Inconsistent aperture rings

Started 3 months ago | Discussions
gerard boulanger
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Actually...
In reply to Cartwheels MD, 3 months ago

... the very first 27 mm lens got an aperture ring, but was very difficult to access, this is maybe why Fuji removed it?

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Beat Traveller
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I really don`t understand why Fuxi`s X lenses are so inconsistent about their aperture rings. The aperture has to be selected in 3 different ways let say using 14, 18-55 and 27 mm lens.

I can barely understand the 27mm having no aperture ring but I cannot at all understand why are the rings on 18-55 and 55-200 unmarked! The big advantage of dedicated and marked dials - you can check your setting just with a short glance at your camera from above whitout even switching on the camera!

The 27mm was supposed to be a 'pancake' lens - adding an aperture ring would increase the lens length by about a centimeter.

It is a pain having to check the settings in the camera, but they would have to come up with a really weird design to make it work for the two zooms. Because it's not mechanically coupled it would be particularly difficult.

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ljclark
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The REAL Answer for the Unmarked 10-24 Aperture Ring...
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

It has no markings because there are no stops to the aperture ring.  It just turns and turns -- either direction.  It does click.

This is an internal design decision and I suspect the diaphragm is deeply buried in the lens body and there is no physical connection.  Someone who understands switch logic can probably explain this better than me.

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OdzBodkinz
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

The 18-55 and 55-200 are easy to use too. The ability to see the aperture reported in the viewfinder negates not having markings.

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Jonavin
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Cartwheels MD, 3 months ago

Cartwheels MD wrote:

27 is too small. Zooms are variable aperture.

Doesn't explain 10-24mm/f4. Some of the early prototype shots actually has the 27mm with an aperture ring.

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DocetLector
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Re: The REAL Answer for the Unmarked 10-24 Aperture Ring...
In reply to ljclark, 3 months ago

I don`t see any reason why it can be done at 14 mm lens and not at 10-24.

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forpetessake
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to nixda, 3 months ago

nixda wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

I really don`t understand why Fuxi`s X lenses are so inconsistent about their aperture rings. The aperture has to be selected in 3 different ways let say using 14, 18-55 and 27 mm lens.

I can barely understand the 27mm having no aperture ring but I cannot at all understand why are the rings on 18-55 and 55-200 unmarked! The big advantage of dedicated and marked dials - you can check your setting just with a short glance at your camera from above whitout even switching on the camera!

Fuji is inconsistent, yes. But also, putting aperture markings on variable-aperture zoom lenses requires a special mechanism that would only add cost and bulk to the lenses. It looks like a conscious design decision.

It wouldn't require any mechanical parts, the aperture is controlled by wire in all Fuji lenses.

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forpetessake
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

The new Nikon G lenses don't have aperture rings and I haven't seen anybody complaining about that. The older lenses had aperture rings, but they were pretty useless as you have to set it to auto position when using modern cameras, otherwise the camera would not operate. But even in the manual mode you have only two marks for the wide and the long end and have no idea what aperture is for anything in between. So it was all useless and Nikon got rid of the aperture ring altogether.

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forpetessake
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REAL Answer? Really?
In reply to ljclark, 3 months ago

ljclark wrote:

It has no markings because there are no stops to the aperture ring. It just turns and turns -- either direction. It does click.

This is an internal design decision and I suspect the diaphragm is deeply buried in the lens body and there is no physical connection. Someone who understands switch logic can probably explain this better than me.

All Fuji lenses have aperture by wire, there is no need to have a mechanical connection to the diaphragm.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to forpetessake, 3 months ago

I do have also Nikon G-lenses and I know that Nikon got rid of the aperture rings.

But Fuji has a different philosophy I thought, designing their cameras and lenses the way you can see all the settings without even switching on the camera. And a lot of people like this.

It is just a different workflow and one can preset the camera without looking through the viewfinder. What I am complaining about  that you have to use 3 different ways to set the aperture with Fuji`s X cameras and lenses. I think when Fuji decided to make aperture rings on their lenses like they did with the 3 lenses they launched first they should stick to their decision and not forcing photographers to change their workflow when they use different lenses now.

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Conrad567
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to John Gellings, 3 months ago

John Gellings wrote:

You didn't have to buy them...

What a worthless answer.

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jyhfeei
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Re: The REAL Answer for the Unmarked 10-24 Aperture Ring...
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I don`t see any reason why it can be done at 14 mm lens and not at 10-24.

The 14 mm (or 18, 35, 56, 60) does not have OIS. Perhaps the "A" electrical switch and/or mechanical stop mechanism interferes with the OIS. Perhaps the aperture ring located switch plus OIS adds excess bulk. Perhaps added cost or time to design another aperture ring layout was unacceptable. Whatever the reason, there are very likely engineering and commercial trade offs that may not be desirable.

New "pro" zooms are coming with marked aperture rings. They will likely be very costly and bulky.

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ljclark
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Re: REAL Answer? Really? Really, Really.
In reply to forpetessake, 3 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

ljclark wrote:

It has no markings because there are no stops to the aperture ring. It just turns and turns -- either direction. It does click.

This is an internal design decision and I suspect the diaphragm is deeply buried in the lens body and there is no physical connection. Someone who understands switch logic can probably explain this better than me.

All Fuji lenses have aperture by wire, there is no need to have a mechanical connection to the diaphragm.

You are correct.  The aperture rings are functionally just another command dial.  The difference with the primes is that the lens senses the position of the aperture ring.  With the three Fuji zooms I have, the lens senses movement of the aperture (or faux-perture) ring.  I understand that reasoning for zoom lenses that are not constant aperture.  I don't understand the reasoning for a lens that is constant aperture.

(Doesn't matter right now because my 10-24mm is defective.)

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Peter Jonas
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

Having no marked aperture ring at 10-24 is really a bad design and I think people should complain and report to Fuji.

I do not agree.

All Nikon G series lenses and al Canon EF lenses do not have aperture rings at all.

Having come from a Nikon DSLR I am really used to adjusting aperture via a dial. If that dial is on the lens or on the camera, doesn't make any difference to me.

This is also one of the reasons I am  not all that impressed with the X-T1's dials.

I always check my settings in the EVF.

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Peter Jonas
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to jyhfeei, 3 months ago

jyhfeei wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

Cartwheels MD wrote:

27 is too small. Zooms are variable aperture.

Yes. But the question remains, why are there no aperture markings on the 10-24 f/4 zoom which is a constant aperture lens?

I heard that this was due to cost. The target price for this expensive-to-make lens was $1000 and the fact that this image stabilized zoom lens did not have to be reengineered with a marked aperture ring was a factor.

This is very difficult to believe.

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ken224
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

I agree with you 100%. This inconsistency (along with the light leaks of the first X-T1 batch) is the main reason I am still sitting on the sidelines undecided whether to buy into the Fuji X system or not.

The memory of Panasonic 4/3 with their Leica lenses is still raw. Some years ago I bought into the system stupidly believing that Panasonic would continue with the lens line, only to see the aperture ring unceremoniously dumped and the lenses replaced by unremarkable plastic toys.

Changing systems is not cheap. Ask me how I know...

Now I am simply not convinced Fujifilm will not pull a similar trick in the future. Their current behaviour does not inspire confidence.

As for the variable aperture argument: it does not hold water. Leica 4/3 zooms had this sorted in a simple and elegant way: When the aperture on the ring is set anywhere from f/3.5 to 16, the same value is displayed in the LCD. If the value on the ring is set to f/2.8, the displayed value varies from 2.8 to 3.5, depending on the focal length chosen (at wide angle the displayed value matches the value on the ring, while at tele, the displayed value is changed to f/3.5). The discrepancy only occurs at the fully open end of the aperture scale. One click up from f/2.8 and there is no difference between the ring and the display.

What does hold water is simply the cost argument (and possibly testing of the water for customer response to possible future design simplification).

To Fujifilm (if they are reading this forum): You have chosen to own this market (along with Leica which is of little consequence to most of us) and you made many customers happy. Some display of commitment would probably go a long way to increasing your share of this market.

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Peter Jonas
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

It may be.

But none of the scales are true for any intermediate focal lenghts.

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ken224
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Peter Jonas, 3 months ago

Peter Jonas wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

It may be.

But none of the scales are true for any intermediate focal lenghts.

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Not necessarily. See my other post on how Leica solved the problem. Nikon's way sounds clunky in comparison...

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Peter Jonas
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Re: The REAL Answer for the Unmarked 10-24 Aperture Ring...
In reply to DocetLector, 3 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I don`t see any reason why it can be done at 14 mm lens and not at 10-24.

The advantage of an unmarked aperture ring is that it can be reassigned to any function, and setting the aperture can be reassigned to any dial on the camera.

In my opinion it is a good design decision, although I do acknowledge that there are two competing schools of thought here, and I am in one and you are in the other.

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frank-in-toronto
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to forpetessake, 3 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

The new Nikon G lenses don't have aperture rings and I haven't seen anybody complaining about that. ...

i doubt if any photog at enthusiast level or above is happy about not having an aperture ring.  i'm sure nikon did it to save money.  it makes the lens much less versatile and with nikon's terrible implementation of live view, makes using different apertures in live view (video) a mess.

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