V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
Photo Pete
Senior MemberPosts: 1,596
Like?
V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
3 months ago

I had promised in my response to another forum thread to provide a comparison between the Nikon V1/V2 and the new Olympus OM-D EM10, given that a number of forum users are considering both brands of camera.

I will precede my comments below by stating that I have decided to keep the Olympus rather than the V1/V2s that I have been using for the past couple of years. Other than for frame rate and fast action shooting I believe that the Olympus provides the better photographic solution for day to day shooting and that it better emulates the functionality of a dSLR in a miniature package. However, both systems are very capable and I wouldn’t be considering the Olympus if Nikon hadn’t goofed with the V3 EVF, flash and pricing, which has lost my confidence in the direction of future Nikon 1 V series cameras.

I will also come clean and admit that I had posted another thread in which my conclusion was to retain the V2 in preference to the EM10. The reasons I gave in that thread with regard to performance are still valid, but I have now had more time to spend with the EM10 and more time to customize the settings and work with the files. My view has changed, no doubt assisted by my continued disappointment with the V3 announcement.

Ergonomics and Build

The size of the two cameras and lenses are so similar as to be not worthy of comment. The V2 remains smaller than the EM10 with longer telephoto lenses attached, but not by any significant margin.

Both cameras are well built. The EM10 ‘feels’ slightly heavier and more robust and the dials and buttons feel more purposeful than those of the V2. However, in my opinion the V2 is the more ergonomically comfy camera to handle. The EM10 is a little too sharp cornered and angular to be a truly comfortable hold. It isn’t a major problem, just that the V2 feels more comfortable in the hand.

Controls

The EM10 has a better control layout. Two dedicated function buttons and the movie record button can be customised to a wide range of functions. The four way controller can also be assigned a number of options. Other items which require access can generally be found easily to hand on the ‘super control panel’. This is a display screen which lays out all of the key shooting settings on one page so that they may be accessed or changed using the four way controller or the touch screen. The ease of access to the multiple functions, once configured to your own preference, make the camera a real joy to use. Don't be put off (as I was at first) by the complexity of the initial control customisation.

One other main difference with the control layout is that the EM10 keeps all the button controls on the right hand side of the rear screen, just like on the V1. I could never work out why Nikon chose to move buttons to the left hand side of the screen on the V2. This might work on their larger DSLRs, but they become virtually impossible to use with the camera up to your eye on a camera as small as the V2.

The EM10 also has custom menu sets which make recalling banks of settings for different shooting scenarios a very simple task. These are proper custom menus which retain their settings (unlike the soft custom menus of the Nikon DSLRs)

Functions and Features

The EM10 has a whole raft of features, modes and scene modes. Most reviews tend to treat this as a plus point, but my own view is that most of these features and modes are unnecessary and can get in the way of the camera when in use. Why would I want to carry out in-camera HDR when I can get better results in post processing? Why does an enthusiast camera need art filters which again can be applied much more successfully in post processing?

The good news is that the control system of the EM10 is laid out in such a way that the additional features just don’t get in the way, but remain at hand if you want to use them.

The features of real note that differentiate between the EM10 and V2 are as follows:-

Video – The V2 is by far the better option here. The PDAF focussing gives smoother video performance and the option to take 400fps or 1200fps slow motion video is a nice bonus for the V2.

The EM10, however, has bracketing, time-lapse (with cumulative live view), tilting rear screen and wi-fi. The wi-fi in itself is a lovely feature, permitting wireless control of the camera and upload of images onto a smartphone or tablet.

Viewfinder and Image Review

Both viewfinders are very smooth in good light. In low light the V2 viewfinder image appears smoother than that of the EM10, which appears to become slightly jerkier (perhaps slowing down the refresh rate in low light?). The V2 viewfinder image is, however, more noisy and grainy in low light.

The displayed information in the EM10 viewfinder can be customized and includes electronic levels and histograms, giving a more informative view.

The image review of the EM10 can be turned off, just as with the V2. Users on this forum know only too well that this is not also the case with the V1.

One real annoyance I have had with the V2 is the lag between altering menu settings and the viewfinder refreshing to display the shooting settings again. The EM10 has no such lag and this makes the camera feel substantially quicker to use that the V2.

An omission from the V1 and V2 was the ability to switch between images whilst zoomed in when reviewing them. With the EM10 this is possible.

The touch screen of the EM10 also makes image review, scrolling and zooming a much easier task, similar to viewing images on a smartphone.

Focus

There is virtually no discernable difference in speed of autofocus acquisition between the V2 and EM10. Both are extremely quick in reasonable light and slow down to a similar degree in low light.

Continuous autofocus and focus tracking is a different matter and the V2 is substantially better. Whilst the EM10 gives a relatively high success rate for more sedately or predictably moving subjects (walkers, joggers, vehicles moving in a straight and predictable line) it visibly hunts back and forth continuously in AF-C mode and tracking is a very hit and miss affair for anything that is not moving relatively slowly or predictably. I have tried shooting junior football matches with both cameras and the EM10 is not the sort of camera you want to use for that scenario. Of course you can use it and have some success – many years ago we used to use manual focus for sports - but the V2 will provide a vastly greater keeper rate.

However, the implementation and user control of the focus system strongly favours the EM10. With the V2 you have to select tracking mode, press the centre button of the rear controller to activate tracking and then press the shutter button to activate autofocus. Should you wish to stop tracking you need to use a separate AF lock button or re-centre the AF point using the centre button of the rear controller. The whole implementation is rather clunky. The EM10 however allows you to use one of the function buttons as an AF-On button and to decouple focus from the shutter button, just as is the case with the upper range Nikon DSLRs. The system works excellently and makes triggering continuous or tracking AF or locking focus (to permit focus and re-compose) a very simple process. It is also possible to dedicate a separate function button to switch to AF-S with manual override (with focus peaking), activated by using the lens focus ring.

The usability and flexibility of setting up the focus system to be controlled in the way you want it to be controlled cannot be understated. So much so that after customising the camera I believe that the EM10 focus system is more useable than that of the V2 for anything other than erratic or fast moving action shots.

Buffer and Continuous Shooting

The V2 is the better option here by a long, long margin. The EM10 has 3.5fps with autofocus and can sustain that for about 10-15 RAW frames before slowing down. It can achieve 8fps with focus locked on the first exposure. The V2 can just blow this away with 15fps with autofocus or up to 60fps with focus locked on the first exposure.

Shutter and Image Stabilisation

The EM10 only has a mechanical shutter and the tactile vibration from this is noticeable when holding the camera. It is audibly about a loud as the mechanical shutter on the V2, but has a longer klunk-unk sound. Since my first comparison post between the two cameras I have been unable to find any discernable trace of shutter shock from the EM10 shutter at any shutter speed whilst handholding the camera. I have shown in another post, however, that the V1 and V2 can exhibit shutter shock at around 1/160 second when using VR and mechanical shutter. This can obviously be overcome by using the V1 / V2 electronic shutter if required, which also gives totally silent shooting which the EM10 cannot achieve.

Image stabilisation on the EM10 appears about as effective as that on the V2 (with 30-110mm lens). I can achieve about a 3 stop improvement with either.

Exposure and White Balance

Automated exposure for both cameras is generally pretty reliable. The EM10 appears to expose slightly more to the left than the V2 which helps preserve highlights and makes a little bit more use of its greater dynamic range should you wish to brighten the images in post processing. I would call both systems fairly equal here.

Where the EM10 again trumps the V2 is that it permits the display of a live histogram whilst shooting.

When using Programme or Aperture Priority mode with Auto ISO the V1 and V2 have the tendency to drop the shutter speed to very low levels (1/15sec or 1/30sec) before raising ISO. This can result in motion blur for many point and shoot scenarios. The EM10 tends to treat 1/’(35mm equivalent focal length)’ as the minimum shutter speed before raising ISO, much as per the latest Nikon DSLR implementation of Auto ISO.

Auto white balance for the EM10 and V2 is extremely good and much better than with my Nikon DSLRs. Nothing to worry about with either camera.

Flash

The EM10 wins out with regard to flash functionality. It is compatible with standard flash units and the in-built flash can be used as a wireless commander unit.

One oddity that I’ve noticed with the EM10 is that the flash exposures appear to be weighted towards fill-in flash, with the exposures being some 1 to 1.5 stops too dark when the flash is used as the main or only source of light. This isn’t really an issue as you can leave flash exposure compensation set to +1.3 to compensate if you are using the flash regularly as the main light source.

Another difference between the in-built flashes in the V2 and EM10 is in their operation with Auto ISO set. With Auto ISO the V2 picks the ISO required for the ambient light exposure, the EM10 picks the lowest ISO required to achieve correct flash exposure (setting ISO 200 and increasing only if the flash power isn’t strong enough for correct exposure). Personally I favour the EM10 approach here, but both are equally valid depending on your own point of view.

Image Quality

In terms of noise and detail the EM10 is better than the V2 by just less than 1 stop if processing from RAW. In terms of dynamic range and colour reproduction the advantage to the EM10 appears to be closer to 1.5 stops at high ISO when processing from RAW. I’m sure these don’t coincide with DXOs figures, but that is what I’m finding when working with the files… not a scientific test, but probably more practical in a real world scenario!

So there we have it. Hopefully the above will be of use to some of you. There isn't much between the cameras really, but Nikon has lost my faith in where the 1 system is heading whilst Olympus and micro 4/3s seem to be sailing in the direction I want to go. I know where I want to invest my money (and less of it than for the equivalent Nikon 1 system!!!)

-- hide signature --

Have Fun
Photo Pete

Nikon 1 V1 Nikon 1 V2 Nikon 1 V3 Olympus E-M1 Olympus OM-D E-M10
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
dougjgreen1
Senior MemberPosts: 1,988Gear list
Like?
Not to mention all those great fast M4/3 prime lenses
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Nikon 1 has 3 primes, which can be described as:

1) an inexpensive 10mm f2.8 pancake wide angle - basically comparable to the Panasonic 14mm f2.5

2) The 18.5mm f1.8  - a good, fast normal lens - comparable to the  Olympus 25mm f1.8

3) The 32mm f1.2  - very fast portrait length lens, - comparable to the Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f1.2

Now, all of these Nikon 1 lenses cost at least 1/3 less than the Micro 4/3 alternatives, which is nice, but there are many other fast prime lens choices for Micro 4/3 as well:

12mm f2,  15mm f1.7,  17mm f1.8,  20mm f1.7,  25mm f1.4,  45mm f1.8,  75mm f1.8

as well as several slower but more economical lens choices as well:

Sigma's 19mm, 30mm, and 60mm f2.8 lenses,   as well as Olympus 17mm f2.8 pancake, and the twomuch cheaper Olympus Body cap lenses, 9mm f8 and 15mm f8.

In addition, Micro 4/3 has not only economical kit level zoom lenses, but also constant aperture pro caliber zoom lenses  from both Panasonic and Olympus, in both the wide to short tele range, as well as in the ultra-wide range, and the moderate tele range.

The ONLY Nikon 1 lens that is not matched or exceeded in Micro 4/3 is the new 70-300mm.

 dougjgreen1's gear list:dougjgreen1's gear list
Olympus Stylus XZ-10 Nikon 1 V1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Nikon 1 V2 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JacquesC
Senior MemberPosts: 1,377
Like?
Thanks!
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Thanks for posting this, it made for very interesting reading and answers some questions that I had.

Here is something that you can perhaps also answer:

Can the EM-10 be set up to have the EVF (and or LCD) display the scene the way it will look once the photo has been taken? In other words, does it offer a realtime view of the exposed image, going darker or lighter in realtime as you adjust exposure compensation?

I know the Fuji XT-1 does this and it is something that will be REALLY helpful to have. The photo on the XT-1 looks EXCACTLY the same after exposure as it did in the EVF before exposure. On my V1 you can get a similar effect when applying EC, but you have to press the set button first, and is not 100% accurate.

-- hide signature --

Jacques
apple-and-eve.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
andrbar
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,759Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Thanks a lot for your very informative post about the comparison between the V2 and the EM10.

I found it extremely useful. I love to read this kind of informative, unbiased posts.

What is surprising is the difference in image quality, which you find not that big.
I was thinking that at high iso, the OM10 would do much better than the V2, noise wise.

That's what I see when I have a look at Imaging Ressources samples, or at the comparison tool here at Dpreview. When comparing the Oly with the J3 (the V2 has not been tested here), I see about 1.5 to 2 stops advantage in favour of the Oly. But, I'm no expert.

Anyway, thanks again. Feel free to share your findings with us.

-- hide signature --
 andrbar's gear list:andrbar's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P7100 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 55-200mm f/4-5.6G VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon 1 Nikkor VR 10-30mm f/3.5-5.6 +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dimac
Regular MemberPosts: 124
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Photo Pete wrote:

...

Functions and Features

... The EM10, ..., tilting rear screen and wi-fi. The wi-fi in itself is a lovely feature, permitting wireless control of the camera and upload of images onto a smartphone or tablet.

Viewfinder and Image Review

....The touch screen of the EM10 also makes image review, scrolling and zooming a much easier task, similar to viewing images on a smartphone.

Buffer and Continuous Shooting

The V2 is the better option here by a long, long margin. The EM10 has 3.5fps with autofocus and can sustain that for about 10-15 RAW frames before slowing down. It can achieve 8fps with focus locked on the first exposure. The V2 can just blow this away with 15fps with autofocus or up to 60fps with focus locked on the first exposure.

Shutter and Image Stabilisation

The EM10 only has a mechanical shutter and the tactile vibration from this is noticeable when holding the camera. ...

I do not see any sense to compare the new EM10 with old Nikon1 models!

Those things that you like on EM10 you will get now with the V3 which is the real competitor. All in all I see more advantages for the Nikon1 system, especially the V3.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
samfan
Contributing MemberPosts: 841Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Your experience mirror my observations. V2 is a fine camera and can stand on its own, but is still quite limited by not being photographer-friendly enough (controls, no bracketing etc.). Olympus was quicker to learn the lesson that even a non-high-end camera cannot be so limited.

That and when we include the whole ecosystem including lenses and other models (either higher, like E-M1/V3, or lower, like E-PMx/Jx), not to mention compatibility with Panasonic and maybe soon Kodak, Nikon really have work cut out for them with N1.

Sure, one can take pictures with just about anything that has an imaging sensor, but why not pick up a tool that's best for a particular job?

Dimac wrote:

Those things that you like on EM10 you will get now with the V3 which is the real competitor.

For twice the price? Er, okay.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
retro76
Regular MemberPosts: 157
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Be careful in choosing the word "invest" - Olympus and Panasonic are struggling financially and while Nikon has seen better years they are not going anywhere. I would bet the house that (unfortunately) the m43rd format iwill be dead in about 2-3 years. Mirrorless in general is mostly popular with camera geeks, but not the general public. Canon and Nikon have been chastised for not investing more into this format, but these are not stupid companies they are waiting for the right time to fully enter the market and everyone knows this just isn't it and are simply testing the waters at this point. Love them or hate them, Nikon and Canon will dominate this market when the time is right (though for Nikon it may not be a 1 inch sensor, but a whole new format).

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Bobby Handal
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,103Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Very nice posts above. I like both systems (nikon 1 and M4/3) and own a EM5 and other m4/3 cameras. One thing I like about the V2 is the amount of keepers I get because of focusing accuracy , specially shooting birds near branches, busy backgrounds, etc.  I still feel that in that case M4/3 system is a little behind.

As a birder, having up to a 600mm equivalent in M 4/3 was nice, in a compact package. This was an advantage over other mirrorless systems, but now Nikon, with the announcement of the zoom that will be over 800mm will have the advantage.

Again, as a birder, utilizing my big nikkor lenses on both systems (M4/3 versus 1) , obviously the series 1 beats it, because :

a) M4/3 has a 2x crop, nice but never as nice as a 2.7x crop, more reach is better for me.

b) With Nikon series 1 - I have AF and VR with my Nikkor lenses with the FT-1 adapter, to my knowledge there is no adapter that AF with other lense for either m4/3 or series 1 at this time.

regardless, these are great times !!

-- hide signature --

www.photoexpedition.net
www.fotoclubhonduras.com

 Bobby Handal's gear list:Bobby Handal's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Panasonic Lumix DMC-TS3 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX400V Olympus PEN E-PL1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3 +47 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Photo Pete
Senior MemberPosts: 1,596
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to andrbar, 3 months ago

Thanks a lot for your very informative post about the comparison between the V2 and the EM10.

I found it extremely useful. I love to read this kind of informative, unbiased posts.

What is surprising is the difference in image quality, which you find not that big.
I was thinking that at high iso, the OM10 would do much better than the V2, noise wise.

That's what I see when I have a look at Imaging Ressources samples, or at the comparison tool here at Dpreview. When comparing the Oly with the J3 (the V2 has not been tested here), I see about 1.5 to 2 stops advantage in favour of the Oly. But, I'm no expert.

Anyway, thanks again. Feel free to share your findings with us.

-- hide signature --

The Olympus jpegs out of camera are much better than those from the V2. The RAW files are not so different.
--
Have Fun
Photo Pete

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Photo Pete
Senior MemberPosts: 1,596
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Dimac, 3 months ago

Photo Pete wrote:

...

Functions and Features

... The EM10, ..., tilting rear screen and wi-fi. The wi-fi in itself is a lovely feature, permitting wireless control of the camera and upload of images onto a smartphone or tablet.

Viewfinder and Image Review

....The touch screen of the EM10 also makes image review, scrolling and zooming a much easier task, similar to viewing images on a smartphone.

Buffer and Continuous Shooting

The V2 is the better option here by a long, long margin. The EM10 has 3.5fps with autofocus and can sustain that for about 10-15 RAW frames before slowing down. It can achieve 8fps with focus locked on the first exposure. The V2 can just blow this away with 15fps with autofocus or up to 60fps with focus locked on the first exposure.

Shutter and Image Stabilisation

The EM10 only has a mechanical shutter and the tactile vibration from this is noticeable when holding the camera. ...

I do not see any sense to compare the new EM10 with old Nikon1 models!

Those things that you like on EM10 you will get now with the V3 which is the real competitor. All in all I see more advantages for the Nikon1 system, especially the V3.

I like an EVF and bounce flash. I like wireless flash.

I don't like clip on EVFs. That was one of the things that drew me to the V1 and V2.

I like an AF-on button and decoupling the AF from the shutter release.
--
Have Fun
Photo Pete

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GXRuser
Contributing MemberPosts: 656
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to retro76, 3 months ago

Be careful in choosing the word "invest" - Olympus and Panasonic are struggling financially and while Nikon has seen better years they are not going anywhere. I would bet the house that (unfortunately) the m43rd format iwill be dead in about 2-3 years. Mirrorless in general is mostly popular with camera geeks, but not the general public. Canon and Nikon have been chastised for not investing more into this format, but these are not stupid companies they are waiting for the right time to fully enter the market and everyone knows this just isn't it and are simply testing the waters at this point. Love them or hate them, Nikon and Canon will dominate this market when the time is right (though for Nikon it may not be a 1 inch sensor, but a whole new format).

I don't think micro 4/3 will be gone.

I think 1" (cx) remains a viable system. Sony Rx10, Rx100, and Nikon's Cx show manufacturers are still experimenting.

I do not understand why Nikon has not introduced a DX or FX camera substituting a high quality EVF (and focus peaking) for the mirror and pentaprism (or pentamirror) finder. This should be an addition, not replacement for the current dSLRs.

I would think such a camera would expand, not canibalize their sales.

The same can be said for Pentax (K-01 was close, but no EVF), Canon (EOS-M needed an EVF, but it had a good EOS adapter), and Leica.

Sony has the A99 and other SLT cameras with either FX or DX sized sensors. They are now moving to  full mirror-less designs with the NEX series including the new A6000 the A7 series.

In the US, one wants to sees mirror-less with full support of the entire catalog of Nikkor lenses, AF-S or AF-D (AI and earlier lenses are well managed with a Sony A7x or NEX and a good quality adapter.)

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
BarnET
Senior MemberPosts: 1,157Gear list
Like?
Re: Not to mention all those great fast M4/3 prime lenses
In reply to dougjgreen1, 3 months ago

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Nikon 1 has 3 primes, which can be described as:

1) an inexpensive 10mm f2.8 pancake wide angle - basically comparable to the Panasonic 14mm f2.5

The Pana is faster and the sensor is nearly double the surface area.

2) The 18.5mm f1.8 - a good, fast normal lens - comparable to the Olympus 25mm f1.8

Uhm no it's not even close.

3) The 32mm f1.2 - very fast portrait length lens, - comparable to the Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f1.2

LMAO, never heard of light gathering, O.I.S.

Now, all of these Nikon 1 lenses cost at least 1/3 less than the Micro 4/3 alternatives, which is nice, but there are many other fast prime lens choices for Micro 4/3 as well:

They are nowhere near their equiv. and the 10mm F2.8 is not 1/3 the price of the 14mm

12mm f2, 15mm f1.7, 17mm f1.8, 20mm f1.7, 25mm f1.4, 45mm f1.8, 75mm f1.8

And the 20mm F1.7 is good value. Cheaper then the Oly 25mm Just like the 45mm F1.8 which becomes an 90mm F3.6 very close to the nikon 32mm at 85mm f3.3

as well as several slower but more economical lens choices as well:

Sigma's 19mm, 30mm, and 60mm f2.8 lenses,

These are great lenses for Apsc camera's like the Sony NEX line. The Focal lengths on m43 are not that useful and there are smaller faster options available.

look at this to make it clear how inferior the Nikon 1 system really is!

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-1-NIKKOR-18-5mm-F18-on-Nikon-1-V1-versus-Sigma-30mm-F28-EX-DN-Sony-E-on-Sony-A3000___1020_745_828_906

About the same equiv. focal range and DOUBLE the resolution

as well as

Olympus 17mm f2.8 pancake,

That olympus is a soft lens that should be avoided

and the twomuch cheaper Olympus Body cap lenses, 9mm f8 and 15mm f8.

In addition, Micro 4/3 has not only economical kit level zoom lenses, but also constant aperture pro caliber zoom lenses from both Panasonic and Olympus, in both the wide to short tele range, as well as in the ultra-wide range, and the moderate tele range.

The ONLY Nikon 1 lens that is not matched or exceeded in Micro 4/3 is the new 70-300mm.

Which is a 1000!!!! dollars for a 70-300 for a pathetic system

Micro 4/3 has a good 75-300 which is half that much. and who needs that range anyway on a mirrorless. Get the Tamron 150-600 for the same money on a proper Nikon Dslr if your into this kind of work.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nung
Contributing MemberPosts: 612Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to retro76, 3 months ago

retro76 wrote:

Be careful in choosing the word "invest" - Olympus and Panasonic are struggling financially and while Nikon has seen better years they are not going anywhere. I would bet the house that (unfortunately) the m43rd format iwill be dead in about 2-3 years. Mirrorless in general is mostly popular with camera geeks, but not the general public. Canon and Nikon have been chastised for not investing more into this format, but these are not stupid companies they are waiting for the right time to fully enter the market and everyone knows this just isn't it and are simply testing the waters at this point. Love them or hate them, Nikon and Canon will dominate this market when the time is right (though for Nikon it may not be a 1 inch sensor, but a whole new format).

No, m43 will not be gone in 2-3 years, in fact, I can't see it going in any time soon. This is a system that had gone through the worst part of its time and survived, it is here to stay. The 1" sensor is also here to stay. However, I can see the smaller sensor going and being replaced by smartphones.

Mirrorless is not just for camera geeks, in fact it's well received in general public, might not sell a whole bunch in the US, but it's definitely doing well in Asia. Only problem is, they are expensive in comparison to DSLR and they don't have the name Canon or Nikon on it.

 Nung's gear list:Nung's gear list
Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D +12 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MarsObserver
Regular MemberPosts: 251Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Photo Pete, 3 months ago

Nice comparison Photo Pete of two similarly sized ILC cameras.

Ultimately, I chose the 'other path' opting to keep my Nikon1 system, and sell my Micro 4/3 kit.

I think the main difference between your scenario and mine is that perhaps you're looking to shoot with a single camera.  And I agree - if I were to choose only 1 camera/system - the M4/3 system and E-M10 would be at the top of the list!

However... in my case... I'm looking to use a 'dual' system - a camera that will *compliment* (rather than replace) my full-frame camera (whether the Nikon D700 or Sony A7).

In that scenario, the advantage goes to the V1/V2/V3 (IMHO), especially so for existing Nikon shooters where the 2.7x crop factor and FT-1 adapters offer huge advantages that the M4/3 simply can't match.

So... will you be slinging one gun, or two?  That's the question!

 MarsObserver's gear list:MarsObserver's gear list
Sony RX100 Nikon D700 Nikon 1 V2 Sony Alpha 7 Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tripeiro
New MemberPosts: 10
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to Nung, 3 months ago

Nung wrote:

retro76 wrote:

Be careful in choosing the word "invest" - Olympus and Panasonic are struggling financially and while Nikon has seen better years they are not going anywhere. I would bet the house that (unfortunately) the m43rd format iwill be dead in about 2-3 years. Mirrorless in general is mostly popular with camera geeks, but not the general public. Canon and Nikon have been chastised for not investing more into this format, but these are not stupid companies they are waiting for the right time to fully enter the market and everyone knows this just isn't it and are simply testing the waters at this point. Love them or hate them, Nikon and Canon will dominate this market when the time is right (though for Nikon it may not be a 1 inch sensor, but a whole new format).

No, m43 will not be gone in 2-3 years, in fact, I can't see it going in any time soon. This is a system that had gone through the worst part of its time and survived, it is here to stay. The 1" sensor is also here to stay. However, I can see the smaller sensor going and being replaced by smartphones.

Mirrorless is not just for camera geeks, in fact it's well received in general public, might not sell a whole bunch in the US, but it's definitely doing well in Asia. Only problem is, they are expensive in comparison to DSLR and they don't have the name Canon or Nikon on it.

Of course it won`t. The m4/3 is a pretty mature system right now and it is quite popular in Asia and seems to be getting traction in Europe. Panasonic and Olympus are not going anywhere either, their camera divison is just a small part of their business, and at least Olympus is doing quite well regarding profits. Nikon on the other hand depends mostly of their camera division and although they are still profitable, they seem to be going downhill... which is not surprising with their lack of inovation, treating their customers like s*it and ridiculous pricing of some products. If they don`t have a drastic change they will probably go bust. And that is not good for us, customers.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Vincent Aquilino
Regular MemberPosts: 300
Like?
Re: Not to mention all those great fast M4/3 prime lenses
In reply to BarnET, 3 months ago

Pathetic System.Do you own the Nikon 1?So you use dxo to buy camera equipment based upon numeric numbers? That is pathetic.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dmaclau
Senior MemberPosts: 1,350Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to retro76, 3 months ago

retro76 wrote:

Be careful in choosing the word "invest" - Olympus and Panasonic are struggling financially and while Nikon has seen better years they are not going anywhere. I would bet the house that (unfortunately) the m43rd format iwill be dead in about 2-3 years. Mirrorless in general is mostly popular with camera geeks, but not the general public. Canon and Nikon have been chastised for not investing more into this format, but these are not stupid companies they are waiting for the right time to fully enter the market and everyone knows this just isn't it and are simply testing the waters at this point. Love them or hate them, Nikon and Canon will dominate this market when the time is right (though for Nikon it may not be a 1 inch sensor, but a whole new format).

Perhaps.  It's hard to tell.  I don't think that any of the camera manufacturer's are presently in their "salad days."

It strikes me though that the question isn't if 4/3 will wither and Nikon thrive, but rather will 4/3 wither and 1" thrive.  I suspect they'll each likely share a similar fate.

On another note,  anyone know why they call the sensor 1"?  It's not.

 dmaclau's gear list:dmaclau's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sigma DP3 Merrill Panasonic Lumix DMC-G2 Nikon 1 V1 Fujifilm X-M1 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
MarsObserver
Regular MemberPosts: 251Gear list
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to dmaclau, 3 months ago

dmaclau wrote:

On another note, anyone know why they call the sensor 1"? It's not.

The term dates waaaaaay back to the time of television tubes.

Something about the actual, usable sensor size being 16mm per each 1" of a TV tube.

How that got adopted by cameras I'm not sure other than TV, video and stills are all intermingled (like the development / introduction of 35mm film.)  Video is, after all, just 'moving pictures'  

Does anyone know if 'The Walking Dead' (TV show) is still being filmed on 16mm film??

 MarsObserver's gear list:MarsObserver's gear list
Sony RX100 Nikon D700 Nikon 1 V2 Sony Alpha 7 Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Photo Pete
Senior MemberPosts: 1,596
Like?
Re: V1/V2 vs OM-D E-M10 (take 2)
In reply to MarsObserver, 3 months ago

Nice comparison Photo Pete of two similarly sized ILC cameras.

Ultimately, I chose the 'other path' opting to keep my Nikon1 system, and sell my Micro 4/3 kit.

I think the main difference between your scenario and mine is that perhaps you're looking to shoot with a single camera.  And I agree - if I were to choose only 1 camera/system - the M4/3 system and E-M10 would be at the top of the list!

However... in my case... I'm looking to use a 'dual' system - a camera that will *compliment* (rather than replace) my full-frame camera (whether the Nikon D700 or Sony A7).

In that scenario, the advantage goes to the V1/V2/V3 (IMHO), especially so for existing Nikon shooters where the 2.7x crop factor and FT-1 adapters offer huge advantages that the M4/3 simply can't match.

So... will you be slinging one gun, or two?  That's the question!

I'll be keeping my D3s and D800 with 14-24, 24-70 and 80-400 afs. The Olympus will be the light-weight walk around.

That is really the reason I'm not too concerned about the focus tracking for fast action... I'll be using the dSLRs for any serious sports stuff. The Olympus actually allows me to configure it to handle more like a Nikon dSLR than the Nikon V2 does and its focus performance for less extreme action is fine.

Oh Nikon!.... you really should think of these cameras as part of a cohesive range with your dSLRs rather than as competing against each other. If I could use the same batteries and flashes and remotes and GPS units etc on your dSLRs and mirrorless and compacts I wouldn't feel so free to uproot and go to a different brand. As it is I have to buy new accessories for each of your ranges and so there is no real incentive for me to have all of my cameras as Nikon. The FT-1 is ok, but a crop from the D800 will give most of that reach without losing AF functionality.

-- hide signature --

Have Fun
Photo Pete

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dougjgreen1
Senior MemberPosts: 1,988Gear list
Like?
Re: Not to mention all those great fast M4/3 prime lenses
In reply to BarnET, 3 months ago

BarnET wrote:

dougjgreen1 wrote:

Nikon 1 has 3 primes, which can be described as:

1) an inexpensive 10mm f2.8 pancake wide angle - basically comparable to the Panasonic 14mm f2.5

The Pana is faster and the sensor is nearly double the surface area.

I agree - so? The Nikon lens is also less expensive

2) The 18.5mm f1.8 - a good, fast normal lens - comparable to the Olympus 25mm f1.8

Uhm no it's not even close.

Have you used both? If you have, I'll take your word for it. If not, what's your basis for that claim?

3) The 32mm f1.2 - very fast portrait length lens, - comparable to the Leica Nocticron 42.5mm f1.2

LMAO, never heard of light gathering, O.I.S.

Both lenses are f1.2. I was not referring to depth of field, I WAS referring to light gathering - which is the same for any f1.2 lens. Not sure that OIS is reason to justify a $700 higher price for the Noct. Maybe they sell the lenses by the ounce.

Now, all of these Nikon 1 lenses cost at least 1/3 less than the Micro 4/3 alternatives, which is nice, but there are many other fast prime lens choices for Micro 4/3 as well:

They are nowhere near their equiv. and the 10mm F2.8 is not 1/3 the price of the 14mm

I never said it was 1/3 the cost. I said it was 1/3 less, i.e. 2/3 the cost. Typical cost for new lenses split from kits is $115-120 for the 10mm Nikon, $175 - 180 for the Panasonic 14mm.

12mm f2, 15mm f1.7, 17mm f1.8, 20mm f1.7, 25mm f1.4, 45mm f1.8, 75mm f1.8

And the 20mm F1.7 is good value. Cheaper then the Oly 25mm Just like the 45mm F1.8 which becomes an 90mm F3.6 very close to the nikon 32mm at 85mm f3.3

as well as several slower but more economical lens choices as well:

Sigma's 19mm, 30mm, and 60mm f2.8 lenses,

These are great lenses for Apsc camera's like the Sony NEX line. The Focal lengths on m43 are not that useful and there are smaller faster options available.

Actually, I find the Sigma 19mm and 60mm to be EXTREMELY useful on Micro 4/3 - The 19mm is sharper than the Olympus 17mm lenses, and much faster to focus than the Panasonic 20mm. And the 60mm is simply a spectacular lens that fills a useful short-medium telephoto slot. I agree with respect to the 30mm.

look at this to make it clear how inferior the Nikon 1 system really is!

http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-1-NIKKOR-18-5mm-F18-on-Nikon-1-V1-versus-Sigma-30mm-F28-EX-DN-Sony-E-on-Sony-A3000___1020_745_828_906

That test says much more about the sensor resolution than it does about the lenses. The fact is, the identical lens always scores higher in the DxO metric when it's used on a bigger sensor - even if the performance of that lens is dreadful in the extremities that are outside of the smaller sensor, and good in the center. Check out the old Nikon 24-120mm zoom for a textbook example of this.

About the same equiv. focal range and DOUBLE the resolution

Which, as I said, is a function of the sensor, not the lens

as well as

Olympus 17mm f2.8 pancake,

That olympus is a soft lens that should be avoided

Yes, so? it's maybe the one example of a dud lens in the whole system.

and the twomuch cheaper Olympus Body cap lenses, 9mm f8 and 15mm f8.

In addition, Micro 4/3 has not only economical kit level zoom lenses, but also constant aperture pro caliber zoom lenses from both Panasonic and Olympus, in both the wide to short tele range, as well as in the ultra-wide range, and the moderate tele range.

The ONLY Nikon 1 lens that is not matched or exceeded in Micro 4/3 is the new 70-300mm.

Which is a 1000!!!! dollars for a 70-300 for a pathetic system

It's got far superior features to the Micro 4/3 300mm zooms. Nikon makes a comparable lens to the two long zooms in Micro 4/3, that you can buy for much less (used ones go for around $325), and use with an adapter, but to resolve a tight-packed sensor requires a better lens. I'm expecting this Nikkor will deliver to that, given it's design, construction, coatings. etc.

Micro 4/3 has a good 75-300 which is half that much. and who needs that range anyway on a mirrorless. Get the Tamron 150-600 for the same money on a proper Nikon Dslr if your into this kind of work.

Very unlikely that the Micro 4/3 75-300 lens (or the 100-300) is anywhere near as good as the new Nikkor, given the design of this Nikkor, and the indifferent test results for the Oly 75-300 and Panasonic 100-300.

Look - I happen to be an advocate of Micro 4/3 for most things, relative to Nikon 1. But shooting action with long telephotos is simply not one of those things. I use Micro 4/3 for 80+% of what I shoot - but the system has a deficiency in shooting action with long telephotos - and that happens to be the Nikon 1 system's main strength - particularly in good light.

 dougjgreen1's gear list:dougjgreen1's gear list
Olympus Stylus XZ-10 Nikon 1 V1 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G5 Olympus PEN E-PL5 Nikon 1 V2 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads