design, i.e. the fact that the dial protrudes from the body on its top right corner (basically, Fuji's EV comp dial IS the corner of the body) - something demonstrated by Thumbs Up's solution for the X100s (although this makes the EV dial almost unusable then).

Then obviously there are all the issues related to the fact that it isn't a soft dial (for example the inability to quickly revert to 0 EV comp by pressing a Fn button or after a certain moment if set so), but that's more a design paradigm decision and I understand that some people prefer labelled dials.

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Andy Westlake
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We can only review the cameras we have
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

We've used several X-T1s, and all had spongey rear buttons. If Fujifilm is now shipping cameras with improvements, that's great. Crucially, though, we have neither seen such cameras, nor been informed about them by Fujifilm (remember we tend to get early-production cameras). At which point, we simply can't publish a review based on anecdotal evidence that we can't substantiate.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style.

This is the whole point producing a review. We mention things that bother us, and we feel might influence potential buyers. We try to make these criticisms suitably nuanced, so that readers can decide for themselves if the points we've raised are relevant to them.

From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

I change ISO frequently so find Fujifilm's implementation irritating - personally I'd prefer to see an optional dial lock, as we've seen recently on Olympus, Panasonic and Pentax cameras.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con".

No, we don't.

I disagree completely... I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter.

I'm pleased you can do that, but it's certainly not at all easy on the camera I reviewed.

They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Ah, ad hominem attacks; always a valid approach. Maybe Fujifilm has adjusted the dial stiffness too?(Not impossible, as I raised this issue before launch - the dial on the first pre-prod camera I handled was extremely stiff).

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Ray Sachs
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Weak little kids and poor QC...
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Mine are pretty bad. Glad yours aren't, but this is either a bad design or a QC problem. Not a huge issue to me, but could be to others.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Not a huge issue either way for me, but after using the EM1 with its lockable and UNlockable button on the mode dial, I don't know why every such button isn't made like that - gives the choice to the user.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Much to my surprise, then, it turns out that in my mid-50's I'm now a "weak little kid with tiny hands" (that can somehow palm a basketball), but I absolutely cannot turn this dial with just my thumb, even when I exert enough pressure on it that I worry I might break the camera. Glad yours isn't like that, but mine is and I've heard from plenty of other full grown adults who can't turn theirs either. I haven't personally used one I found too loose since the original X100 - this is the first one I couldn't adjust with my thumb alone. Again, if not a bad design, then bad QC. Unlike the other two issues, this one IS a big deal to me as the exposure comp dial is a control I use a lot And this one requires taking my finger off of the shutter button to help my poor wimpy little thumb with the task.

-Ray
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slimandy
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

If the tested copy didn't have light leak they are right not to mention it. As for the buttons they don't bother me. If no-one mentioned it I wouldn't have thought of it.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

I'm with the reviewer on this one. If I notive I need a higher ISO I want to be able to change it easily with one hand whilst still looking through the viewfinder. I don't think I'd turn it by accident, and it's easy to see what setting it os on anyway.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Ok, I'm with you on this one. I don't find it stiff. It turns easily enough but is not so lose that you'll turn it by accident. I'd prefer the ISO dial to work in the same way.

Generally speaking I would still say the X-T1 is the best designed digital camera I have ever owned. Last time I had a camera this well designed it was a Nikon F3 and I was shooting film.

Off the soapbox now.

Greg

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bowportes
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Re: A few musings (disagreements) on the X-T1 Review
In reply to slimandy, 8 months ago

slimandy wrote:

Birddogman wrote:

I think the reviews here are generally very well done by knowledgeable folks who work with far more cameras in a month than I will see in a lifetime. They are detailed and complete. They impart a ton of valuable, unbiased information. I am just a long-time hobbyist. For all of those reasons, I am reluctant to take issue with anything in a full review, but here goes anyway.

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

If the tested copy didn't have light leak they are right not to mention it. As for the buttons they don't bother me. If no-one mentioned it I wouldn't have thought of it.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

I'm with the reviewer on this one. If I notive I need a higher ISO I want to be able to change it easily with one hand whilst still looking through the viewfinder. I don't think I'd turn it by accident, and it's easy to see what setting it os on anyway.

It's very easy to operate " with one hand," but not with one finger. You simply press the lock button with the forefinger while spinning with the thumb and third finger. The camera never needs to leave your eye. This only presents a problem with the 55-200 lens, which is heavy enough that it is difficult to support its weight with just the right hand.

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Birddogman
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Re: We can only review the cameras we have
In reply to Andy Westlake, 8 months ago

Andy Westlake wrote:

Birddogman wrote:

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

We've used several X-T1s, and all had spongey rear buttons. If Fujifilm is now shipping cameras with improvements, that's great. Crucially, though, we have neither seen such cameras, nor been informed about them by Fujifilm (remember we tend to get early-production cameras). At which point, we simply can't publish a review based on anecdotal evidence that we can't substantiate.

I fully understand that you can't review something you haven't seen - fair enough - I wouldn't want it otherwise.  However, the light leak issue is well recognized, even by Fuji.  Someone who doesn't follow the forums here might well not know about that problem, or that Fuji is correcting it.  Perhaps it was worth mentioning for that reason?  The buttons are admittedly a tougher issue.  There are those here who feel there has been no change - and there are those here (including me) who have compared the earlier and later cameras side-by-side and found the newer cameras had buttons with a subtly better feel.  So, perhaps that issue is better ignored.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style.

This is the whole point producing a review. We mention things that bother us, and we feel might influence potential buyers. We try to make these criticisms suitably nuanced, so that readers can decide for themselves if the points we've raised are relevant to them.

Yes, you did exactly that - provided the info and allowed potential buyers/users to decide if this was an issue for them.  I did point that out in my comment.

From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

I change ISO frequently so find Fujifilm's implementation irritating - personally I'd prefer to see an optional dial lock, as we've seen recently on Olympus, Panasonic and Pentax cameras.

Some people like chocolate, some vanilla - and that's good.  The dial isn't a problem for me; it is for you.  I do agree that if there was some way to have both chocolate and vanilla through having the option to lock the dial, that would be a better implementation and you and I would both be happy.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con".

No, we don't.

It was discussed at some length as a perceived negative.

I disagree completely... I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter.

I'm pleased you can do that, but it's certainly not at all easy on the camera I reviewed.

They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Ah, ad hominem attacks; always a valid approach. Maybe Fujifilm has adjusted the dial stiffness too?(Not impossible, as I raised this issue before launch - the dial on the first pre-prod camera I handled was extremely stiff).

Andy - that was NOT an attack!  If it had been an attack, there would be no guessing about it (I am a lawyer).  I started out praising what you guys do and humbly pointing out that I am just a hobbyist.  That said, it is a fact that I have no trouble moving the dial with one finger - if you were here, I could demonstrate.  Perhaps the earlier cameras were stiffer, although I had no trouble with my first one - serial number 27XX; and the replacement camera, serial number 81XX feels much the same to me.  No insult was intended - just a differing point of view - isn't that what these forums are all about?

Best!

Greg

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Andy Westlake
dpreview.com

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Birddogman
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Re: Weak little kids and poor QC...
In reply to Ray Sachs, 8 months ago

Ray Sachs wrote:

Birddogman wrote:

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Mine are pretty bad. Glad yours aren't, but this is either a bad design or a QC problem. Not a huge issue to me, but could be to others.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Not a huge issue either way for me, but after using the EM1 with its lockable and UNlockable button on the mode dial, I don't know why every such button isn't made like that - gives the choice to the user.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Much to my surprise, then, it turns out that in my mid-50's I'm now a "weak little kid with tiny hands" (that can somehow palm a basketball), but I absolutely cannot turn this dial with just my thumb, even when I exert enough pressure on it that I worry I might break the camera. Glad yours isn't like that, but mine is and I've heard from plenty of other full grown adults who can't turn theirs either. I haven't personally used one I found too loose since the original X100 - this is the first one I couldn't adjust with my thumb alone. Again, if not a bad design, then bad QC. Unlike the other two issues, this one IS a big deal to me as the exposure comp dial is a control I use a lot And this one requires taking my finger off of the shutter button to help my poor wimpy little thumb with the task.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Ray:

Good grief!  I meant no insult!  Reading your comment about the exposure comp dial and Andy's above, I wonder if there are differing levels of tension on that dial in different copies of the camera?

I agree that an ISO dial that allows one to choose to lock it or not would be a better implementation.  I didn't know that existed.

All of that said, I love the TX1 and am having more fun taking pictures now than I have had in many years (since film camera days).  The review talked about that, too.

Regards,

Greg

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LaFonte
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Re: We can only review the cameras we have
In reply to Andy Westlake, 8 months ago

Don't worry Andy too much, your review was excellent, detailed and well balanced.

And I understand myself how hard it is to start filling the con column on a product that got all the major things right.

I think Fuji developers should congratulate themselves because most of the cons are either fixable issues or issues based on the habit of the photographer.

I definitely see two excellent cameras this year, T1 and k-3 and both got equally high rating here so you are in sync with the readers.

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LaFonte
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Re: Weak little kids and poor QC...
In reply to Ray Sachs, 8 months ago

I think they were tinkering with those issues as we go, since my t1 I received very recently doesn't have spongy buttons nor extremely stiff ev. (it is stiffer than on x100s, but not extremely). Also I don't have light leak neither.

As with the light leak, I think they are adjusting those things very rapidly in factory as soon as they heard about them.

Ray Sachs wrote:

Birddogman wrote:

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Mine are pretty bad. Glad yours aren't, but this is either a bad design or a QC problem. Not a huge issue to me, but could be to others.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Not a huge issue either way for me, but after using the EM1 with its lockable and UNlockable button on the mode dial, I don't know why every such button isn't made like that - gives the choice to the user.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Much to my surprise, then, it turns out that in my mid-50's I'm now a "weak little kid with tiny hands" (that can somehow palm a basketball), but I absolutely cannot turn this dial with just my thumb, even when I exert enough pressure on it that I worry I might break the camera. Glad yours isn't like that, but mine is and I've heard from plenty of other full grown adults who can't turn theirs either. I haven't personally used one I found too loose since the original X100 - this is the first one I couldn't adjust with my thumb alone. Again, if not a bad design, then bad QC. Unlike the other two issues, this one IS a big deal to me as the exposure comp dial is a control I use a lot And this one requires taking my finger off of the shutter button to help my poor wimpy little thumb with the task.

-Ray
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We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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Ray Sachs
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Re: Weak little kids and poor QC...
In reply to Birddogman, 8 months ago

Birddogman wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

Birddogman wrote:

One of the listed "cons" is the spongy nature of the four-way controller buttons. My first XT1 (SN: 27XX) had a light leak and spongy, deeply set buttons. My replacement XT1 (SN: 81XX) has no light leak and a noticeably better feel to the buttons. Neither the light leak, nor the cure of that problem which, for me at least, included better buttons, were mentioned in the review at all. I find that strange.

Mine are pretty bad. Glad yours aren't, but this is either a bad design or a QC problem. Not a huge issue to me, but could be to others.

Another "con" is the fact that the ISO dial has a release button in the middle which must be pressed before it can be turned. To be fair, they did say that this might not bother some people due to their shooting style. From my standpoint, that locking dial is a Good Thing, not a "con". I don't change ISO all that often and having that dial turn unintentionally would be a big problem, so I very much like Fuji's implementation and would not want it any other way.

Not a huge issue either way for me, but after using the EM1 with its lockable and UNlockable button on the mode dial, I don't know why every such button isn't made like that - gives the choice to the user.

Similarly, they list the stiffness of the exposure comp dial as a "con". I disagree completely. The exposure comp dial on the XP1 was too loose and was always getting moved unintentionally. That cost me quite a number of badly exposed shots, especially with the OVF. I can easily move the exposure comp dial on the XT1 with one finger, without taking the camera away from my eye and I'm no muscle bound weightlifter. They state that it takes two fingers to move that dial - well maybe if the operator is a weak little kid with tiny hands, but any adult with even reasonable hand strength should have no problem moving it with one finger.

Much to my surprise, then, it turns out that in my mid-50's I'm now a "weak little kid with tiny hands" (that can somehow palm a basketball), but I absolutely cannot turn this dial with just my thumb, even when I exert enough pressure on it that I worry I might break the camera. Glad yours isn't like that, but mine is and I've heard from plenty of other full grown adults who can't turn theirs either. I haven't personally used one I found too loose since the original X100 - this is the first one I couldn't adjust with my thumb alone. Again, if not a bad design, then bad QC. Unlike the other two issues, this one IS a big deal to me as the exposure comp dial is a control I use a lot And this one requires taking my finger off of the shutter button to help my poor wimpy little thumb with the task.

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Ray:

Good grief! I meant no insult! Reading your comment about the exposure comp dial and Andy's above, I wonder if there are differing levels of tension on that dial in different copies of the camera?

Yeah, I think there were clearly some quality control issues in the early batches, as is common enough in any number of new products. I didn't really take it as an insult - just meant my sarcasm as a reminder that we should probably believe what other people tell us about THEIR experience, even if it doesn't match ours. In some cases, it's just different expectations, and likes and wants. But in other cases, it's probably a very real difference in the experience and the product being used.

I agree that an ISO dial that allows one to choose to lock it or not would be a better implementation. I didn't know that existed.

I don't know if it does on an ISO dial specifically, there being so few of them on modern cameras. But it definitely exists on similar dials (mode dials usually) on other cameras and it's an excellent feature! It certainly COULD be done on this ISO dial as easily as any other dial. Probably add a few pennies to the total cost of the camera.

All of that said, I love the TX1 and am having more fun taking pictures now than I have had in many years (since film camera days). The review talked about that, too.

I quite like it too. Probably not as much of a revelation for me because I recently had an X-Pro, XE1, and X100, and shot with the XM1 and X100s quite a bit. So I'm used to the Fuji shooting experience and image quality. At which point the XT1 is a nice evolutionary step forward, but not all that radical an improvement over the other models, particularly the XE2. It's a great camera for sure, but there were clearly some early QC issues.

BTW, just got mine back from the Fuji repair folks today for the light leak repair. The rear buttons don't feel any better (again, not an issue for me, but would be for many), but now I CAN turn the EC dial with my thumb. It's still a good deal stiffer than I like and that makes it hard to turn just one or two clicks - if I exert enough force to turn it, it may turn 3-4 clicks. But at least it's possible now and maybe it'll loosen just enough with use. We'll see...

I don't know if you've ever tried a Sony RX1. I've shot a lot of cameras in the past few years, and for pure quality of the controls, that has to be the nice piece of gear I've ever used. Everything from the aperture ring to the focus ring to the EC dial is just perfect - perfectly smooth action, perfectly damped, with perfect levels of resistance. The lens and sensor are amazing too. This should all be the case for the very high price, but that doesn't always translate these days. But in that case it did. And it was really a pleasure to use something with that level of quality throughout - never felt anything else quite that good... If it had been a 24 or 28mm focal length I'd have probably kept it until it died...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
We judge photographers by the photographs we see. We judge cameras by the photographs we miss - Haim Zamir
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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