Will the A7711 be mirorless

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
tbcass
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Re: What's wrong with SLT, really ? It WORKS.
In reply to Ron Poelman, 7 months ago

I agree with you and expect my SLTs to keep me happy for years to come but then having the latest and greatest isn't, in itself, important to me.
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tqlla
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Re: What's wrong with SLT, really ? It WORKS.
In reply to tbcass, 7 months ago

YES per SAR, another Emount camera is coming out this weekend. (SAR is usually right, when they say something is coming out tomorrow, or yesterday)

IMO, the question should be "Will there be an A77 ii?"

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TrojMacReady
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No, probably not a "false restriction".
In reply to VirtualMirage, 7 months ago

VirtualMirage wrote:

havoc315 wrote:

No.

The a6000 still can't fully AF a-mount lenses without a mirror based adapter.
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So do you think that dedicated on sensor PDAF will never work with A-mount lenses and that a mirror has to be used with A-mount lenses?

Have you thought about that it may not be so much a limitation of the technology that is preventing it from working and more so a false restriction Sony has put in place so they can sell you more accessories or that the on sensor PDAF for the A6000 is optimized for the focusing motors used only in the E-mount lenses (which is different than screw drive and SSM)?

What do you think is so different between an on sensor PDAF and a dedicated PDAF sensor that a lens will only work on one of them?

The only difference between the two is one's light path doesn't get diverted and the other does. The one whose light path is diverted travels the same distance, it only takes an extra 90 degree turn.

PDAF is PDAF. Whether it be on sensor or a dedicated chip, the principle is the same. The lens doesn't cares if the path to the PDAF is straight or if it takes a turn by a mirror. The lens knows no difference.

Now the focusing mechanism by the lens (SSM, screw driven, SAM, etc.) can make a difference if it is not optimized for PDAF, hence why lenses designed for contrast AF don't perform that well on PDAF cameras and vice versa.

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Paul

If the A6000 didn't also rely on CDAF, you could have a point. But it's still a hybrid system that needs both to work. And for as long that is the case, it won't work well with A mount lenses (which have non CDAF optimized motors, gearing and chips).

Once precision/fine tuning in the last stage of AF is also covered with on sensor PDAF, then yes, A mount lenses could be supported (when profiled...) with OSPDAF.

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Will the A7711 be mirorless
In reply to clockwork247, 7 months ago

clockwork247 wrote:

the pentax K-01 did it, easily, focus is slow with long lens, but shorter ones are quick. and that camera was released a while ago. I have one. The technology is there, and I honestly do not see a reason for mirror, there's a ton of lens/body combo that doesn't work (or atleast people think doesn't work well, or that the lens is soft), what contribute to this is that we focus using 1 sensor and take picture using another. A mirrorless camera focus/take picture using the same dam sensor, no more misfocusing.

It's one of the slowest focusing ILC bodies that was sold the past years with focusing times ranging between 0.8s and over a second, depending on the lens used. That's 4 times slower than even a NEX using jut CDAF and up to 8 times slower than current A mount bodies.

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TrojMacReady
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Don't get your hopes up yet.
In reply to Ken Sky, 7 months ago

CDAF still seems to be used for the last (precision) stage of the AF chain too (besides the smallest apertures and extremely low light). Once PDAF works fully without the help of CDAF, it may happen.

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123Mike
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Re: Don't get your hopes up yet.
In reply to TrojMacReady, 7 months ago

TrojMacReady wrote:

CDAF still seems to be used for the last (precision) stage of the AF chain too (besides the smallest apertures and extremely low light). Once PDAF works fully without the help of CDAF, it may happen.

But really though? Have you seen how fast the A6000 focuses? I doubt there is any back-and-forth homing in. In order for it to be *that* snappy, the focus has got to be just one decisive move to spot on!

But of course, if that is true, then why have any CDAF any all? I can't answer that.

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TrojMacReady
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Re: Don't get your hopes up yet.
In reply to 123Mike, 7 months ago

123Mike wrote:

TrojMacReady wrote:

CDAF still seems to be used for the last (precision) stage of the AF chain too (besides the smallest apertures and extremely low light). Once PDAF works fully without the help of CDAF, it may happen.

But really though? Have you seen how fast the A6000 focuses? I doubt there is any back-and-forth homing in. In order for it to be *that* snappy, the focus has got to be just one decisive move to spot on!

But of course, if that is true, then why have any CDAF any all? I can't answer that.

Current stepper motors can oscillate extremely fast, just look at the current OM-D cameras which usually also don't show visible hunting for (more) static subjects despite relying on CDAF. The latter lack the capability to sense direction and directional changes anywhere near as fast as PDAF, which is a handicap for tracking. The A6000 can now do both.

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don1jam
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Re: What's wrong with SLT, really ? It WORKS.
In reply to tqlla, 7 months ago

tqlla wrote:

YES per SAR, another Emount camera is coming out this weekend. (SAR is usually right, when they say something is coming out tomorrow, or yesterday)

IMO, the question should be "Will there be an A77 ii?"

The writing is on the wall for the A Mount.

We can choose to accept it or not. The A77 replacement may eventually come, but we know where Sony's priority is.

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VirtualMirage
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Re: No, probably not a "false restriction".
In reply to TrojMacReady, 7 months ago

TrojMacReady wrote:

If the A6000 didn't also rely on CDAF, you could have a point. But it's still a hybrid system that needs both to work. And for as long that is the case, it won't work well with A mount lenses (which have non CDAF optimized motors, gearing and chips).

Once precision/fine tuning in the last stage of AF is also covered with on sensor PDAF, then yes, A mount lenses could be supported (when profiled...) with OSPDAF.

You are right about it with its CDAF.  Honestly, I forgot about the CDAF portion of its focusing system and was mainly concerned with the on sensor PDAF portion.  My main point was the ability of the on sensor PDAF portion should have the ability to work with A-mount from a technical standpoint.

If the other poster's comment is true that the A6000 PDAF works up to F/13 and from there the CDAF kicks in, then A-mount lenses should work fine if focused wide open like they do on DSLR/DSLT cameras.

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Paul

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tqlla
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Re: What's wrong with SLT, really ? It WORKS.
In reply to don1jam, 7 months ago

don1jam wrote:

tqlla wrote:

YES per SAR, another Emount camera is coming out this weekend. (SAR is usually right, when they say something is coming out tomorrow, or yesterday)

IMO, the question should be "Will there be an A77 ii?"

The writing is on the wall for the A Mount.

We can choose to accept it or not. The A77 replacement may eventually come, but we know where Sony's priority is.

With the impending announcement of the announcement of the A7s, that makes 3 Emounts announced in 2014 and nada for the Amount.  7 Emounts in the last 7 months. (A3000, A5000, A7, A7r, A3500, A6000, A7s)

Yay 2014.... year of the Amount!

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Don't get your hopes up yet.
In reply to 123Mike, 7 months ago

TrojMacReady wrote:

CDAF still seems to be used for the last (precision) stage of the AF chain too (besides the smallest apertures and extremely low light). Once PDAF works fully without the help of CDAF, it may happen.

But really though? Have you seen how fast the A6000 focuses? I doubt there is any back-and-forth homing in. In order for it to be *that* snappy, the focus has got to be just one decisive move to spot on!

But of course, if that is true, then why have any CDAF any all? I can't answer that.

CDAF is used for precision. You don't see the typical back and forth CDAF trait because a part of the hybrid design is to minimize that effect. In fact, as I noted earlier, Sony is using a PDAF like motor set up in RX10 eventhough it is a CDAF camera. The processing power and AF movement has improved dramatically allowing these improvements.

If you look into early hybrid AF system (5R/6), PDAF was only to get close enougj with final tuning via CDAF. With a6000, the PDAF role may have increased combined with a much faster support system including the new processor.

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