645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?

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Canadianguy
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645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
5 months ago

Pentax goes where Nikon and Canon seems to have retreated from...

It appears that Canon abandoned the 1Ds line and Nikon has been silent on a D3x replacement, also silent on the DX pro lines as well  (e.g. 7D MKII / D400)

Pentax comes out with a K3 and now a 645D replacement with a price point that beats out all other MF manufacturers.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/04/15/hands-on-with-the-pentax-645z/

Now if only they can get some new lenses out for this monster and the K3 - they should be in a good position to steal some market share from the big boys.

Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1Ds Nikon D3X Nikon D4 Nikon D40 Pentax 645D Pentax 645Z
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coronawithlime
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There is if you want to carry it around your neck :)
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago

Looks like a neat product though, and the price is certainly there.  Look forward to seeing professional images from one.

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inasir1971
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago
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Radu Grozescu
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago

Canadianguy wrote:

is there still a market for a D4x?

Yes it is, especially because it will use Nikon lenses and flashes

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sandy b
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago

I'm sure its a fine camera, but its heavy and slow, (I know, not for MF). Its also ten grand with a lens, so, I think it will be a slow seller, but will make its mark,

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to sandy b, 5 months ago

sandy b wrote:

I'm sure its a fine camera, but its heavy and slow, (I know, not for MF). Its also ten grand with a lens, so, I think it will be a slow seller, but will make its mark,

Well, a D800e with a nice lens is $5000+.....not exactly cheap either.

I think a D4x would sell just fine.  Between Sony, Pentax a Nikon....it appears the real question is where it leaves Canon with their low rez bodies and limited dynamic range.

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Onetrack97
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago

Flash sync is 1/125 sec.  Not so good unless they can do higher sync speeds with the lens.

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Leo "Zoom"
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago

I doubt there ever will be a D4x - and not 645Zis responsible for that. IMO D3x was wrong move in terms of body, D800 is it's replacement. Actually D700 also was mistake - it was too good for it's position. That's why we also won't see a real replacement for it, just a whole bunch of somehow crippled ones.

As for 645Z - it won't kill anything (unless falling on someone's head from the roof), but it is a right move. It's sensitivity range is far more useful for a field work than 645D was. I can imagine myself shooting weddings just with a couple of 645Z's - well I would need to rob a bank before

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MPA1
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Canadianguy, 5 months ago

I'd imagine a few potential Leica S2P customers may reconsider their investment decision given the fact that here in NZ a Leica S2P is about $45,000 and each lens is about $10,000!

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Photo Thoughts
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Onetrack97, 5 months ago

If this camera interoperates properly with the Schneider-Kreuznach leaf shutter lenses, it'd have a very high flash sync speed for them.  I refuse to investigate much until I can afford to buy one...  Call it financial self-preservation, sigh.  The 120mm tilt and shift looks interesting, too.

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Rick Knepper
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Medium Format is not about pixels
In reply to Canadianguy, 4 months ago

It's about sensor size. So, not sure what kind of linkage you are trying create. Otherwise, you could call a 24 MP D7100 full frame because it has more pixels than a D700.

Canadianguy wrote:

Pentax goes where Nikon and Canon seems to have retreated from...

It appears that Canon abandoned the 1Ds line and Nikon has been silent on a D3x replacement, also silent on the DX pro lines as well (e.g. 7D MKII / D400)

Pentax comes out with a K3 and now a 645D replacement with a price point that beats out all other MF manufacturers.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/04/15/hands-on-with-the-pentax-645z/

Now if only they can get some new lenses out for this monster and the K3 - they should be in a good position to steal some market share from the big boys.

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Rick Knepper
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to sandy b, 4 months ago

sandy b wrote:

I'm sure its a fine camera, but its heavy and slow, (I know, not for MF). Its also ten grand with a lens, so, I think it will be a slow seller, but will make its mark,

It weighs about the same as a 1D X. Yes, I am considering selling off my Nikon kit to help fund a 645Z and some lenses. This will leave me a nice assortment of Canon equipment for more general shooting. The sample images I've seen especially from the imaging resource website have been convincing at least for landscape shooting.

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ultimitsu
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 4 months ago

Dave Luttmann wrote:

sandy b wrote:

I'm sure its a fine camera, but its heavy and slow, (I know, not for MF). Its also ten grand with a lens, so, I think it will be a slow seller, but will make its mark,

Well, a D800e with a nice lens is $5000+.....not exactly cheap either.

D800e system is super cheap compared to 645Z. Everything is about 1/3 the cost.

I think a D4x would sell just fine. Between Sony, Pentax a Nikon....it appears the real question is where it leaves Canon with their low rez bodies and limited dynamic range.

Canon will survive just fine. 2 years on since 5D3 and Canon is still the undisputed King in the FF DSLR world.

Despite what people have been arguing, Canon has no resolution problem. 5D3 and 6D both provide very adequate resolution for over 99.9% professional work and exactly 100% hobbyist work. I have never came across a person telling me 20 MP wasnt enough for what he was doing.

Canon does have a DR problem, but since 6D the problem hasnt been as bad. Canon's other strengths more than make up for the DR weakness.

I am using a D600 and a number of Nikon lenses, but I would be just as happy if I had 6D and Canon lenses.

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to ultimitsu, 4 months ago

ultimitsu wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

sandy b wrote:

I'm sure its a fine camera, but its heavy and slow, (I know, not for MF). Its also ten grand with a lens, so, I think it will be a slow seller, but will make its mark,

Well, a D800e with a nice lens is $5000+.....not exactly cheap either.

D800e system is super cheap compared to 645Z. Everything is about 1/3 the cost.

I think a D4x would sell just fine. Between Sony, Pentax a Nikon....it appears the real question is where it leaves Canon with their low rez bodies and limited dynamic range.

Canon will survive just fine. 2 years on since 5D3 and Canon is still the undisputed King in the FF DSLR world.

king of what?  Not image quality.

Despite what people have been arguing, Canon has no resolution problem. 5D3 and 6D both provide very adequate resolution for over 99.9% professional work and exactly 100% hobbyist work. I have never came across a person telling me 20 MP wasnt enough for what he was doing.

Lowest resolution DSLRs..  For landscape photography, the true kings are Pentax, Sony and Nikon.

Canon does have a DR problem, but since 6D the problem hasnt been as bad. Canon's other strengths more than make up for the DR weakness.

What other strengths?

I am using a D600 and a number of Nikon lenses, but I would be just as happy if I had 6D and Canon lenses.

I wouldn't

I'm not trying to be negative on Canon.  It isn't bashing.  They have the lowest rez sensors with anemic DR.  They need to do some catching up.

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ultimitsu
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 4 months ago

Dave Luttmann wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

Dave Luttmann wrote:

sandy b wrote:

I'm sure its a fine camera, but its heavy and slow, (I know, not for MF). Its also ten grand with a lens, so, I think it will be a slow seller, but will make its mark,

Well, a D800e with a nice lens is $5000+.....not exactly cheap either.

D800e system is super cheap compared to 645Z. Everything is about 1/3 the cost.

I think a D4x would sell just fine. Between Sony, Pentax a Nikon....it appears the real question is where it leaves Canon with their low rez bodies and limited dynamic range.

Canon will survive just fine. 2 years on since 5D3 and Canon is still the undisputed King in the FF DSLR world.

king of what? Not image quality.

Check their sales and market share. Canon is the King.

Despite what people have been arguing, Canon has no resolution problem. 5D3 and 6D both provide very adequate resolution for over 99.9% professional work and exactly 100% hobbyist work. I have never came across a person telling me 20 MP wasnt enough for what he was doing.

Lowest resolution DSLRs.. For landscape photography, the true kings are Pentax, Sony and Nikon.

So you agree that 5D3 and 6D both provide very adequate resolution for over 99.9% professional work and exactly 100% hobbyist work.

Canon does have a DR problem, but since 6D the problem hasnt been as bad. Canon's other strengths more than make up for the DR weakness.

What other strengths?

Better telephoto lens from 100mm upwards, better 24-70, better macro lenses, better video, more accurate AF, better touch screen, better liveview, better wifi implementation.

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tex
tex
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Re: 645Z - medium format for the masses - is there still a market for a D4x?
In reply to ultimitsu, 4 months ago

Despite what people have been arguing, Canon has no resolution problem. 5D3 and 6D both provide very adequate resolution for over 99.9% professional work

Hmmmm.....I think that is an exaggeration by a good margin. I suppose you have some statistics for this....?

and exactly 100% hobbyist work.

That one is probably closer to the mark, in that there are some things that can be said about hobbyist work that pertain, such as print sizes and other display matters, beyond an actual statistical sampling.

I have never came across a person telling me 20 MP wasnt enough for what he was doing.

Congratulations.  You just did.  Funny, I guess it has to do with the circles you travel in, because I know a group of people just in my own area who really want something in the 50-100+/- range for at least some of what they do.  I can already see that my recent jump from 24 to 36 made a difference, a very desirable difference.  Also there is just the matter of the physical sensor size, which you are ignoring.  Given equal tech in 2 sensors of different sizes, the physically larger sensor performs better.

No one helps their arguments through overstatement or hyperbole, and this applies to yours as well.  And I've lived long enough now to understand that I can't speak definitively for other people and their needs.

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PatFahey
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Who is chasing who?
In reply to Canadianguy, 4 months ago

With the new Pentax sporting a CMOS sensor (vs. a CCD), it looks more like yhey are chasing Nikon/Cannon, not the other way around.

But still holding out hope for a D4x.

-Pat

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Dave Luttmann
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Re: Who is chasing who?
In reply to PatFahey, 4 months ago

PatFahey wrote:

With the new Pentax sporting a CMOS sensor (vs. a CCD), it looks more like yhey are chasing Nikon/Cannon, not the other way around.

But still holding out hope for a D4x.

-Pat

ummm...ya.  A 50mp sensor with 14 stops DR for Pentax is chasing a 22mp sensor with 12 stops DR for Canon.  Sounds like you have the definition of chase reversed.

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PatFahey
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Re: Who is chasing who?
In reply to Dave Luttmann, 4 months ago

Dave Luttmann wrote:

PatFahey wrote:

With the new Pentax sporting a CMOS sensor (vs. a CCD), it looks more like yhey are chasing Nikon/Cannon, not the other way around.

But still holding out hope for a D4x.

-Pat

ummm...ya. A 50mp sensor with 14 stops DR for Pentax is chasing a 22mp sensor with 12 stops DR for Canon. Sounds like you have the definition of chase reversed.

The point I was trying to make was more about the CMOS sensor.  If the new Pentax contained a CCD like the original, I'd jump on it.  And hell, the D3x already has more DR than we could ever wring out of film (and with a very CCD-like image quality).

Considering that the cropped MF sensors aren't that much bigger than 35mm, I've always felt that the better selection of hi-quality lenses for Nikon offset that difference.

Although, imagine the quality one could get from a full 6x6 (or 6x7 or 6x9) 50mp CCD sensor -- without having to spend an arm and a leg.  That would be a game-changer (or a system-changer) for me.

-Pat

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DaveE1
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Re: Who is chasing who?
In reply to PatFahey, 4 months ago

Maybe they are. On a flat world somewhere!

Seriously, if Pentax is chasing Nikon with a 50MP 14bit 645Z medium format with all the feature bells and whistles, they have already lapped them a few times.

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