Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
mmmmmmmm
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Way too many cry babies on this forum
In reply to G3User, 5 months ago

Say one thing bad or not complimentary about Nikon and stand back because you are certainly going to be "flamed" for ever.

As a full time photographer since l970, I have seen many changes in the world of professional photography.  And, I might add, not all the changes are for the best.  For instance, in a close neighboring town, a mother and daughter duo has started to capture the local market.  They charge $36 for a 16X20 and $12 for an 8X10.  Heck, I was charging $145 for a 16X20 more than 30 years ago.  Fortunately I am 71 and retiring this year!!

Also back in the MF days we paid more than $5000 for a 2-1/4 by 2-1/4 camera that to this day takes a great in focus picture.  All soccer moms had were point and shoot 35mm cameras so we had little competition.  Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry as well as soccer moms can go to Walmart and buy a $100 camera and take pictures almost as good as my expensive Nikons.

BACK TO NIKON AND CANON!  As a member of the PPofA for more than 30 years, I have received their magazine.  By far most portraits have been taken with Canon and I believe for a very good reason.  It is much easier to get great skin tones with Canon than NIKON.  If you read the article written by Scott why he switched, you will read that flesh tones was the biggest reason he switched.  Believe it or not but I can look at a portrait and tell 90% of the time which camera took a portrait.

My D800 is probably the worst camera that I have every purchased.  It has been back to Nikon two times for focus problems.  Each time it comes back with a letter stating there is nothing wrong with the focus but still at typical portrait distances I get crappy focus - even off a tripod.  I don't even use the D800 anymore, using my two D700s which give me great in-focus pictures.

Another thing about Nikon I dislike is their flash systems.  I switched years ago from Canon to Nikon because at the timed Nikon had a better flash system.  Now that Canon has the e-ttl II or whatever they call it, along with their new radio controlled flash system, Canon has the far more accurate flash.

If I had another 10 or 15 years in the business I would be a Canon shooter in a heart beat.  My Canon EOS-M that I paid only $375 for takes better and more consistenty focused  pictures than my D800 which is sad.

I have more than $50,000 in cameras, lenses, flashes, studio flashes.  Used equipment isn't worth crap when you go to sell it.  The D700 is still the best Nikon for the money.  You don't need more pixels for portraits.

respectfully,

David Miller

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JF69
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Kelby walks where the money talks……0% credibility, don't bother with him (nt)
In reply to G3User, 5 months ago
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Phil_L
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to 1w12q312qw1, 5 months ago

1w12q312qw1 wrote:

Phil_L wrote:

G3User wrote:

Scott denied that it had nothing to do with the money when he changed to Canon from Nikon.

Double negation!

Dosen't mean what you intended! But...

Yes, it's all about the $$$.

Phil_L

Scott's a businessman, not the Dalai Lama, and I don't expect him to apologize for that.
And his prime business is editing digital images, now they're coming from a Canon and not a Nikon.
Whoop-de-doo!

Stan

Fair enough!

Just in case you think I care what brand camera he uses, or why?

I dont!

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Nikon PR Swirls the Drain
In reply to G3User, 5 months ago

G3User wrote:

Scott denied that it had nothing to do with the money when he changed to Canon from Nikon. Now it's evident he was not telling the truth. Today, he announced the launch of a Canon fan boy tour. Also, DXO marks say that he was not telling the truth when he said that the 1Dx was better than the D4. Nikon DXO marks clearly trump Canon's. What a joke Scott Kelby. I no longer subscribe to your videos or watch your pod-casts.

This reads like sour grapes to me. And on a practical level, I'm sure there are many more Canon shooters out there to pick up or mint than there are Nikon shooters to lose.

Insulting Kelby's photography or his educational material doesn't score any credibility to my mind. His portfolio (and that of his crew) usually looks pretty solid. Yes, his organization's hype often rolls like a Florida timeshare pitch; but when it comes down to it, lots of people on this board would kill for a book like his. And his organization offers plenty of practical, useful material--for beginners, the lighting workflow stuff from Joe McNally is worth the price of admission, alone. Seriously: $20 for a few hours of McNally working step-by-step through practical lighting scenarios? It might be the best $20 a new photographer can spend.

Let's also not forget what Kelby does: he teaches (proselytizes?) an Adobe workflow. As so many Capture NX2 devotees (still licking wounds from the NX-D debacle, no doubt) would pedantically remind us, Nikon + Adobe Camera Raw has never been an ideal mix--or perhaps could we more accurately describe the relationship this way: Nikon has never made much of an effort to play well with Adobe Camera Raw. However you'd characterize the Nikon-Adobe RAW disconnect, I don't disagree that it exists. If I were devoted to a start-to-finish Adobe workflow, I'd rather shoot Canon, too.

(Consider another aspect of this picture: while Nikon dicks around with "Capture NX-D," Canon begins bundling Lightroom with its full-frame cameras.)

Kelby's endorsement is gonna sell a lot of Canon gear--there's no way around that. Meanwhile, all those years that Kelby and his crew shot Nikon there was no official sponsorship, no reps, no advertising, no swag--nothing. Not a peep from the Nikon mothership. It's almost as if they took it for granted.

Sooner or later, Nikon will need to take its PR head out of its rear end. I'm waist deep in a system of Nikon lenses and flashes, so I've been crossing my fingers that it'll be sooner; but I feel like I've already been waiting long enough to know it'll be later. After all, you don't see China scolding Canon for selling defective crap.

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rdhphoto1
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Man, you nailed that!
In reply to mmmmmmmm, 5 months ago

mmmmmmmm wrote:

Say one thing bad or not complimentary about Nikon and stand back because you are certainly going to be "flamed" for ever.

As a full time photographer since l970, I have seen many changes in the world of professional photography. And, I might add, not all the changes are for the best. For instance, in a close neighboring town, a mother and daughter duo has started to capture the local market. They charge $36 for a 16X20 and $12 for an 8X10. Heck, I was charging $145 for a 16X20 more than 30 years ago. Fortunately I am 71 and retiring this year!!

Also back in the MF days we paid more than $5000 for a 2-1/4 by 2-1/4 camera that to this day takes a great in focus picture. All soccer moms had were point and shoot 35mm cameras so we had little competition. Now every Tom, Dick, and Harry as well as soccer moms can go to Walmart and buy a $100 camera and take pictures almost as good as my expensive Nikons.

BACK TO NIKON AND CANON! As a member of the PPofA for more than 30 years, I have received their magazine. By far most portraits have been taken with Canon and I believe for a very good reason. It is much easier to get great skin tones with Canon than NIKON. If you read the article written by Scott why he switched, you will read that flesh tones was the biggest reason he switched. Believe it or not but I can look at a portrait and tell 90% of the time which camera took a portrait.

My D800 is probably the worst camera that I have every purchased. It has been back to Nikon two times for focus problems. Each time it comes back with a letter stating there is nothing wrong with the focus but still at typical portrait distances I get crappy focus - even off a tripod. I don't even use the D800 anymore, using my two D700s which give me great in-focus pictures.

Another thing about Nikon I dislike is their flash systems. I switched years ago from Canon to Nikon because at the timed Nikon had a better flash system. Now that Canon has the e-ttl II or whatever they call it, along with their new radio controlled flash system, Canon has the far more accurate flash.

If I had another 10 or 15 years in the business I would be a Canon shooter in a heart beat. My Canon EOS-M that I paid only $375 for takes better and more consistenty focused pictures than my D800 which is sad.

I have more than $50,000 in cameras, lenses, flashes, studio flashes. Used equipment isn't worth crap when you go to sell it. The D700 is still the best Nikon for the money. You don't need more pixels for portraits.

respectfully,

David Miller

You are 100% correct on all points.  IMVHO.

Good luck with your photography.

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wjansen
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to benjaminblack, 5 months ago

Well the Bush-appointed Supreme Court would certainly agree with you;-)

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dmanthree
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to G3User, 5 months ago

G3User wrote:

Scott denied that it had nothing to do with the money when he changed to Canon from Nikon. Now it's evident he was not telling the truth. Today, he announced the launch of a Canon fan boy tour. Also, DXO marks say that he was not telling the truth when he said that the 1Dx was better than the D4. Nikon DXO marks clearly trump Canon's. What a joke Scott Kelby. I no longer subscribe to your videos or watch your pod-casts.

If Canon made you an offer to shoot with their gear and promote it, would you turn it down? And while I believe you are right, we have no way of knowing for sure.

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brianric
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to dmanthree, 5 months ago

dmanthree wrote:

If Canon made you an offer to shoot with their gear and promote it, would you turn it down? And while I believe you are right, we have no way of knowing for sure.

Canon yes. Micro 4/3, no.

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Serickmetz
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to G3User, 5 months ago

Where one loses a fan he gains another. I will gladly follow him now that he shoots canon. Sounds like a smart man.

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amobi
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Used to be ken Rockwell now it is Scott Kelby.
In reply to Serickmetz, 5 months ago

Some of you guys are pathetic. Yeah we all should stop buying his books because he shoots Canon now. If that is the case, it makes sense for him to switch because Canon has more shooters than Nikon.

His switch is not even worthy of discussion. Now I know why we have people like David koresh. We have bunch of followers and brand blindness especially in this Nikon forum.

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anotherMike
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Re: Used to be ken Rockwell now it is Scott Kelby.
In reply to amobi, 5 months ago

You  nailed that one. While I'm not a Scott Kelby fan - never really liked his books 10+ years ago when I was learning photoshop (back then there were far better) - but his group does include some people whom I do respect quite a bit (like Joe McNally), but it really doesn't, nor shouldn't, matter what he shoots brand wise. Who cares. I've met some serious (and even semi-famous) shooters in real life and when we talk, it's never about brand names but always about light, location, subject matter or matters creative. My opinion of Kelby or McNally wouldn't change if both decided to change to Pentax, for example, this afternoon. I judge then by their writing and work irregardless of their brand choice.

-m

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cosmonaut
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to Thoughts R Us, 5 months ago

Thoughts R Us wrote:

rayman 2 wrote:

SVPhotography wrote:

Put it this way - if Canon offered you a couple of 1Dxs with any lens you want to go with it for free - wouldn't you switch?

G3User wrote:

Scott denied that it had nothing to do with the money when he changed to Canon from Nikon. Now it's evident he was not telling the truth. Today, he announced the launch of a Canon fan boy tour. Also, DXO marks say that he was not telling the truth when he said that the 1Dx was better than the D4. Nikon DXO marks clearly trump Canon's. What a joke Scott Kelby. I no longer subscribe to your videos or watch your pod-casts.

nope !

The key isn't so much that Canon gave Kelby some free equipment...that's nice, but for someone of Kelby's stature that's probably not a dealmaker. The key is that Canon has offered sponsorship of Kelby events...and that is far more important and lucrative to Kelby and his business model.

So the question should really be: if Canon offered you a ton of sponsorship money, that basically sustained and elevated the bread and butter of your business, would you take it?

I submit that virtually everyone would, because your business model depends on it. It's a very difficult to make money in the world of professional photography these days, and if Canon can basically ensure your success then of course you will go with them.

Keep in mind that Kelby's main business isn't shooting pics and selling them...it's putting on events, educational seminars, photo walks, etc...and also selling his books/dvd's/instructional software. Canon now is underwriting a good amount of that. Witness this Canon in Action Tour. That's big bucks to Scott.

So I don't blame Scott, as long as he is transparent about his ties with Canon. Given that his tour is called Canon in Action, I would say he is being about as transparent as possible.

Point taken but I wouldn't buy a camera on the advise of a paid salesman. I had rather gather my advise from several sources and as unbiased as possible. Now hang a 5D around Kate Upton's neck and I may switch.

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kenwj
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Re: Who cares !!! (nt)
In reply to rayman 2, 5 months ago

Ditto!

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afterburn
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to cosmonaut, 5 months ago

cosmonaut wrote:

Point taken but I wouldn't buy a camera on the advise of a paid salesman. I had rather gather my advise from several sources and as unbiased as possible. Now hang a 5D around Kate Upton's neck and I may switch.

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www.gregmccary.com

The thing is though, he doesn't advise on what camera to buy. He teaches Adobe stuff. The camera is irrelevant.

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Gijs from The Netherlands
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In reply to anotherMike, 5 months ago

anotherMike wrote:

You nailed that one. While I'm not a Scott Kelby fan - never really liked his books 10+ years ago when I was learning photoshop (back then there were far better) - but his group does include some people whom I do respect quite a bit (like Joe McNally), but it really doesn't, nor shouldn't, matter what he shoots brand wise. Who cares. I've met some serious (and even semi-famous) shooters in real life and when we talk, it's never about brand names but always about light, location, subject matter or matters creative. My opinion of Kelby or McNally wouldn't change if both decided to change to Pentax, for example, this afternoon. I judge then by their writing and work irregardless of their brand choice.

-m

I couldn't agree more with your personal metric for what matters in photographic merit.

But Kelby's switch is worth remarking: his organization has huge reach, particularly among people just starting their photographic interest. How do people decide what camera to buy? Well, "it's the system my photoshop teachers--Scott Kelby & crew--recommend" isn't a terrible answer.

What's worse for Nikon? Kelby didn't just switch and say "well, it doesn't really matter, they're the same" or "eh, I haven't used Canon in a while so I thought I'd check in." No, he (and many in his crew) have been offering performance-based explanations for switching. They aren't just saying "it's all good;" they're saying "there are many things that Canon does better, so many things that we found it worth while to switch." To the uninitiated, that's a powerful recommendation.

We can argue all we like about whether that message is disingenuous; I agree that if Canon gave me a lucrative sponsorship deal, I'd find things to like about the EOS system, too. Still, the collected crew of one of the most visible media associations in the photographic world flipping--and offering, at length, substantive reasons for the flip--is an undeniably damning optic.

I can't think of a better way to put camera systems in customer hands than by making sure your brand is pasted everywhere and talked about all the time within the world's most popular Adobe training program. Everywhere you see Kelby, you now see "Adobe-Canon" and "Canon-Adobe." It's a brilliant marketing play, an exceptional exercise in the power of co-branding. Canon reps are there palling around with Adobe reps; everyone looks happy and encouraging and ready to help--it's one big, successful, fun fan-damly that you can join. You, Adobe and Canon. Photography is Adobe and Canon.

Meanwhile, what's Nikon got? Ashton Kutcher and that "I am . . . " business? Uh-huh. Does anyone even understand what that "I am . . . " crap means?

Worst of all, it's not just Kelby. I surely wouldn't base my photographic needs on what works for Ken Rockwell, but he is hugely visible and he's gone. Thom Hogan? Also visible, influential, and very, very critical. Chase Jarvis? Influential and increasingly critical. These are all the folks who come up on that first Google search, and among them it's like dominoes falling over one by one by one. We're all savvy enough to know that none of these people ought to dictate anything more meaningful than their own opinion or need; but again, many new photographers just starting--just buying into their first system--aren't so circumspect. Again, "it's what my photoshop teacher uses" seems like a perfectly reasonable justification for picking a system.

If Nikon can't market its way out of a paper bag, we're all in trouble. If they don't sell cameras, we don't get new and better; if they don't sell cameras, what we've got declines in value. I'm not suggesting that Scott Kelby's whim suddenly turns my Nikon gear to dust; but I am saying that a big system is an investment, in part, in the future. So while Kelby's switch doesn't mean much to me directly, or today, it's the kind of thing that could mean a lot for the equipment Nikon is able to offer a generation or two from now.

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R_U_Q_R_U
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Re: Tamra Lackey Switched TO Nikon
In reply to MarkJH, 5 months ago

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VbbyMfutGVYJ:tamaralackeyblog.com/switch-from-canon-to-nikon/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Not as "famous" as Chase, but pretty well known. Has appeared on Creative Live a number of times...https://www.facebook.com/TamaraLackeyPhotography

But most searches show folks going the other way...

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dmanthree
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to brianric, 5 months ago

brianric wrote:

dmanthree wrote:

If Canon made you an offer to shoot with their gear and promote it, would you turn it down? And while I believe you are right, we have no way of knowing for sure.

Canon yes. Micro 4/3, no.

Even if it suited your needs?

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nikonjohn
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Mark - I suspect that Kelby's reach among newbie photographers is going to
In reply to MarkJH, 5 months ago

be pretty limited now that he is charging $250 per year to be a Kelby One member.  I've purchased three of his books and have been to three of his training sessions.  I thought the books were pretty good but the one on CS 5 was pretty much limited to using ACR so it was somewhat of a disappointment.  Two of the training sessions I attended were great but the third one was a dud.  For the most part the training was purely generic as far as using particular equipment went.  Now that Canon is sponsoring a training tour the generic approach may change but I'm not sure how much that will influence his customer base on the camera system they use.

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TQGroup
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Re: Used to be ken Rockwell now it is Scott Kelby.
In reply to anotherMike, 5 months ago

Awww, Mike, please don't spoil the fun and think logically, and correctly! This is an emotional stoush, think bloodsports... think Roman Colosseum! And Mr Kelby is laughing all the way to the bank with all the free oxygen this forum is generating. Prior to this forum, I'd never heard of this dude!

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cosmonaut
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Re: Kelby has gone too far now - Launches Canon In Action Tour.
In reply to roustabout66, 5 months ago

roustabout66 wrote:

starman1969 wrote:

Kcott Selby shares similar traits with Ren Kockwell.

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They are watching us......

I have never heard of Kcott Selby.....does he have a website?

Yeah he is pretty famous. Google "Mr. Rogers Neighborhood"

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