a6000 External Flash?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
osv
osv
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to symbology, 8 months ago

i'm only talking above x-sync speed, because that's what you lose with this flash when it's pointed upwards.

another way to put it is that there is no ttl over 1/160th... hss only kicks in at over 1/160th, i think... different ways of saying the same thing, you can't turn the shutter speed on the camera up any higher, when the flash is pointed upwards.

until odin came along, that is thx for the feedback on that, appreciate it!!

the point that i'm trying to make here is that some platforms allow bounce flash at hss... it works great *with a bounce card mounted on the flash*

bouncing off of a ceiling means delay and too much diffusion, not the same thing as a bounce card.

i shoot race cars outside, in bright sunlight, on the track, at 1/2000-2500th... ideally it's with two flashes on a flash bracket(fill flash), but in general hss allows for a lot more light than most people think it does.

another thing... this sony system allows manual flash power settings in hss mode... i didn't have that with pentax... and there is no pre-flash when you do that, because ttl is turned off... it could be really good for preventing pre-flash blinking when shooting people.

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dan

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symbology
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to Davi7d777, 8 months ago

Davi7d777 wrote:

I pre-ordered the A6000 then the HVL-F20S flash that have already received. I will be doing some closeup work with the SEL30M35 lens where getting the flash off the camera is a must. Found this cheap Vello brand, Sony Alpha flash cord 1-meter coiled adaptor for $20 with hot shoe adaptors at each end and am wondering if anyone here has something to say?

http://www.amazon.com/Vello-TTL-Off-Camera-Flash-Alpha-Series/dp/B0055P3RQO

These kind of cord adaptors are just simple one to one wire connections but are notorious for becoming intermittent. The Sony FA-CC1AM plus FA-CS1M do the same thing for a hundred bucks with no doubt quality contacts.

I hope you ordered the HVL-F20M and not he HVL-F20S.   The "S" model only works on the older NEX cameras before the multi shoe.

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symbology
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to osv, 8 months ago

osv wrote:

i'm only talking above x-sync speed, because that's what you lose with this flash when it's pointed upwards.

another way to put it is that there is no ttl over 1/160th... hss only kicks in at over 1/160th, i think... different ways of saying the same thing, you can't turn the shutter speed on the camera up any higher, when the flash is pointed upwards.

until odin came along, that is thx for the feedback on that, appreciate it!!

the point that i'm trying to make here is that some platforms allow bounce flash at hss... it works great *with a bounce card mounted on the flash*

bouncing off of a ceiling means delay and too much diffusion, not the same thing as a bounce card.

i shoot race cars outside, in bright sunlight, on the track, at 1/2000-2500th... ideally it's with two flashes on a flash bracket(fill flash), but in general hss allows for a lot more light than most people think it does.

another thing... this sony system allows manual flash power settings in hss mode... i didn't have that with pentax... and there is no pre-flash when you do that, because ttl is turned off... it could be really good for preventing pre-flash blinking when shooting people.

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dan

Ah, I understand your point now.

HSS when up and over 1/4000th is where the power really starts to die off.

I love using HSS and TTL with my Odins outdoors.

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osv
osv
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to Davi7d777, 8 months ago

Davi7d777 wrote:

I pre-ordered the A6000 then the HVL-F20S flash that have already received. I will be doing some closeup work with the SEL30M35 lens where getting the flash off the camera is a must. Found this cheap Vello brand, Sony Alpha flash cord 1-meter coiled adaptor for $20 with hot shoe adaptors at each end and am wondering if anyone here has something to say?

http://www.amazon.com/Vello-TTL-Off-Camera-Flash-Alpha-Series/dp/B0055P3RQO

These kind of cord adaptors are just simple one to one wire connections but are notorious for becoming intermittent. The Sony FA-CC1AM plus FA-CS1M do the same thing for a hundred bucks with no doubt quality contacts.

it has the old-style shoe on it, doesn't the a6000 have the new universal hot shoe? Won't you still need an FA-CC1AM to mount that cheap cord on the camera?

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dan

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Davi7d777
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to symbology, 8 months ago

symbology wrote:

...

I hope you ordered the HVL-F20M and not he HVL-F20S. The "S" model only works on the older NEX cameras before the multi shoe.

Thanks Symbology, musch appreciated.

I bought it online at the http://store.sony.com site. On the HVL-F20M page Compatibility tab, the A6000 nor the A5000 are not listed among the compatible cameras. But neither is the HVL-F20S on its Compatibility tab. So what I did was tracked down a blog where it mentioned the HVL-20S as being used. Though now suspect they may have been using an adaptor. And the Specifications page on either says nothing about the nature of the hot shoe. So I had searched around a couple hours trying to size that up and in the end went with info from the one source. There simply was little solid information anywhere though lots of people have been asking questions that seemed to indicate a lack of useful information from the manufacturer. Note the Sony store web pages are one of the most annoying product sites I've every used and this is come from someone in hi tech for decades.

So will send it back and swap with the other model that is the same price.

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KBKB
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to symbology, 8 months ago

symbology wrote:

If you need "all bounce capabilities" your options are limited. If you refuse to use a shoe adapter, your options are limited even further. If all of the above is true, you will need to use the Sony HVL-F43M flash. If you do not mind adapters, you can use the HVL-F43AM, or the HVL-F58AM as they have the same "all bounce capabilities" as the HVL-43M.

I personally do not have an issue using the flash shoe adapter. The Sony adapter is pretty short and works very well.

You did not mention wireless, or remote flash capability. I have been using the Phottix Odin TTL remote triggers and I think they are the best way to go. You can pair them (or the Pixel King TTL triggers) with any older Sony, or Minolta flash as long as it was designed for Digital. All Sony flashes are full digital, while only the Minolta 3600HSD and 5600HSD are. These two minolta flashes are the same as the original Sony flashes (HVL-F36AM, and HVL-F56AM).

You can get a set of remote TTL triggers and an older flash for the same price as the HVL-43M and it will be a much more versatile setup.

I second this recommendation.  I've been using the Phottix Odin triggers and receivers along with HVL-58AM strobes and have been very happy with this combo.

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blue_skies
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to kcamacho11, 8 months ago

kcamacho11 wrote:

I am looking for an external flash (preferably not so large) for my future a6000, that will have all bounce capabilities + TTL. Any good flashes out there that might be compatible and not too pricy?

Thanks!

Simple, get the HVL-F20M, then later on add the HVL-F43M for wireless trigger (TTL) flash.

Get the M versions, not the AM ones.

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Cheers,
Henry

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tn1krr
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to Davi7d777, 8 months ago

Davi7d777 wrote:

symbology wrote:

...

I hope you ordered the HVL-F20M and not he HVL-F20S. The "S" model only works on the older NEX cameras before the multi shoe.

Thanks Symbology, musch appreciated.

I bought it online at the http://store.sony.com site. On the HVL-F20M page Compatibility tab, the A6000 nor the A5000 are not listed among the compatible cameras. But neither is the HVL-F20S on its Compatibility tab. So what I did was tracked down a blog where it mentioned the HVL-20S as being used. Though now suspect they may have been using an adaptor. And the Specifications page on either says nothing about the nature of the hot shoe. So I had searched around a couple hours trying to size that up and in the end went with info from the one source. There simply was little solid information anywhere though lots of people have been asking questions that seemed to indicate a lack of useful information from the manufacturer. Note the Sony store web pages are one of the most annoying product sites I've every used and this is come from someone in hi tech for decades.

So will send it back and swap with the other model that is the same price.

HVL-F20M will fit A6000 perfect without any adapters; a HVL-20AM (old quick lock hotshoe) will fit with a proper adapter. Not sure if you can make HVL-20S to fit at all since it has neither old or new hotshoe, but a proprietary connector only available in (some?) Nex-3 and Nex-5 models.

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tn1krr
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Re: TTL works fine with any bounce
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 8 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I am not sure TTL actually works with bounce. In fact, it wouldn't make sense to do TTL metering for what is indirect lighting.

HSS ofcourse does not either.

TTL is just fine with any bounce. preflash TTL just measures what difference the preflash makes in scene metering, be it bounce or direct and adjusts flash power based on that. I would propably have thousands of inproperly exposed pictures from my Nex-7 if TTL did not work with ceiling/wall bounce as I do not use direct flash at all, I also do not use any diffusers. With my A7R I use manual flash due to TTL preflash delay with that camera.

ADI has no relevance in E Mount cameras, none support it and actually even A99 has dropped ADI support.

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MFiftysomething
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to kcamacho11, 8 months ago

Take a look at Nissin i40 -due to be released for Sony June -nice and compact with bouce

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SQLGuy
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to osv, 8 months ago

osv wrote:

bouncing off of a ceiling means delay

dan

Delay? That must be an awfully high ceiling. Light can travel 20 feet in .02 microseconds... that's 6000 times faster than 1/8000th exposure.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

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Davi7d777
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to symbology, 8 months ago

Completed initiaing the swap with the Sony Customer Service from HVL-F20S to the HVL-F20M. After relating the information about how their Sony Store A6000 website accessory information is inadequate and need some webmaster work, they waved a restocking shipping fee so this swap will not cost anything additional.

One thing explained was the stack up to get the flash to work via a cord is:

A6000
ADPAMA $24.99
FA-CC1AM $49.99
FA-CS1M $59.95
HVL-F20M $149.00

Else could buy the HVL-43M for $400 and directly connect it via the flash port jack.

Will forgo purchasing the above cord prts for now and wait for the flash to come in then verify that works as expected directly on the A6000 hot shoe. Will be interested in knowing about any other cord or wireless solutions between the camera and flash.

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osv
osv
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to SQLGuy, 8 months ago

SQLGuy wrote:

osv wrote:

bouncing off of a ceiling means delay

dan

Delay? That must be an awfully high ceiling. Light can travel 20 feet in .02 microseconds... that's 6000 times faster than 1/8000th exposure.

>slaps forehead with hand< doh!!

looks like i'm wearing the dunce hat now, lol

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dan

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symbology
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to Davi7d777, 8 months ago

Davi7d777 wrote:

Completed initiaing the swap with the Sony Customer Service from HVL-F20S to the HVL-F20M. After relating the information about how their Sony Store A6000 website accessory information is inadequate and need some webmaster work, they waved a restocking shipping fee so this swap will not cost anything additional.

One thing explained was the stack up to get the flash to work via a cord is:

A6000
ADPAMA $24.99
FA-CC1AM $49.99
FA-CS1M $59.95
HVL-F20M $149.00

Else could buy the HVL-43M for $400 and directly connect it via the flash port jack.

Will forgo purchasing the above cord prts for now and wait for the flash to come in then verify that works as expected directly on the A6000 hot shoe. Will be interested in knowing about any other cord or wireless solutions between the camera and flash.

One thing to consider when going with the HVL-F20M flash.  It is TTL, but does not offer HSS.   You will never be able to go beyond 1/160th with that flash on, or off the camera.  It also is not going to be much more powerful than your a6000's onboard flash.

Also, using the HVL-F20M as a wireless controller is ok, but there is a lot of lag when using it this way.  A lot of pre-flash activity and a delay between hitting the shutter release, and the actual shutter actuation.  I hated it.

I would go with the Phottix Odin and an older Minolta / Sony flash.   You can get the 3600HSD /HVL36AM for around $100.   You can get the 5600HSD / HVL-56AM for around $150.   The HVL-F20AM works well on the Odins too.   All you would need to get the above to work is the ADPMAA adapter for the Odin TX.    This will give you wireless TTL and HSS flash and you would not be putting an enormous flash on top of your nice and compact a6000.

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Davi7d777
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to symbology, 8 months ago

Thanks again. Never used HSS and after reviewing this page:

http://www.rpphoto.com/howto/view.asp?articleID=1026

Understand when it is of value though for my closeup work of subjects I can shoot staticly is not important. Looked at the Phottix Odin solution. Nice functions but overkill, pricy, and some bulk. Am now wondering if I can use the

ADPAMA and FA-CS1M

by fitting a cheap cord like the 3 different brands shown at Amazon for less than $25 instead of the $60 Sony FA-CS1M? Of course all this stuff is annoyingly lacking basic compatibility information or descriptions of what is actually on each cord or adaptor end. As someone in electronic engineering and handy with soldering if need be, I could cluge a wire solution between the ADPAMA and FA-CS1M if I had a pin to pin schematic of the connectivity of the Sony cord.

David

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RonFrank
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to kcamacho11, 8 months ago

Sony makes very poor very overpriced flash equipment. The expensive shoe mount f43m/F60m both overheat. For whatever reason Sony really stinks at flash right down to the A6000 on camera flash which does not seem to trigger off camera flash? If true that really blows.

Here is one example of a Metz flash that does TTL and works TTL wireless as well.  It bounces, swivels, and cooks breakfast!  It has the capability of accepting firmware updates.  Can it be triggered from the built-in flash?  I have no idea but it can definitely fire on camera and trigger off camera flashes.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/895944-REG/Metz_me52af1s_52_AF_1_Digital_Flash.html

There are also less expensive Metz dedicated units so shop around.  A cheap flash would be good if the built-in flash will not fire a wireless flash. The 52 caught my eye because its very full featured.

I have been around flash equipment a while and Metz has been around a long long time.

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ImagesByNick
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to RonFrank, 3 months ago

RonFrank wrote:

Sony makes very poor very overpriced flash equipment. The expensive shoe mount f43m/F60m both overheat. For whatever reason Sony really stinks at flash right down to the A6000 on camera flash which does not seem to trigger off camera flash? If true that really blows.

Here is one example of a Metz flash that does TTL and works TTL wireless as well. It bounces, swivels, and cooks breakfast! It has the capability of accepting firmware updates. Can it be triggered from the built-in flash? I have no idea but it can definitely fire on camera and trigger off camera flashes.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/895944-REG/Metz_me52af1s_52_AF_1_Digital_Flash.html

There are also less expensive Metz dedicated units so shop around. A cheap flash would be good if the built-in flash will not fire a wireless flash. The 52 caught my eye because its very full featured.

I have been around flash equipment a while and Metz has been around a long long time.

Back in the day Metz made some of the best flash equipment around for some of the highest prices. Not much has changed in 35 years!

FWIW I think this is what you will want ... if you can wait ...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1071202-REG/metz_mz_64316s_64af_1_digital_flash_for.html

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ImagesByNick
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to ImagesByNick, 1 month ago

Over the weekend I ran across the issue RonFrank wrote about - the HVL-F60M overheating.  Overall it is a great flash - powerful, excellent TTL even when using modifiers and bounce, easy to use menus and a really cool ability to rotate the flash head for vertical shooting.

However ... I would not expect a pro-grade flash such as this to overheat under normal circumstances.  Perhaps, if I were using an external battery pack, shooting full power in rapid fire, and working in 110 degree heat then maybe ...  But I had no external battery pack, was not shooting any faster than I would with my Yongnuo or Canon units and it just wasn't that hot - maybe 85 or 90 F at the most.

Oh, and Ron is also correct that the onboard flash of an A6000 will not control the F60M for TTL.  You can still use the F60M as a manual remote flash, of course or bite the bullet and spring for a Phottix Odin setup or another external Sony flash but those are your only options.

I still love the A6000 / F60M combination but ... Sony - please fix the overheating!

Finally please everyone put pressure on Yongnuo to create a version of their awesome flashes for Sony!!

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captura
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to ImagesByNick, 1 month ago

ImagesByNick wrote:

Over the weekend I ran across the issue RonFrank wrote about - the HVL-F60M overheating. Overall it is a great flash - powerful, excellent TTL even when using modifiers and bounce, easy to use menus and a really cool ability to rotate the flash head for vertical shooting.

However ... I would not expect a pro-grade flash such as this to overheat under normal circumstances. Perhaps, if I were using an external battery pack, shooting full power in rapid fire, and working in 110 degree heat then maybe ... But I had no external battery pack, was not shooting any faster than I would with my Yongnuo or Canon units and it just wasn't that hot - maybe 85 or 90 F at the most.

Oh, and Ron is also correct that the onboard flash of an A6000 will not control the F60M for TTL. You can still use the F60M as a manual remote flash, of course or bite the bullet and spring for a Phottix Odin setup or another external Sony flash but those are your only options.

I still love the A6000 / F60M combination but ... Sony - please fix the overheating!

Finally please everyone put pressure on Yongnuo to create a version of their awesome flashes for Sony!!

Lately there has been a lot of attention on the Nissin i40 compact flash on this forum. I know it's less powerful but it seems to be popular and about 1/2 the price.

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val1
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Re: a6000 External Flash?
In reply to captura, 1 month ago

I recently picked up the nissin i40. I am still playing with it. In same ways I like it better than the metz and in other ways I like it less. This flash is smaaalllll. It looks pretty well scaled on an A6000. In terms of power, it is pretty solid. It takes 4 batteries. With enaloop about 4 seconds between flashes at full power. The manual TTL dial EV override is AWESOME. Metz menus take ALOT longer ot change most things. The nissin does seem to cause ALOT of red eye. The flash sits really low on the body.(As I recall you need like an inch of offset for each foot distance. This sucker is like 3 inches off the optical axis if your lucky.)

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