Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
brecklundin
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In reply to DarylK, 8 months ago

DarylK wrote:

I've already bought beach front property in Nebraska, thank you .

Me too!!  Omaha Shoals Sport Fishing Boutique Spa & Resort...maybe we'll be neighbors by next year the way the quakes are hitting out here on the left coast.  I'll kayak into town the day after.

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brecklundin
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to ozdean, 8 months ago

ozdean wrote:

Z has created quite a storm - but nobody's scared.

Hey speak for yer'selfie mister-man!!  I'm for one am very scared, cuz I might have to go into organ harvesting to buy into it, and I am seriously considering that as a new career path just to get a "Z"....

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HozicEmir
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 8 months ago

Zvonimir our ppl have word for that:

...ne laje kuja zbog sela nego zbog sebe...

In free translation something like that guard dog barking because his own fear and not to defend village.

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ozdean
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to brecklundin, 8 months ago

LOL - half the price of anything else though!

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JamieTux
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Petroglyph, 8 months ago

Petroglyph wrote:

If Ricoh would drop the price to around 4000$ and Convince Samyang to offer, say, a 28 f/2, 58 f/2, and 98 f/2.8 Macro that might get some attention. Now most realize the camera at 10000 and new 28mm (also very expensive), it is just too far out of reach for serious consideration. This is probably why Nikon wouldn't care.

Cheers.

How much is the Leica with the same sensor? Or the hassleblad or Phase competition? What are their autofocus modules like? What's the weather sealing like on those cameras?

I think that the Pentax 645D offers great value actually, I am looking at adding MF this year and the Pentax would probably be front runner for what I want even if they were all the same price.

As you mentioned in another post, the possibility of what Sony might do is putting the breaks on making a decision :). The downside for them is no legacy lenses and no MF history to fall back on, maybe they could get Zeiss to do them with all of their 'blad and Contax experience but they would not be cheap!

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emem
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 8 months ago

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

DAVID MANZE wrote:

Looks like a great site for hyper cynics!

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Dave's clichés

Or maybe DPR is great for those who have no sense of humour?

Nope - but it is a site of childish "camera-centric" tongue in cheek nothingness. As they say - simple things .......

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fakuryu
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Unexpresivecanvas, 8 months ago

Unexpresivecanvas wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

viking79 wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

If Ricoh would drop the price to around 4000$ and Convince Samyang to offer, say, a 28 f/2, 58 f/2, and 98 f/2.8 Macro that might get some attention. Now most realize the camera at 10000 and new 28mm (also very expensive), it is just too far out of reach for serious consideration. This is probably why Nikon wouldn't care.

Cheers.

If Ricoh would just hand me a $1000 check I would be happy too. I am sure Ricoh would lose at least that much selling 645Z cameras for $4000. Why would Ricoh have any interest in convincing Samyang to make lenses for them and lose any profit off their lenses?

It is only too far out of reach for some buyers, there are many (their market) that wouldn't think twice about spending $30k on a system, that is a deal next to some of the other medium format cameras.

Eric

You've outlined the status quo profile for this camera. And made my point about why Nikon don't care.

There is a lot more under the surface than what most people tend to see (or want to see).

One big, big advantage of Nikon (and also Canon) is that owning lenses from them is almost like having money in the bank. They don't depreciate as much and is very easy to sell or trade for a very good residual value. The same logic applies when a photogrpaher wants to buy used lenses instead of new ones. There is plenty from where to choose when it comes to lenses in the used market.

I am sitting here on 9 Pentax lenses, trying to sell them for one year. I have reduced the price of them severely and no takers! It is kind of frustrating. The only two lenses I was able to sell were the Pentax 'A' 28mm F2.8 and the fisheye 10-17mm. I am listing the 55-200mm zoom for $70 and still no leads. Simply amazing!

Amazing indeed!

Now, let's talk about flash technology and flash systems and Nikon has the huge advantage, even compared to Canon.

Nobody can deny how good Nikon's flash system is but there are also a lot of people that does prefer manual flashes

Now, let's consider auto focus technology and image processing engines and again, Canon and nikon are on the lead.

Really now? The only cameras in where AF has a huge advantage is their flagship DSLRs, the new K3 is not just on par but could be better, it is just the current lens lineup that is holding it back because of the SDM, so far no issues with HSM, DC or screw motor. AF speed means nothing if it is not accurate which is the problem of some Canon cameras (5DIII I'm looking at you). Even the K5II has a faster and more accurate than most Canikon cameras including the D300s and the 7D that still has a better AF than the newer ones. Please tell me of any APSC DSLR cameras from Canikon that can AF in the dark quickly and accurately.

Also consider technical support. With the professional support program from both nikon and canon, it is easy to get replacements when the cameras are serviced.

Please tell me how easy it is for Nikon users to get their cameras serviced from non Nikon service centers in the US.

Any person who knows about professional photography must know these facts. Also marketing image of the two leading brands is hard to beat.

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brecklundin
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to ozdean, 8 months ago

yup, the price might seem high to a lot of us but it's a very reasonable cost of entry, even if you grab the original 645D used.  Ton's for 645-A glass out there as well at very reasonable prices and one can always rent the 25mm when really needing wide angle.

I got to use a 654d for a few months and it felt so nice to be shooting a large format again.  Client canceled project so did not buy into it and that was what I felt bummed about, not the contract going *poof* but not being able to use it to buy the whole kit.  What might have been...

Well back to setting up my org chart for my organ harv....errrrr....donation non-profit.  Wanna sit on the BOD?  

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kriztian
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 8 months ago

I disagrre, If I had the money I would buy the new 645 Z because its a lot cheaper then hasselblad and mamiya but has the same quality. I loved to make landscpepics and citypics with taht camera (and also porttraits.)

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jonny1976
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 8 months ago

those who have used the original 645d and d800 knows exactly the difference between cameras. the new camera will simply make this difference bigger.

i have the 645d and many lenses and i will never trade it not even for three d800.

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

More info about the Z on the New Camera News, the Onion of the camera news websites:

http://newcameranews.com/2014/04/02/ricoh-pentax-gets-ready-to-disappoint-once-again/

The article starts with following:

“Ricoh Pentax, the saddest of all active camera makers, is teasing a successor to the long-in-the-tooth, one tripod foot in the grave medium format 645D. Launched in 1 B.I. (Before Instagram), the 645D is like a dinosaur at your local natural history museum — cool to look at but you don’t want to take it home … “

While many news sites are trying to understand the 645Z, which is an unfathomable concept to even 99% of the Pentax K-mount users, it seems that marketing department at Nikon is already working and delivering usually good job.

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Madamina, il catalogo è questo; Delle belle che amò il padron mio; un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io; Osservate, leggete con me.

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ì

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Bob Corson
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 8 months ago

Zvonimir Tosic wrote:

More info about the Z on the New Camera News, the Onion of the camera news websites:

http://newcameranews.com/2014/04/02/ricoh-pentax-gets-ready-to-disappoint-once-again/

The article starts with following:

“Ricoh Pentax, the saddest of all active camera makers, is teasing a successor to the long-in-the-tooth, one tripod foot in the grave medium format 645D. Launched in 1 B.I. (Before Instagram), the 645D is like a dinosaur at your local natural history museum — cool to look at but you don’t want to take it home … “

While many news sites are trying to understand the 645Z, which is an unfathomable concept to even 99% of the Pentax K-mount users, it seems that marketing department at Nikon is already working and delivering usually good job.

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Madamina, il catalogo è questo; Delle belle che amò il padron mio; un catalogo egli è che ho fatt'io; Osservate, leggete con me.

and if Nikon is not "afraid" why would they waste time and money targeting a mystery product from an unworthy competitor?! Not like them to target any specific brand/model.

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soheil
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Bob Corson, 8 months ago

bI don't believe such an add exists, it's a joke created by the same people who've changed the Pentax add in the original page.

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Bob Corson
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to soheil, 8 months ago

soheil wrote:

bI don't believe such an add exists, it's a joke created by the same people who've changed the Pentax add in the original page.

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Soheil
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It's the singer not the song.

totally agree . . .as I said have never seen Nikon go directly at a acompetitor neve mind a specific model.

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waxwaine
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 8 months ago

And even no mention DPR front page of the countdown release. Not as Sony irrelevant advice that they´d be planning do launch a posible future firmware update.

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Petroglyph
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to JamieTux, 8 months ago

JamieTux wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

If Ricoh would drop the price to around 4000$ and Convince Samyang to offer, say, a 28 f/2, 58 f/2, and 98 f/2.8 Macro that might get some attention. Now most realize the camera at 10000 and new 28mm (also very expensive), it is just too far out of reach for serious consideration. This is probably why Nikon wouldn't care.

Cheers.

How much is the Leica with the same sensor? Or the hassleblad or Phase competition? What are their autofocus modules like? What's the weather sealing like on those cameras?

No disagreement there - I'd consider it a great value as well. The thread seems more about if Pentax can sell 1 645D-II for every 1000 D800s Nikon sells. My point was just the role of pricing in marketing. Ricoh might even make more money selling the cameras at a loss (since the sensor is now CMOS price can come down over time) and make money on lenses.

I think that the Pentax 645D offers great value actually, I am looking at adding MF this year and the Pentax would probably be front runner for what I want even if they were all the same price.

Many will.

As you mentioned in another post, the possibility of what Sony might do is putting the breaks on making a decision :). The downside for them is no legacy lenses and no MF history to fall back on,

Never stopped them before.

maybe they could get Zeiss to do them with all of their 'blad and Contax experience but they would not be cheap!

Now they are coming out with curved sensor technology. This is very interesting. We had a thread here a while back where some bright forum member suggested that. Keep your eye on Sony!

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Petroglyph
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Bob Corson, 8 months ago

Bob Corson wrote:

soheil wrote:

bI don't believe such an add exists, it's a joke created by the same people who've changed the Pentax add in the original page.

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Soheil
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It's the singer not the song.

totally agree . . .as I said have never seen Nikon go directly at a acompetitor neve mind a specific model.

Didn't they just sue Sigma and the Kodak start-up in separate lawsuits?  That's what I call "going directly at".

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Bob Corson
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Petroglyph, 8 months ago

Petroglyph wrote:

Bob Corson wrote:

soheil wrote:

bI don't believe such an add exists, it's a joke created by the same people who've changed the Pentax add in the original page.

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Regards,
Soheil
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It's the singer not the song.

totally agree . . .as I said have never seen Nikon go directly at a acompetitor neve mind a specific model.

Didn't they just sue Sigma and the Kodak start-up in separate lawsuits? That's what I call "going directly at".

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Bob Corson
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lawsuit is quite different then an ad campaign especially if, and I think they were, patent infringements.

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Bmoon
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Petroglyph, 8 months ago

Petroglyph wrote:

JamieTux wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

If Ricoh would drop the price to around 4000$ and Convince Samyang to offer, say, a 28 f/2, 58 f/2, and 98 f/2.8 Macro that might get some attention. Now most realize the camera at 10000 and new 28mm (also very expensive), it is just too far out of reach for serious consideration. This is probably why Nikon wouldn't care.

Cheers.

How much is the Leica with the same sensor? Or the hassleblad or Phase competition? What are their autofocus modules like? What's the weather sealing like on those cameras?

No disagreement there - I'd consider it a great value as well. The thread seems more about if Pentax can sell 1 645D-II for every 1000 D800s Nikon sells. My point was just the role of pricing in marketing. Ricoh might even make more money selling the cameras at a loss (since the sensor is now CMOS price can come down over time) and make money on lenses.

I think that the Pentax 645D offers great value actually, I am looking at adding MF this year and the Pentax would probably be front runner for what I want even if they were all the same price.

Many will.

As you mentioned in another post, the possibility of what Sony might do is putting the breaks on making a decision :). The downside for them is no legacy lenses and no MF history to fall back on,

Never stopped them before.

maybe they could get Zeiss to do them with all of their 'blad and Contax experience but they would not be cheap!

Now they are coming out with curved sensor technology. This is very interesting. We had a thread here a while back where some bright forum member suggested that. Keep your eye on Sony!

If the 645 Z sensor has the same level of technology as the current sensors the gain over the D800 would only be 1.6 (diagonal) to 1.49 (horizontal) times more light gathering depending on how you crop the image. Sure the image will have more resolution but as far as noise 645 at iso 160 will look like the D800 at iso 100 something that is not too ground breaking for the cost of going 645, now if it was a full 645 now you have my attention. Also the dof control with a cropped 645 again you are only dealing with a factor of 1.3 to 1.22 shallower dof for the same F 1.4 so again that is not earth shattering. If low light is your thing FF with  F1.4 and F1.8 lens stil given you better low light gathering ability as I see no F1.8 645 lenses in production that would directly compete with the faster FF lenses

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Bmoon
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Bmoon, 8 months ago

Bmoon wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

JamieTux wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

If Ricoh would drop the price to around 4000$ and Convince Samyang to offer, say, a 28 f/2, 58 f/2, and 98 f/2.8 Macro that might get some attention. Now most realize the camera at 10000 and new 28mm (also very expensive), it is just too far out of reach for serious consideration. This is probably why Nikon wouldn't care.

Cheers.

How much is the Leica with the same sensor? Or the hassleblad or Phase competition? What are their autofocus modules like? What's the weather sealing like on those cameras?

No disagreement there - I'd consider it a great value as well. The thread seems more about if Pentax can sell 1 645D-II for every 1000 D800s Nikon sells. My point was just the role of pricing in marketing. Ricoh might even make more money selling the cameras at a loss (since the sensor is now CMOS price can come down over time) and make money on lenses.

I think that the Pentax 645D offers great value actually, I am looking at adding MF this year and the Pentax would probably be front runner for what I want even if they were all the same price.

Many will.

As you mentioned in another post, the possibility of what Sony might do is putting the breaks on making a decision :). The downside for them is no legacy lenses and no MF history to fall back on,

Never stopped them before.

maybe they could get Zeiss to do them with all of their 'blad and Contax experience but they would not be cheap!

Now they are coming out with curved sensor technology. This is very interesting. We had a thread here a while back where some bright forum member suggested that. Keep your eye on Sony!

If the 645 Z sensor has the same level of technology as the current sensors the gain over the D800 would only be 1.6 (diagonal) to 1.49 (horizontal) times more light gathering depending on how you crop the image. Sure the image will have more resolution but as far as noise 645 at iso 160 will look like the D800 at iso 100 something that is not too ground breaking for the cost of going 645, now if it was a full 645 now you have my attention. Also the dof control with a cropped 645 again you are only dealing with a factor of 1.3 to 1.22 shallower dof for the same F 1.4 so again that is not earth shattering. If low light is your thing FF with F1.4 and F1.8 lens stil given you better low light gathering ability as I see no F1.8 645 lenses in production that would directly compete with the faster FF lenses

The more I look at it the difference between cropped 645 and FF I see its  smaller than the difference between 4/3 and aspc

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JamieTux
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Re: Nikon is not afraid of the 645 Z
In reply to Petroglyph, 8 months ago

Petroglyph wrote:

JamieTux wrote:

Petroglyph wrote:

If Ricoh would drop the price to around 4000$ and Convince Samyang to offer, say, a 28 f/2, 58 f/2, and 98 f/2.8 Macro that might get some attention. Now most realize the camera at 10000 and new 28mm (also very expensive), it is just too far out of reach for serious consideration. This is probably why Nikon wouldn't care.

Cheers.

How much is the Leica with the same sensor? Or the hassleblad or Phase competition? What are their autofocus modules like? What's the weather sealing like on those cameras?

No disagreement there - I'd consider it a great value as well. The thread seems more about if Pentax can sell 1 645D-II for every 1000 D800s Nikon sells. My point was just the role of pricing in marketing. Ricoh might even make more money selling the cameras at a loss (since the sensor is now CMOS price can come down over time) and make money on lenses.

Or they might sell more units by having a higher price and making it more exclusive and desirable
I couldn't say for sure that this is what Leica have done overall - but they definitely have with the special/limited editions of the M series!
But yes loss leaders (PS3 at a loss with money on the software) could work too - it will be interesting to see if they try either approach or keep the traditional Pentax perception of great value for quality kit.

I think that the Pentax 645D offers great value actually, I am looking at adding MF this year and the Pentax would probably be front runner for what I want even if they were all the same price.

Many will.

As you mentioned in another post, the possibility of what Sony might do is putting the breaks on making a decision :). The downside for them is no legacy lenses and no MF history to fall back on,

Never stopped them before.

No, you have to start somewhere!

maybe they could get Zeiss to do them with all of their 'blad and Contax experience but they would not be cheap!

Now they are coming out with curved sensor technology. This is very interesting. We had a thread here a while back where some bright forum member suggested that. Keep your eye on Sony!

My father was speaking to me about the benefits of a curbed sensor when I had a Nikon D70 (and it was new LOL)  I told him that they would need to find a way to produce them accurately enough and cheaply enough, maybe the time is now?  I've not seen anything to comment though
These are interesting times to love photography

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