m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
ludwik123
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Re: Love it, love it, love it Michael!
In reply to agentlossing, 5 months ago

agentlossing wrote:

What a fun read this thread has been! There were many things to chuckle at, and I can't help but be secretly, just a little bit, pleased at Ken Rockwell being unfairly thrown under the bus (it's a crying shame! Back up and run him over again!).

The sad element is that toting an SLR says NOTHING about how "serious" you are, as the thousands of yuppies with a Nikon or Canon entry level DSLR slung over thier shoulder by those annoying brand ad slings so aptly display...

It's a mad mad mad world!!!!!!!!!

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Martin.au
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to arbuz, 5 months ago

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

So I could take my antique 8 MP 20D but not my very modern 16 MP GH3 which has much better image quality, far superior high ISO performance, and vastly better AF (and MF). How incredibly ignorant.

Yes, sure, since your antique 20D is a medium or large format camera. "How incredibly ignorant"

I think this topic illustrates the reason for that requirement. The workshop is for the people that have some basic of photography and did not just migrate from iphone. If you and all the others responding to the thread do not know what is medium or large format camera then it's not even worth going the route of explaining how different is the process taking pictures with you "very modern" point and shot Gh3 vs medium format camera.

The tour did not require medium or large FORMAT, but rather medium or large CAMERA. Clearly they were limiting entry to those using DSLRs rather than field cameras. The GH3 is no more a point and shoot than a Nikon D4.

Really?

http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php

"SLR camera (medium or large format) required"

Out of curiosity, can you please post as some examples of an SLR (medium or large format).

I think that would be a very, very, quiet tour.

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Martin.au
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to genesys9, 5 months ago

It may be worth posting an email to the tour group, with a better system, if we can think of one, because this problem is only going to get sillier and sillier.

eg: E-M1 allowed, but GX7 not allowed.

A7 not allowed, but Canon 20D allowed.

Fuji XT1 allowed, but Fuxi X-E2 not allowed.

etc.

(Not based on a literal reading of the rules, but just on "embiggeness" and "not a real camera-ness".

I would have thought just ditching the camera requirement, and requiring people to have tripods would be a good start.

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edspen
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to Martin.au, 5 months ago

AS of now, the supreme court has not decided on the Kenrock equipment ruling. But he will be allowed to dispense proceeds from tour fees to all of congress, providing they can stand together forming a human tripod !

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amtberg
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Re: RTFM - medium or large format!
In reply to arbuz, 5 months ago

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

arbuz wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

PC Wheeler wrote:

Well, I just looked up the tour details http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php and it says

"Photographer's pass is 2 hours in duration. One photo pass for each individual with the required equipment. You can purchase the pass at the booth. The REQUIRED equipment are a SLR camera, medium or large format WITH a tripod. No guide is provided for the photographer, but a Canyon Monitor will check on you periodically for questions or assistant.

Things to bring:

• SLR camera (medium or large format) required
• Extra film or memory cards.
• Batteries
• Tripod required
• Plastic bag (for windy days to protect camera or lens)"

Seems a bit stupid, but an m4/3 is not an SLR (bolding is theirs, not mine).

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Phil

So just take a tripod and any old DSLR (smaller the better....old Pentax APSC fit the bill or better still a film SLR like a Spotmatic) AND your other camera.

How did you get 7 supporting votes for you ignorant post?

Do you know what medium or large format is? it is not APS-C and it is not 35mm. it's bigger.

You should actually take a minute to read the original post before you climb on your high smart a$$ horse. The tour requirement was for medium or large CAMERA -- not medium or large FORMAT. Apparently their purpose was to limit the tour to "serious" photographers who they assumed would be using DSLRs.

Edit: if you go to the Ken Tour website they actually specify "SLR (medium or large format)". I think they mean APS-C or full frame rather than medium or large format film/sensor size, since AFAIK there's actually no such thing as a large format SLR. Also they would be limiting their audience to a very small group indeed.

Your thinking confirms all I have written. There is an organized photo tour which asks for, wait for it,

"SLR camera (medium or large format) required"

while you keep saying it's about APS-C or FF. No large format SLR? LOL.

Of course the problem with your theory, aside from it being completely unrealistic, is that people were apparently allowed to take the tour using ordinary DSLRs.

Large format SLRs?  LOL

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amtberg
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to arbuz, 5 months ago

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

So I could take my antique 8 MP 20D but not my very modern 16 MP GH3 which has much better image quality, far superior high ISO performance, and vastly better AF (and MF). How incredibly ignorant.

Yes, sure, since your antique 20D is a medium or large format camera. "How incredibly ignorant"

I think this topic illustrates the reason for that requirement. The workshop is for the people that have some basic of photography and did not just migrate from iphone. If you and all the others responding to the thread do not know what is medium or large format camera then it's not even worth going the route of explaining how different is the process taking pictures with you "very modern" point and shot Gh3 vs medium format camera.

The tour did not require medium or large FORMAT, but rather medium or large CAMERA. Clearly they were limiting entry to those using DSLRs rather than field cameras. The GH3 is no more a point and shoot than a Nikon D4.

Really?

http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php

"SLR camera (medium or large format) required"

Yes, I already pointed that out.  Now since you're so good at Googling, go find the many pics taken on the tour showing members of the group carrying regular-old ordinary DSLRs!

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neil holmes
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to Martin.au, 5 months ago

Martin.au wrote:

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

arbuz wrote:

amtberg wrote:

So I could take my antique 8 MP 20D but not my very modern 16 MP GH3 which has much better image quality, far superior high ISO performance, and vastly better AF (and MF). How incredibly ignorant.

Yes, sure, since your antique 20D is a medium or large format camera. "How incredibly ignorant"

I think this topic illustrates the reason for that requirement. The workshop is for the people that have some basic of photography and did not just migrate from iphone. If you and all the others responding to the thread do not know what is medium or large format camera then it's not even worth going the route of explaining how different is the process taking pictures with you "very modern" point and shot Gh3 vs medium format camera.

The tour did not require medium or large FORMAT, but rather medium or large CAMERA. Clearly they were limiting entry to those using DSLRs rather than field cameras. The GH3 is no more a point and shoot than a Nikon D4.

Really?

http://www.lowerantelope.com/aboutTheTour.php

"SLR camera (medium or large format) required"

Out of curiosity, can you please post as some examples of an SLR (medium or large format).

I think that would be a very, very, quiet tour.

There are actually lots of medium format DSLRs and film SLRs ....I don't know of ANY large format ones.    Pentax makes a 645 DSLR and made film ones before that as well as 6x7 SLRs

Thing is that it seems they allow in APSC DSLRs at least and medium format cameras that are NOT (EG Mamiya 7).

I have sent an email asking for clarification....really curious about this and why.

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Martin.au
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to neil holmes, 5 months ago

Well, the Pentax 645 and the Leica were the only two that sprang to my mind. That would be a quiet tour.

I have no idea about film ones though.

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SirSeth
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Re: yeah, I've seen enough
In reply to Eamon Hickey, 5 months ago

Eamon Hickey wrote:

XPro10 wrote:

Antelope Canyon and nearby "the Wave" have become cliche if you ask me. How many more millions of shots does the world need of these?

Yeah, I don't typically bemoan photographic cliches -- there's just too many and I'm a serial offender myself -- but, well, I'm inspired today. I've seen as many Antelope Canyon pictures as I ever need to in 5 lifetimes. And I haven't seen one in 20 years that looked any different from the first ones I saw back in the 1980s.

Have you seen any beams of light from Antelope Canyon made to look like an alien abduction with a person being sucked up a shaft of light? Now that's a shot I want to take. I could put a tag line on the shot that said "that's what you get for using a mirrorless camera."

Best,

Seth

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dismalhiker
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to Martin.au, 5 months ago
Out of curiosity, can you please post as some examples of an SLR (medium or large format).

I think that would be a very, very, quiet tour.

Mamiya RZ67, medium format SLR

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dv312
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Done that
In reply to genesys9, 5 months ago

Last time I took a tour of Lower Antelope with a different tour and they did not require DSLR or MF

I took with me the lowly GF1 + 20mm lens and that's all I had at the time

One the second trip I took the EP3 + many lenses, no issues whatsoever

I hear your frustration

Funny rules I know but we ought to follow their rules

After all they own the place, not us

Hope you'd come back for a real treat next time

Best wishes

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Michael Meissner
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Re: Then there is my steampunk approach
In reply to Ulric, 5 months ago

Ulric wrote:

You should put a camera in a cuckoo clock.

Interesting.  I have several other hacks I want to do first.  But maybe someday you will see it.  The one that that might be appropriate for is the Stylus1, and you use the auto open lens behind the clock face.

Lately, I've been trying to reduce the weight, and moving from an E-5, and building out of 1/2 - 3/4" oak to using the Pens and cigar boxes.

One thing that I want to fix is I find I spend more time having my picture taken and not as much time actually taking pictures, so I need to be able to streamline zooming the lens and positioning the camera.

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gregbartgis
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to Martin.au, 5 months ago

One of the best examples of large format SLR was the Graflex which was produced by Folmer and Schwing and later became Graflex, This company was best known for the Speed Graphic line of " hand and stand" cameras familiar to many of us here. The Graflex operTed as a true single lens reflex with focal plane shutter. These came in 3 1/4x4 1/4, 4x5 and 5x7" formats. The RB Series had revolving backs. All were used waist level with a dark " boot" which was edged with "fur" for light sealing and photographer comfort. The RB Series D and the RB Super D were last and best of the type last produced about 1954. The Super D was semi automatic having a coupled diaghragm which would reset the preset aperture after rewiding the shutter. I've had the pleasure of owning and using one of the Series D graflexes handheld taking street shots in the early '80's. Lovely instruments!
--

The elimination of the mirror has introduced a new concept into the interchangeable lens digital camera market - compactness (kind of like what happened when Oscar Barnack created the Leica).

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Michael Meissner
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Re: Love it, love it, love it Michael!
In reply to Hen3ry, 5 months ago

Hen3ry wrote:

You are a total whacko in the best possible way. I would never do what you have done but absolutely love it and what it says about your approach to life!

Thanks.  The original motivation was to disguise the camera.  My wife and I attend various renaissance faires (mostly local to New England, but we usually travel to one or more out of state).  When I'm an official photographer, the camera is being used all of the time, so it doesn't matter whether I disguise it.  But when I go as a patron, I do at times want to hide the camera.  I originally though of embedding it in a stuffed animal mascot, but I could never find the right shape.

Then I got started reading the various classic mystery writers from the 1930's (Agatha Christie, Dorthy Sayers) and the image of the 1930's news photographer sprung to mind.  Now, I had done darkroom work in high school, and I really didn't want to go back to waiting for the film to be developed (for various reasons, doing my own developing is out).  So since I was thinking of disguising my camera, it was natural to think of disguising it as a bellows film camera.

What a solution! LOL!

Gawd, here's a thought -- maybe I should be carving out a coconut for my G6!

Go for it.  Bear in mind, unless you are lucky or skilled, the first few won't turn out, so don't get discouraged early.  In the 4 years I've been doing it, I've gone through several redesigns.  In 2012, I gave a talk of the history and various mods I've done to the camera: Steampunk camera talk

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Joerg V
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His tour, his rules
In reply to genesys9, 5 months ago

So what is the deal?

No matter how reasonable/stupid his rules are, they should have been clear to you in the first place.

This seems to be once again one of those "4/3 as good as dslr" rants in disguise.

Anyway, I hope you found another tour that does not impose that restriction on you.

Cheers

Joerg

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MatsP
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Re: His tour, his rules
In reply to Joerg V, 5 months ago

So what is the deal?

No matter how reasonable/stupid his rules are, they should have been clear to you in the first place.

This seems to be once again one of those "4/3 as good as dslr" rants in disguise.

Anyway, I hope you found another tour that does not impose that restriction on you.

Cheers

Joerg

Yes if it's just a tour the organiser is free to have whatever requirements he/she wants. I got the impression from the OP that these were restrictions for just visiting the area and that sounded ridiculous to me.

Do the Navajos really own the land, as a tribe, or nation? That's interesting, in my country the Same people don't own any land as a tribe (they can own land as any private person can do of course) but they have exclusive right to keep reindeers in the whole Sapmi area, which is the northern half of my country, whoever happen to own the land (the mountain areas are owned generally by the state, the forests mainly by big companies but also farmers). And all land is free for everybody to visit, pick berrys or mushrooms, put up a tent for a few nights as long as you keep away from private houses.. And you can take photographs.

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AlbertInFrance
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to Vector12, 5 months ago

Vector12 wrote:

Your comment got me interested, and a brief search suggests that there aren't any large format SLRs.

...

I used to own a 1/4 plate (3.25 x 4.25 inch negs) SLR that qualifies as large format. Took it camping up Snowden (Wales's tallest mountain) once.

I've seen a couple of half plate ones in my time, too.

In principle you could mount a Leaf or similar back on one of those.

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Most people are more interested in the picture than the image.

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photohounds
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to genesys9, 5 months ago

He's just out to FURTHER damage his credibility - wish granted.

35mm is NOT EVEN medium format. 35mm is MINIATURE FORMAT. Who says that? HISTORY DOES ...

Compare the sharpness/grain and every important IQ measure of the 35mm FLOGGING RB-67 medium format camera with what the EM-5 can easily manage.
In those IQ areas it clearly surpassses the RB-67 and it EASILY flogs ANY 35mm camera at any price.   I've used BOTH and 35mm had NO hope of competing with an RB67 for IQ, except in the mind of an advertising copywriter.

Maybe 8 hour exposures could still use improvement, but even super contrasty light can be handled with an EM-x. (n I do not consider having almost the entire frame OOF as important.   'Fast' became popular as fast lenses were needed to cope with 400ASA+ film being decidedly low resolution and fast lenses became used for, effects.
All 35mm f/1.2 lenses I've seen results from are extremely soft wide open.

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ludwik123
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Re: m4/3 not allowed on Lower Antelope Canyon photo tour
In reply to genesys9, 5 months ago

Has anyone considered contacting the lowerantelope tours organisers directly and asking them to clarify the photo equipment requirement.  And if possible replacing it with a more up to date and more flexible one.

Some of these posts on this thread are just plain silly!

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D200_4me
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Gordon Laing too
In reply to genesys9, 5 months ago

He mentioned this happened to him too with a Panasonic m4/3 camera. I think what is being discussed here is the PRIVATE photography tour...the more expensive and limited tour. You can however take your point and shoot or iPhone and snap all you want on one of the more crowded general tours. I took the crowded tour with my D600 last year, but there was no rules on what camera could or couldn't be used on that particular tour. But sure, it was very crowded and nearly impossible to get some shots with no people.

I did manage to get a few no-people shots though. Not many...and I had very limited time...point, shoot and move on. Quickly.

http://www.openbloom.com/VACATION-AND-SHORT-TRIPS/PARKS/Grand-Canyon/

Oh and by the way, they (the Navajo) charged us PER person to park in their lot....not a fee for the car, but a per person parking fee (me, wife and 8 year old son).  Oh well....if you want to see it, they control it.  They're not the most flexible crowd to deal with.  They know they'll have a steady stream of people willing to pay to enter.  I saw lots of foreign tourists during my visit.

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