Inconsistent aperture rings

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
Peter Jonas
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to ken224, 4 months ago

ken224 wrote:

Peter Jonas wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

It may be.

But none of the scales are true for any intermediate focal lenghts.

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Cheers,
Peter Jonas

Not necessarily. See my other post on how Leica solved the problem. Nikon's way sounds clunky in comparison...

I have just read your other post and I am not convinced of the merits of the system you describe.

I'd much rather have an unmarked ring and get the accurate aperture info in the viewfinder at all times.

I do not believe that the unmarked aperture ring is a sign of lack of commitment on Fuji's part to the X system.

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Cheers,
Peter Jonas

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jfw
jfw
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to ken224, 4 months ago

ken224 wrote:

I agree with you 100%. This inconsistency (along with the light leaks of the first X-T1 batch) is the main reason I am still sitting on the sidelines undecided whether to buy into the Fuji X system or not.

The memory of Panasonic 4/3 with their Leica lenses is still raw. Some years ago I bought into the system stupidly believing that Panasonic would continue with the lens line, only to see the aperture ring unceremoniously dumped and the lenses replaced by unremarkable plastic toys.

Changing systems is not cheap. Ask me how I know...

Now I am simply not convinced Fujifilm will not pull a similar trick in the future. Their current behaviour does not inspire confidence.

As for the variable aperture argument: it does not hold water. Leica 4/3 zooms had this sorted in a simple and elegant way: When the aperture on the ring is set anywhere from f/3.5 to 16, the same value is displayed in the LCD. If the value on the ring is set to f/2.8, the displayed value varies from 2.8 to 3.5, depending on the focal length chosen (at wide angle the displayed value matches the value on the ring, while at tele, the displayed value is changed to f/3.5). The discrepancy only occurs at the fully open end of the aperture scale. One click up from f/2.8 and there is no difference between the ring and the display.

What does hold water is simply the cost argument (and possibly testing of the water for customer response to possible future design simplification).

To Fujifilm (if they are reading this forum): You have chosen to own this market (along with Leica which is of little consequence to most of us) and you made many customers happy. Some display of commitment would probably go a long way to increasing your share of this market.

Ken re: "The discrepancy only occurs at the fully open end of the aperture scale."

Perhaps we just see the world slightly differently (which is ok by me), but IMHO a good solution is one that does not allow any discrepancies between the aperture-ring setting and the actual aperture.  So I can't agree with you that the above-described solution is "elegant" (assuming I've read your post correctly that is).

Cheers

jfw

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wyldberi
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

Having no marked aperture ring at 10-24 is really a bad design and I think people should complain and report to Fuji.

Perhaps people should go on strike and refuse to buy this worthless lens that it too difficult to use in the real world, where real lens rings are clearly marked.

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wyldberi
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to nixda, 4 months ago

Would I rather have a variable aperture "fly by wire" lens with an aperture ring that shows what the aperture setting happens to be -- maybe, depending on where the focal length happens to be? Or would I rather have that same zoom lens report what the actual aperture setting is and show it to me in the viewfinders?

Now, that's a real difficult design decision to make, isn't it?

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Dorkington
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

Fujifilm has heard the complaints. The next two zooms will have aperture rings.

In the meantime, either get new lenses, or find a system that suits your tastes.

 Dorkington's gear list:Dorkington's gear list
Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm XF 35mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 23mm F1.4 R Fujifilm XF 56mm F1.2 R +2 more
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ken224
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Dorkington, 4 months ago

Dorkington wrote:

Fujifilm has heard the complaints. The next two zooms will have aperture rings.

In the meantime, either get new lenses, or find a system that suits your tastes.

Quite. Another system.

Leica? Anybody? You can get it in ostrich skin...

 ken224's gear list:ken224's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10 Fujifilm X-T1 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS
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shigzeo ?
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to forpetessake, 4 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

The new Nikon G lenses don't have aperture rings and I haven't seen anybody complaining about that. The older lenses had aperture rings, but they were pretty useless as you have to set it to auto position when using modern cameras, otherwise the camera would not operate. But even in the manual mode you have only two marks for the wide and the long end and have no idea what aperture is for anything in between. So it was all useless and Nikon got rid of the aperture ring altogether.

It may be possible that you haven't used a Nikon digital camera before. It may be possible that you have but got lost in the maze of menus. I have. I only use Ai/S lenses for my Nikon cameras and every one works perfectly. AFD lenses, too, work jsut fine, in both A or manual aperture. You merely have to set the camera to ignore the camera-side aperture dial and use the ring. If the lens itself doesn't have any electronic connection, you just mount it and fire away.

Some cheaper Nikon cameras lack metering capabilities, but most work the exact same way as the Fujifilms do: focus wide open, meter set on the aperture dial, and close down for exposure. The difference of course is that they are coupled and mechanical. You can free lens stopped down or wide open, use the lenses on tubes and extension rings, and do heaps of stuff to your heart's content.

The aperture ring does allow more spots for ingress of water and other foreign elements. That is probably the number one reason Nikon dropped the aperture ring. Well, that and people probably were not using rings much with the dials on the bodies. Also, real mechanical aperture rings cost a bit of money and have to be very accurate. The electronic uncoupled system Fujifilm uses saves weight and is much much less expensive to produce than the Nikon system.

 shigzeo ?'s gear list:shigzeo ?'s gear list
Nikon D200 Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon D800 Sony Alpha 7R Fujifilm X-T1 +6 more
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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to wyldberi, 4 months ago

Thank`s for beeing sarcastic, perhaps your expectations are different than mine but I do expect that lenses developed from one manufactor, for one system and brought out within a very short time to be operationed the same way.

 DocetLector's gear list:DocetLector's gear list
Canon PowerShot G11 Fujifilm FinePix S3 Pro Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF Micro-Nikkor 60mm f/2.8D Tokina AT-X Pro 12-24mm f/4 (IF) DX +1 more
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wyldberi
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

Thank`s for beeing sarcastic, perhaps your expectations are different than mine but I do expect that lenses developed from one manufactor, for one system and brought out within a very short time to be operationed the same way.

Apparently the expectations of Fuji engineers, design team, and management differ from your expectations as well.

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EricWN
Contributing MemberPosts: 992
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to wyldberi, 4 months ago

wyldberi wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

Having no marked aperture ring at 10-24 is really a bad design and I think people should complain and report to Fuji.

Perhaps people should go on strike and refuse to buy this worthless lens that it too difficult to use in the real world, where real lens rings are clearly marked.

Perhaps you should think twice to make sure your posts add anything to the discussion. Making fun of people is surely not the way to go. This is valuable customer feedback for Fuji and just one of these examples where their team misses basic stuff that would make a useful addition to an enthusiast's camera system.

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EricWN
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to wyldberi, 4 months ago

wyldberi wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

Thank`s for beeing sarcastic, perhaps your expectations are different than mine but I do expect that lenses developed from one manufactor, for one system and brought out within a very short time to be operationed the same way.

Apparently the expectations of Fuji engineers, design team, and management differ from your expectations as well.

The reasons for this rather stupid decision we don't know, but it's great to see the fanboys have it all figured out.

Because if something doesn't work or exist on a Fuji system, the entire company probably has a reason for it.

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JFMoore
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Re: Agree 100%
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

I find it very annoying.  One of the attractions of the Fuji X for me is stepping away from menus and displays to direct, mechanical controls.   That they don't mark lenses like the 10-24 tells me there are people at Fuji who just don't get it.  Why else make the XT1 with three big, marked dials on top?  The point is you can look down at the camera, even when it is off, and know your settings.  The point of THAT is so you can have the camera ready to go in a new lighting situation or just after changing lenses, without having to turn it on and look at the freaking screen, or worse, hold it up to your eye to look in the EVF, just to turn it off until you're ready to shoot.

Shooting styles differ.  I like for the exposure to at least be close when I power up and start snapping away.

Hopefully they find the plot before losing their tenuous hold on this admittedly niche market.

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