I don't think I get TTL

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MrChristopher
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I don't think I get TTL
3 months ago

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode.  I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take.  I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes.  I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL.  In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well.  Thanks

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clockface
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago

I think that if you use autoiso then the camera will generally expose for the ambient light and add flash as a fill. Try turning autoiso off then flash will become the greater component of the light.

Increase speed or close down the aperture and the TTL flash will contribute more to the overall illumination.

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ryan2007
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago
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Mikess1
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

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MrChristopher
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to Mikess1, 3 months ago

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

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newtoy
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago

MrChristopher wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

-- hide signature --

Partially correct! If your original shutter speed before you turn on the flash is faster than the x-sync speed, then it should change those setting.

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Mikess1
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago

MrChristopher wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

-- hide signature --

yes the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and iso should not change unless of course your in a auto mode

http://500px.com/mikess1

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Mikess1
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to Mikess1, 3 months ago

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

-- hide signature --

yes the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and iso should not change unless of course your in a auto mode

http://500px.com/mikess1

the faster the shutter speed or the higher the aperture the more power the flash will automatically use

-- hide signature --
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MrChristopher
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to Mikess1, 3 months ago

Thanks guys, this is helpful.  I think I get it now.  I have always used manual settings so I'll be experimenting with TTL more this weekend.  Most of my flash units cannot use TTL on the Fuji but my EFx20 sure will.

Cheers!

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Mikess1
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago

MrChristopher wrote:

Thanks guys, this is helpful. I think I get it now. I have always used manual settings so I'll be experimenting with TTL more this weekend. Most of my flash units cannot use TTL on the Fuji but my EFx20 sure will.

Cheers!

-- hide signature --

no problem glad to help! i have actually got a little lazy using TTL so for at least this month i am shooting only manual flash to better understand it 

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carlk
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to MrChristopher, 3 months ago

Anyone knows how Fuji does TTL? Flash systems used to take real time TTL measurement but many (Canon for example) now do a pre-flash and use the data to calculate exposure.

On the other hand a lot of (experienced) photographers actually prefer manual flash to get better and more consistent results. Jut do a few test shots and you're all set.

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BurpeesAreHard
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to Mikess1, 3 months ago

Mikess1 wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

-- hide signature --

yes the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and iso should not change unless of course your in a auto mode

http://500px.com/mikess1

the faster the shutter speed or the higher the aperture the more power the flash will automatically use

You shouldn't think of it this way. You're right that closing the aperture cuts down on the amount of light from the flash, but the flash is much faster than the shutter. MrChristopher is using a camera with a leaf shutter, which can sync at much faster speeds than your X-T1, and any shutter speed within the sync range is fair game.

Older flashes that have an 'auto' mode, using a sensor on the front of the flash itself to cut off the light, have adjustments for ISO and aperture, so the flash can calculate approximately how much light the camera is getting, but no input for shutter speed. It isn't needed. Modern 'flash calculator' apps are the same way.

(not counting whatever FP high speed sync flashes might do, as part of a sequence, since we aren't talking about those)

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SaltLakeGuy
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You got it clockface
In reply to clockface, 3 months ago

clockface wrote:

I think that if you use autoiso then the camera will generally expose for the ambient light and add flash as a fill. Try turning autoiso off then flash will become the greater component of the light.

Increase speed or close down the aperture and the TTL flash will contribute more to the overall illumination.

That is essentially how the flash system works. Also a reason why if one buys a non Fuji non TTL flash it can be just as easy to get the proper exposure desired.

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MrChristopher
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to BurpeesAreHard, 3 months ago

BurpeesAreHard wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

-- hide signature --

yes the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and iso should not change unless of course your in a auto mode

http://500px.com/mikess1

the faster the shutter speed or the higher the aperture the more power the flash will automatically use

You shouldn't think of it this way. You're right that closing the aperture cuts down on the amount of light from the flash, but the flash is much faster than the shutter. MrChristopher is using a camera with a leaf shutter, which can sync at much faster speeds than your X-T1, and any shutter speed within the sync range is fair game.

Older flashes that have an 'auto' mode, using a sensor on the front of the flash itself to cut off the light, have adjustments for ISO and aperture, so the flash can calculate approximately how much light the camera is getting, but no input for shutter speed. It isn't needed. Modern 'flash calculator' apps are the same way.

(not counting whatever FP high speed sync flashes might do, as part of a sequence, since we aren't talking about those)

Good point about the x100.  In this case I'm using the XE1.  And yeah the shutter leaf and synch to 1/2000 on the x100 is what makes that one so special, but i'm trying to figure this TTL business out on my XE1.

I'm very comfortable using manual camera/flash settings (with either camera) but I'm trying to determine if I'm missing anything by not using TTL.  I plan to use it quite a bit this weekend.

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carlk
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to BurpeesAreHard, 3 months ago

BurpeesAreHard wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

Mikess1 wrote:

MrChristopher wrote:

I've been using an x100 and EFx20 for a while now, both in manual mode. I've tried using the flash in TTL but I don't see any difference in the shots I take. I believe TTL adjusts to the environment I don't see any changes in the shutter or aperture or ISO other differences.

I've used auto ISO, shutter and aperture priority, yet I fail to see any difference that TTL makes. I'm not complaining, I'm pleading ignorance.

I'm posting in hopes some of you can enlighten me on what to expect as well as how to get the most out of TTL. In some instances, at least in theory, I can see where it could be beneficial (like at an event).

Also, I picked up an XE1 the other day so I'm now using it as well. Thanks

-- hide signature --

say what now? if you are in fact using TTL then no matter where the flash is or what your camera settings are you will get what the flash thinks is perfect exposure you will get the same exposure for every shot you take unless you use the flash exposure composition to lighten or darken the shot hope this helps

-- hide signature --

are you saying the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and/or aperture/ISO do not change?

Sorry to sound dense, but if I wasn't dense on this subject I would not have posted

-- hide signature --

yes the flash output changes as needed and the shutter and iso should not change unless of course your in a auto mode

http://500px.com/mikess1

the faster the shutter speed or the higher the aperture the more power the flash will automatically use

You shouldn't think of it this way. You're right that closing the aperture cuts down on the amount of light from the flash, but the flash is much faster than the shutter. MrChristopher is using a camera with a leaf shutter, which can sync at much faster speeds than your X-T1, and any shutter speed within the sync range is fair game.

Older flashes that have an 'auto' mode, using a sensor on the front of the flash itself to cut off the light, have adjustments for ISO and aperture, so the flash can calculate approximately how much light the camera is getting, but no input for shutter speed. It isn't needed. Modern 'flash calculator' apps are the same way.

(not counting whatever FP high speed sync flashes might do, as part of a sequence, since we aren't talking about those)

Or you can also open up the aperture and slow down the shutter, as permitted, along with lesser flash power for the so called dragging the shutter technique.  It's popular among wedding and event photographers when they want to incorporate as much ambient and use as little flash as possible to avoid the shadow on the face and shot in the cave flash look.

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virginiajwolf
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Re: I don't think I get TTL
In reply to carlk, 3 months ago

Yes, TTL bypasses the manual approach of shutter for ambient/background and aperture for the subject, since the flash exposure automatically compensates. A good discussion of this is here:

http://neilvn.com/tangents/manual-flash-ttl-flash/

His B&H video on flash is terrific:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mivhtzg7P4s

It's mostly about bounce techniques for portraits/weddings, but he goes into detail on manual vs. TTL about 50min in.

I'm just learning the ef-x20 as well (on an x100s). I love its portability, but for TTL the limited flash exposure compensation and bulky TTL cable bother me (I don't like it on-camera in the hot shoe, with its inability to tilt or swivel). I'm mostly using it on manual. It's fun as an optical slave, using the on-camera flash to trigger it. Here, though, the camera flash is often too bright: the commander mode fires at full power only, it seems, while the regular mode can be dialed down only by -2/3. I may play with filters/diffusers to cut this down and make the x20 more dominant.

For bounce with the small flash, higher ISO helps increase the effective range.

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