Inconsistent aperture rings

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
DocetLector
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Inconsistent aperture rings
4 months ago

I really don`t understand why Fuxi`s X lenses are so inconsistent about their aperture rings. The aperture has to be selected in 3 different ways let say using 14, 18-55 and 27 mm lens.

I can barely understand the 27mm having no aperture ring but I cannot at all understand why are the rings on 18-55 and 55-200 unmarked! The big advantage of dedicated and marked dials - you can check your setting just with a short glance  at your camera  from above whitout even switching on the camera!

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Cartwheels MD
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

27 is too small. Zooms are variable aperture.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Cartwheels MD, 4 months ago

I still have two variable Nikon Zooms with marked aperture rings and the 27mm with aperture ring would only be about 5 mm longer.

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Clayton1985
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I still have two variable Nikon Zooms with marked aperture rings and the 27mm with aperture ring would only be about 5 mm longer.

Which Nikon zooms are you referring to?

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Al Valentino
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Cartwheels MD, 4 months ago

Cartwheels MD wrote:

27 is too small. Zooms are variable aperture.

Yes. But the question remains, why are there no aperture markings on the 10-24 f/4 zoom which is a constant aperture lens?

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nixda
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I really don`t understand why Fuxi`s X lenses are so inconsistent about their aperture rings. The aperture has to be selected in 3 different ways let say using 14, 18-55 and 27 mm lens.

I can barely understand the 27mm having no aperture ring but I cannot at all understand why are the rings on 18-55 and 55-200 unmarked! The big advantage of dedicated and marked dials - you can check your setting just with a short glance at your camera from above whitout even switching on the camera!

Fuji is inconsistent, yes. But also, putting aperture markings on variable-aperture zoom lenses requires a special mechanism that would only add cost and bulk to the lenses. It looks like a conscious design decision.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Clayton1985, 4 months ago

70-210 f 4-5,6 and 28-85 f 3,5-4,5. Both lenses have a green and a yellow marks for wide and tele end. I have both lenses already for a very long time and they are easy to use.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to nixda, 4 months ago

There is no special mechanism at my two Nikon lenses, just a green mark for wide and a yellow one for tele end. Very easy to use!

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Al Valentino
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

70-210 f 4-5,6 and 28-85 f 3,5-4,5. Both lenses have a green and a yellow marks for wide and tele end. I have both lenses already for a very long time and they are easy to use.

I owned the 70-210 a while back. Not sure if it was the same version. Mine was heavy metal push-pull to zoom. Do not remember about the aperture.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Al Valentino, 4 months ago

Having no marked aperture ring at 10-24 is really a bad design and I think people should complain and report to Fuji.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Al Valentino, 4 months ago

That`s certainly the same lens I own and not remembering the aperture ring is certainly a sign that you did not have a problem with that design.

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jyhfeei
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Al Valentino, 4 months ago

Al Valentino wrote:

Cartwheels MD wrote:

27 is too small. Zooms are variable aperture.

Yes. But the question remains, why are there no aperture markings on the 10-24 f/4 zoom which is a constant aperture lens?

I heard that this was due to cost. The target price for this expensive-to-make lens was $1000 and the fact that this image stabilized zoom lens did not have to be reengineered with a marked aperture ring was a factor.

The high end, constant aperture, weather sealed zooms coming will have reengineered, marked aperture rings. And heftier prices to boot.

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Al Valentino
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to jyhfeei, 4 months ago

jyhfeei wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

Cartwheels MD wrote:

27 is too small. Zooms are variable aperture.

Yes. But the question remains, why are there no aperture markings on the 10-24 f/4 zoom which is a constant aperture lens?

I heard that this was due to cost. The target price for this expensive-to-make lens was $1000 and the fact that this image stabilized zoom lens did not have to be reengineered with a marked aperture ring was a factor.

The high end, constant aperture, weather sealed zooms coming will have reengineered, marked aperture rings. And heftier prices to boot.

I bet you are correct, cost. This is sad as the aperture ring is one of features I love. Also, since Fuji apertures tend to move easily it is easier to notice. I have the 14mm and will stick with that, especially sine it does not need software to correct for the distortions

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km25
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

Bucks. I would rather have fine optic and no apture ring. Also, some people buying the more auto-auto cameras like it simple and do not know an apture ring from a wedding ring.....just want it to work. They will by these lens and be happy that cannot move it off of A.

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DocetLector
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to km25, 4 months ago

I don`t agree with your post. First of all if you are talking about bucks - this lens has an aperture ring - just not marked and second those kind of people you describe are usually not using Fuji X cameras.

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boinkphoto
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

Someone probably said this already, but I assume zooms are unmarked because they're variable aperture and depending on where you're zoomed to changes the actual aperture value. In that case, you're better off looking at the LCD.

That said, no one really worried about that in the old days...

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jfw
jfw
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to DocetLector, 4 months ago

DocetLector wrote:

I don`t agree with your post. First of all if you are talking about bucks - this lens has an aperture ring - just not marked and second those kind of people you describe are usually not using Fuji X cameras.

On the 10-24 constant aperture lens, I agree with you - seems nuts to omit the marks.

On the variable aperture lenses, let's run a quick mental simulation of the lens design that you are thinking of:

In, say, simulation alternative #1, we would be able to mechanically (i) set the lens for max focal length (ii) set the aperture to the widest (lowest f/stop).  The result would be an unsupported aperture for the selected focal length - would you agree?

This would be, it would seem at least as 'confusing' as not having the lens marked.

So under, say, simulation alternative #2, we would have to do something to the simulation #1 design to either (a) prevent the unsupported aperture from being selected in the first place or (b) attempt to change either the focal length or the aperture to reach a supported combination.  (b) would certainly be irritating design alternatve - so I can't see that being a reasonable design approach.  Re: (a) its hard to imagine how this could be done in a way that would work with the lens not-powered-up, unless a mechanical approach was used. And I can certainly see such a mechanical approach costing money and adding weight.

Perhaps there are some errors in my reasoning, or I've not been creative enough to think of a good design alternative.  But, given the above, not marking the aperture ring for a variable aperture lens does seem like the best design alternative among the options.

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photoreddi
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to jfw, 4 months ago

jfw wrote:

DocetLector wrote:

I don`t agree with your post. First of all if you are talking about bucks - this lens has an aperture ring - just not marked and second those kind of people you describe are usually not using Fuji X cameras.

On the 10-24 constant aperture lens, I agree with you - seems nuts to omit the marks.

On the variable aperture lenses, let's run a quick mental simulation of the lens design that you are thinking of:

In, say, simulation alternative #1, we would be able to mechanically (i) set the lens for max focal length (ii) set the aperture to the widest (lowest f/stop). The result would be an unsupported aperture for the selected focal length - would you agree?

This would be, it would seem at least as 'confusing' as not having the lens marked.

So under, say, simulation alternative #2, we would have to do something to the simulation #1 design to either (a) prevent the unsupported aperture from being selected in the first place or (b) attempt to change either the focal length or the aperture to reach a supported combination. (b) would certainly be irritating design alternatve - so I can't see that being a reasonable design approach. Re: (a) its hard to imagine how this could be done in a way that would work with the lens not-powered-up, unless a mechanical approach was used. And I can certainly see such a mechanical approach costing money and adding weight.

Perhaps there are some errors in my reasoning, or I've not been creative enough to think of a good design alternative. But, given the above, not marking the aperture ring for a variable aperture lens does seem like the best design alternative among the options.

Not marking the aperture is becoming more common. Almost all of Nikon's current lenses are "G" lenses, indicating that they have no aperture ring. One of the reasons given is greater integrity, better resistance to moisture and crud entering the lens. This appears to be what Fuji does, except when they have aperture rings, the rings aren't mechanically connected. They're probably connected using magnetic detectors. This allows the lens to remain sealed but since there's no physical contact, there would be no way to know the aperture when the camera was turned on, since the detectors only detect magnet motion. That's why lenses that have true mechanical linkages can only have their aperture rings rotated over a small range before they hit a mechanical stop that prevents the ring from turning outside the aperture range. Fuji's aperture rings have no stops, and you can turn them 15%, 40°, 360° or 900° if you're persistent. The camera only detects the ring's motion, not its absolute position.

With this design, one way to make aperture markings on the ring effective would be to use a menu option to tell the camera what aperture the aperture ring appears to be indicating and then set the camera to match it. This would need to be done each time the camera is powered on unless the aperture detector remained active while the camera was powered off. But this would use more battery power and would add complexity, slow down the use of the camera, make it more likely for erroneous apertures to be unknowingly selected, and subject the camera to ridicule in reviews and by photographers as a Rube Goldberg device, if not a Franken-camera.

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Al Valentino
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to photoreddi, 4 months ago

Having an aperture ring is one of the many charms of the Fuji system. Personally, after using both, I strongly prefer an Aperture ring and the markings if possible. I do look down at my camera and prefer to work the settings without looking into an eyepiece. That is for composition and checking exposure.

It is a niche that Fuji has been using and it is working. I just hope the limit their compromises. In any case, I am set on lenses.

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John Gellings
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Re: Inconsistent aperture rings
In reply to Clayton1985, 4 months ago

You didn't have to buy them...

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