Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800

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MickLaF
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Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
5 months ago

Hello,

I know this has been discussed many times in the past, but it usually refers to long exposure times (in which I expect some hot pixels). On my Pentax K-5 at long exposure I had probably 30 hot pixels at 1600 iso, which got mapped out using the menu option. I also know having some hot pixels are a fact of sensors.

However, I just received my D800 yesterday and was taking some pictures. I was NOT intentionally looking for hot pixels at the time and just testing out the Auto ISO mode. So I set the shutter speed to 1/200 and the ISO was automatically set to 6400. I took a picture of my living room to see the low light capabilities I've read great things about. When I loaded up the picture, I thought the ISO noise wasn't too bad, I zoomed in to see how it would be on a crop and noticed hundreds and hundreds of red and blue hot pixels. In a 1:1 zoom, there were anywhere from 30-100 in each portion that I zoomed in on (rough estimate as I gave up counting after a bit).

I'm at work now, so I don't have the picture. But I'm sure you get the idea. Should this be happening that badly at 1/200th of second? They are there at 3200 as well. I just want to make sure because this is one of the bigger purchases I have made and I don't want to kick myself once I'm out of the return window.

I did try taking a couple long exposure high iso pictures promptly followed by two Sensor Cleans in quick success, and it did not seem to help. I know RAW converters will pluck the hot pixels out, but I would rather exchange if this goes beyond the normal expectation of hot pixels.

I'm trying not to be totally naive about hot pixels, but I want to feel confident that all that money went to a good copy of the camera.

Thanks

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

Can anyone confirm if their D800 performs in a similar manner?

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Janoch
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

"Hot pixels" are something else. These are pixels always on (or off) regardless of settings...

You're describing high ISO noise. Try enabling NR in camera, and if you really want to use the highest ISO settings, perhaps try something like Photo Ninja for effective noise reduction.

I'm not sure Capture NX2 can cope, as I never touch these high settings. And frankly, above ISO 400 to 800 you're beginning to degrade the otherwise fairly fine sensor...

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to Janoch, 5 months ago

"Hot pixels" are something else. These are pixels always on (or off) regardless of settings...

You're describing high ISO noise. Try enabling NR in camera, and if you really want to use the highest ISO settings, perhaps try something like Photo Ninja for effective noise reduction.

I'm not sure Capture NX2 can cope, as I never touch these high settings. And frankly, above ISO 400 to 800 you're beginning to degrade the otherwise fairly fine sensor...

If it's always on, that would be a stuck pixel right? I might be off, though.

The spots I'm talking about are at full brightness, red blue or green, and don't look like typical high iso noise. There is plenty of iso noise too, but it's MUCH more subtle than the hot pixels. I've seen hot pixels on other cameras, but not nearly as many as what in seeing here. I mean, there are thousands of them.

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TOF guy
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

Something is amiss. Could you post an image (or better a RAW image)?

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pluton
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

I have had a D800 and D800E for over a year and have not seen such things.

What raw converter are you using? I have seen bad stuff that might be mistaken for hot pixels in iPhoto.

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to TOF guy, 5 months ago

Something is amiss. Could you post an image (or better a RAW image)?

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Thierry - posted as regular forum member

Sure. I'll post an image after work. They pixels are small so it takes a bit of cropping/zooming, but they are there. With how many there are, this has to be the norm, though.

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to pluton, 5 months ago

I have had a D800 and D800E for over a year and have not seen such things.

What raw converter are you using? I have seen bad stuff that might be mistaken for hot pixels in iPhoto.

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-KB-

ACR will pull them out, but I just want to verify that having so many is expected. If it's not, I might as well exchange while I still can. I'll post an image once I get an opportunity.

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user_name
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

Did you under expose?

You will probably have less noise with a higher ISO and a correct exposure (ETTR) than a lower ISO and underexposed shots if you are needing 1/200 shutter speed.  Try it and see.

You also need to have NR enabled.

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Janoch
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to user_name, 5 months ago

Guys, ISO 6400 and 100% pixel peeping... that's enough to make full grown men break down in tears...

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to user_name, 5 months ago

user_name wrote:

Did you under expose?

You will probably have less noise with a higher ISO and a correct exposure (ETTR) than a lower ISO and underexposed shots if you are needing 1/200 shutter speed. Try it and see.

You also need to have NR enabled.

Pictured was exposed well, if not a little over. If I shot it in the middle or underexposed and boosted it in post, it still wouldn't have the pixels on at full strength or red/green/blue. Also, of note, I didn't do any PP to the pictures, myself, the RAW files were viewed directly in Windows Photo Viewer.

For testing (the lens cap shots), I left NR off. ACR will clean the pixels up unless I'm shooting a long exposure star shot. I'm just curious if this is the norm for this camera and its sensor.

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CFynn
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

MickLaF wrote:

...

Sure. I'll post an image after work. They pixels are small so it takes a bit of cropping/zooming, but they are there. With how many there are, this has to be the norm, though.

How much are you zooming in?

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to CFynn, 5 months ago

CFynn wrote:

MickLaF wrote:

...

Sure. I'll post an image after work. They pixels are small so it takes a bit of cropping/zooming, but they are there. With how many there are, this has to be the norm, though.

How much are you zooming in?

It was around a 1:1--enough to see the pixels. Originally I was zooming in to see how well the noise performed compared to my K-5, I wasn't intentionally looking for them. But now knowing that there are so many excited pixels, I just want to see if other's D800s perform similar. I'm suspecting unless I got the crap luck of the century, the sensor having this many hot pixels means that it's pretty typical.

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to Janoch, 5 months ago

Janoch wrote:

Guys, ISO 6400 and 100% pixel peeping... that's enough to make full grown men break down in tears...

Haha. I expect PLENTY of noise under those conditions (better looking than my K-5, though). However, I didn't expect so many hot pixels peppers within the noise. It's there with 3200 as well.

I was fully anticipating getting hazed/blasted for this, but my K-5 had like 30 total before pixel mapping. It also cost much less than the D800 and my money anxiety didn't kick in.

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LMCasey
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

It's not normal to have huge numbers of hot/stuck pixels even at 6400. I don't see this on my D800, and I've taken hundreds of photos at 6400.

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to LMCasey, 5 months ago

By the way, my posts are taking a while to be displayed because I'm a new member. Each one has to wait to be approved by a moderator to make sure I'm not a robot. I was hoping after the first or second time, the restriction would be lifted.

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MickLaF
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Re: Thousands (BILLIONS! j/k) of hot pixels at 1/200 and ISO 6400 on D800
In reply to LMCasey, 5 months ago

LMCasey wrote:

It's not normal to have huge numbers of hot/stuck pixels even at 6400. I don't see this on my D800, and I've taken hundreds of photos at 6400.

Have you looked at the photos through Windows Photo Viewer and zooming in a good amount? Most raw converters will automatically pull them out without you knowing.

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digital ed
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Stuck pixels will be automatically remapped by the camera
In reply to MickLaF, 5 months ago

Manually run sensor clean twice in immediate succession.

Edited: there is a difference between hot and stuck pixels.

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MickLaF
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Re: Hot pixels will be automatically remapped by the camera
In reply to digital ed, 5 months ago

digital ed wrote:

Manually run sensor clean twice in immediate succession.

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"There is a little of not done yet in all of us."
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Thank you for the suggestion. I've tried that a few times and it's the same. I even tried it immediately (by mapping the top menu item to the function button) after a couple long exposures.

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Janoch
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Re: Stuck pixels will be automatically remapped by the camera
In reply to digital ed, 5 months ago

Neither dust nor pixel errors... onlu pure noise...

D800 + ISO6400 + 100% view (or 1:1 as OP said in first post) = lots of noise, not pretty

But let's see the NEF, please.

I'll put a beer on noise!

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