X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Tony Bonanno
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X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
8 months ago

Just finished doing a quick and dirty comparison of C1's latest release (7.2.1) with Adobe's ACR 8.4 beta with X-T1 RAW files. I don't know if Adobe has actually tweaked the X processing a bit further, but I'm finding the two conversion engines are so close now that I don't see that C1 offers any real advantages, at least in terms of detail and rendering of foliage (maybe in some other areas related to color tweaking). I also think the new adobe engine, at it's default settings, offers more "accurate color", although I realize that many users like C1's more punchy default color. C1 is a great program, but my workflow is based on Lightroom. I hope Adobe releases LR 5.4 (or 5.4 release candidate) soon.

BTW, the ACR beta (and Lightroom when ready) also incorporates user selectable profiles for RAW conversion that mimic the Fuji film settings, a nice touch.

Two files attached, high res low compression jpegs, C1 with default settings, ACR with a small amount of sharpening (to offset Adobe's soft default).

ACR 8.4 beta

Capture One 7.2.1

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SaltLakeGuy
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I'm STILL waiting
In reply to Tony Bonanno, 8 months ago

for Adobe to release the NEW Lightroom ver. 5.4 with full support for the X-T1, not this stupid hack stuff so called floating around. Until they do that  I'm in the PhotoNinja camp all the way.

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baobob
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Tony Bonanno, 8 months ago

I still find difficult to sharpen in ACR where it is easier in C1 especially for foliage

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tman1991
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to baobob, 8 months ago

I find the sharpening in LR to be not very good as one gets blotchy artifacts unless there are better settings to use.

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Dave Chilvers
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to tman1991, 8 months ago

Try using Nik software and use selective sharpening with the focus function

Dave

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Kris Charatonik
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Tony Bonanno, 8 months ago

I'm really loving how the C1 file looks. I do love the LR work flow though.
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Robert Garcia NYC
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Kris Charatonik, 7 months ago

Capture all the way.

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guitarjeff
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Robert Garcia NYC, 7 months ago

Robert Garcia NYC wrote:

Capture all the way.

From what I understand from many is that the only change to Adobe is the color profiles, there is zero difference in the conversion since like 4.4 of Lightroom.  DNg converter is using nothing different than the  current lR and the only extra that has been added is the color sims.

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[[[If I am commenting on your awesome X trans photos, I consider it a shame there are a few users in this forum who claim that test charts keep them away from X trans cams, this then encompasses all photos like these, and are part of what keep these few fellows away from X trans, amazing but true.]]]

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forpetessake
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Tony Bonanno, 7 months ago

I don't know if those samples are representative or the differences are mostly due to PP, but the C1 picture looks much worse due to more visible artifacts, loss of fine details, burned out contrast, and the dreaded aqua colored sky.

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Tony Bonanno
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to forpetessake, 7 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

I don't know if those samples are representative or the differences are mostly due to PP, but the C1 picture looks much worse due to more visible artifacts, loss of fine details, burned out contrast, and the dreaded aqua colored sky.

I just went back and looked at the RAF files again in C1 and ACR beta 8.4. I've included the re-processed files again, just to make sure I didn't overlook something. Both files exported as high res, low compression JPEG's. The C1 file was processed with C1's default X-T1 Generic profile. No adjustments made to any parameters in the C1 file. The ACR file was processed using the "Adobe Standard" default profile.  I did tweak the sharpening just a little bit in ACR to help offset Adobe's soft default value. I was not comparing color, levels, etc. as these can be altered to the user taste in both programs. The C1 file is a lot punchier at the default values. And, although the two files are very close in foliage detail with these pp values, the ACR file looks pretty clean overall. I suspect if I brought down C1's sharpening levels and the noise reduction levels a little bit from the default values, the two files would look even closer.

The ACR file is flatter and not nearly as punchy as the default C1. However, my main interest was the level of detail and how the foliage was rendered (the smearing effect in earlier versions of LR).  Maybe Adobe has worked on the engine a little bit since 5.3 ?? These are just initial observations and I need to spend more time trying various post processing scenarios.

The bottom line for me is that both programs are capable of doing a very good job with the X-T1's RAW files.

ACR Beta 8.4

Capture One 7.2.1

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Tony Bonanno
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Dave Chilvers, 7 months ago

Dave Chilvers wrote:

Try using Nik software and use selective sharpening with the focus function

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I've overlooked Nik..  I have it and will give it a try.  Thanks for the tip.

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baobob
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to tman1991, 7 months ago

Same for me What I do when I use ACR andnot C&²is I open in PS TIFF then use Nik Sharpener that way I get results on parwith C1

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ChuckTa
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Tony Bonanno, 7 months ago

I am surprise by the large difference in color. The Capture One plants looks almost reddish. I think the ACR one looks more natural.

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bensherman
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to Tony Bonanno, 7 months ago

WB implementation in C1 is terrible....its a little better with RAF compared with NEF files. ACR has almost accurate interpretation of FUJI WB and thats why the color appears more natural with ACR. Strangely if you disable Lens Correction in C1 you may see slight improvement in sharpness.Overall I think C1 is best suited for phaseone files or else you will need to use custom made ICC Profiles to be able to get acceptable colors and tone.

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Dave Chilvers
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to bensherman, 7 months ago

I get more pleasing results using Astia in ACR, I drop the radius to.5 and leave the sharpening at 25 and then if more detail is required I just use nik and selective focus on the main point/points. That way you can maintain a natural look to the bulk of the image. I find the blue sky usually requires a tweak away from cyan but in general I`m surprised how decent the images look.

I have a pc in my study and also one out in my amateur radio shack in the garden and although both calibrated they do make the files look different so it`s no wonder really that other peoples images don`t always look to our taste. They should if we all calibrate but different monitors and graphics cards  etc portray the colours differently.

I was a member of a camera club for many years and we did an experiment with regards to how each one of us see certain colors and although pretty close there were some discrepancies between members. I think I have pretty good eyes as far as color shades go and so does my wife (she also has the ears to match  and we do sometimes differ on the finer shades. No problem on the basic colors like red blue green etc but get into the many in between shades and we do perceive slightly differently. (not enough to sneak in a new silver version of a black camera that I already own though unfortunately)

Dave

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Les Lammers
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to ChuckTa, 7 months ago

I agree.

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Kris Charatonik
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to guitarjeff, 7 months ago

So this is a bad thing right ?

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Tony Bonanno
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Re: X-T1 RAW in Capture One and ACR 8.4 Beta - Initial Observation
In reply to ChuckTa, 7 months ago

ChuckTa wrote:

I am surprise by the large difference in color. The Capture One plants looks almost reddish. I think the ACR one looks more natural.

Hi Chuck,

The scene is right outside my studio (I've looked at it a LOT :-).  I agree with you about C1's color.  It does not appear as accurate as ACR at the default settings.  One area that is way off is the reddish pollen on some of the Juniper trees. C1's default really over emphasizes that tone. I also see that ACR is much more accurate with the Adobe color of the homes. All this can be corrected of course in the PP, but I'm finding that ACR seems to be more "on target" with its default values.

Tony

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