Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Aberaeron
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Re: Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?
In reply to neil holmes, 6 months ago

neil holmes wrote:

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

Both are great cameras.

I would prefer the A6000 of those two but that is me .

I prefer an EVF over OVF almost any day....at least it is better for MY needs and especially the Sony A7 EVF...A6000 EVF may not be as good but still good enough.

As for lenses that is a non issue for either even though the Nikon can not use all available Nikon auto focus lenses, the Sony can use native E and FE lenses (of which there are more than enough for most) but also later on you can add adapter(s) and autofocus almost (if not all) Canon EF lenses, Sony/Minolta AF lenses and even Contax G.

This.

Plus follow your dreams and don't be a sheep that blindly follows the flock. My experience with a D5000 compared to an A57 is that the A57 is a far more versatile and satisfying camera to use. Your mileage may vary, and you might wish to be part of the sheeple and be content with the average. The average today has the advantage of being part of a big protective flock.

Just throwing a few 'out of the box' ideas into the same old arguments that are wheeled out time after time to justify the 'safe' path.

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K E Hoffman
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Re: Don't trust all the hype - Try before buy!
In reply to Greg A A, 6 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

WOW! You are so smart.. it never occurred to me that in choosing my lenses I should consider FL, $$, Max Aperture, Quality etc. Thanks for sharing you daring an unique lens perspective..

Again.Slower for the lens snobs...

The mirrorless crowd gets vicious when their position is questioned.

Decide for yourself by making sure you get your hands on a A6000 and a D5300 before deciding to purchase. Bloviation from the Sony mirrorless crowd shouldn't be taken at face value. Of course I'm not very smart and I'm obviously a lens snob so you can't trust me either.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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f8 and be there

The only mirrorless camera I have is my 10 yr old daughters Nikon

J1  and I agree try them out and read some reviews so you know what to look at.

there is no camera perfect for everyone.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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Carsten Pauer 2
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Re: Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?
In reply to Jkim7, 6 months ago

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000,

Grab it.

Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it?

Yes, Lenses...

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MoreorLess
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Re: Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?
In reply to ultimitsu, 6 months ago

ultimitsu wrote:

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

Several reasons to pick D5300 over A6000. Though it is important to realise that they may not all apply to every person.

1, D5300 has access to a lot more first party native lenses, often at better prices. For example 50/1.8G, 85/1.8G, 35/1.8G.

2, D5300 has access to more high quality third party native mount lenses. for example Sigma 18-35/1.8, Tokina 11-16/2.8. These lenses do not have E-mount version.

3, D5300 has an OVF, zero lag and infinite refresh rate, cost no power to run. OVF is stil a lot better than EVF for tracking. to get the same zero lag tracking with A6000, you need a red dot sight mounted on the hotshoe.

I'm guessing for a lot of people this would be a key issue even if they don't want the extra lenses the Nikon would offer, consider the following lenses(going from B&H prices)...

Nikon 16-85mm - $300 cheaper than the Sony 16-70mm

Nikon 35mm 1.8 DX - $250 cheaper than the Sony 35mm 1.8

Nikon 18-200mm - $350 cheaper than Sony 18-200mm

Nikon 55-200mm - $100 cheaper than Sony 55-210mm

Then of course you have a lot of cheaper 3rd party lenses like the Tamron 17-50mm 2.8 or the Sigma 10-20mm, the latter is over $430 cheaper than the Sony 10-18mm.

With Sony especially I think theres a strong tendancey for them to price bodies competitive but price lenses very uncompetitive, mostly because there isn't any competition on the E-mount.

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ambercool
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Re: Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?
In reply to Jkim7, 6 months ago

I've said this probably a hundred thousand times from people that ask me in person about cameras.  Find out what type of photography you want to start out with and then the lens you want.  Ultimately, even if the body won't be 100% to your liking it should always be secondary.  Camera bodies evolve; lenses... not so much.

Lenses might be refreshed every 10 years.  So let's say you love macro, and you check out the lenses and love the Nikon offerings over the Sony.  Then you by some way get to try those lenses.  Or maybe you just love the Nikon lens better cause it's cool.  Then just go with the 5300.

Trust me, nothing is worst than using a lens that you don't "feel" is a gem to you.  The next worse thing that can happen is that all the cool things on a body is just not all there.  But in the end all you really need are the staple mode dials and a kick ass lens.  Although I do love fast and accurate auto-focus, to me it's only a luxury that I don't have to have alongside every manufacturer's features that now waste tons of trees in printing manuals on how to use them all.

I'm not claiming that I would get the 5300 over the 6000, but I just wanted to put it out there on how I would choose.

GL!

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D Cox
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Re: D5300 and legacy lenses
In reply to Leonard Migliore, 6 months ago

Leonard Migliore wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Also think about the ability to adapt lenses with shorter registrations than Nikon or Canon EOS like Leica M, Zeiss ZM and Canon FD as well as Nikon and Canon. If you're a legacy lens fan like I am, the D5300 won't be able to do as much although Nikon has an extensive number of classic Nikkors that are nice to use.

The D5300 is not very usable with older Nikkors. It won't autofocus with AF-D lenses and won't meter with AI lenses. If you're not willing to stick with AF-S lenses, it's just not a good choice.

The A6000 will meter with AI lenses.

I would say the Nikon only has more lenses available if you need autofocus on all your lenses.

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D Cox
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Re: Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?
In reply to ambercool, 6 months ago

ambercool wrote:

I've said this probably a hundred thousand times from people that ask me in person about cameras. Find out what type of photography you want to start out with and then the lens you want. Ultimately, even if the body won't be 100% to your liking it should always be secondary. Camera bodies evolve; lenses... not so much.

Lenses might be refreshed every 10 years. So let's say you love macro, and you check out the lenses and love the Nikon offerings over the Sony. Then you by some way get to try those lenses. Or maybe you just love the Nikon lens better cause it's cool. Then just go with the 5300.

In the special case of macro, there is little advantage in having auto-focus, so a Nikon lens will be just as good on the A6000 as on a Nikon camera. I use several Nikon lenses for macro on a Sony mirrorless -- the results are excellent. The PB-4 bellows also works very well indeed with a Sony mirrorless camera.

Good Live View and a tilting LCD are what you need for macro work.

Trust me, nothing is worst than using a lens that you don't "feel" is a gem to you. The next worse thing that can happen is that all the cool things on a body is just not all there. But in the end all you really need are the staple mode dials and a kick ass lens. Although I do love fast and accurate auto-focus, to me it's only a luxury that I don't have to have alongside every manufacturer's features that now waste tons of trees in printing manuals on how to use them all.

I'm not claiming that I would get the 5300 over the 6000, but I just wanted to put it out there on how I would choose.

GL!

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Aberaeron
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Re: D5300 and legacy lenses
In reply to D Cox, 6 months ago

D Cox wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Also think about the ability to adapt lenses with shorter registrations than Nikon or Canon EOS like Leica M, Zeiss ZM and Canon FD as well as Nikon and Canon. If you're a legacy lens fan like I am, the D5300 won't be able to do as much although Nikon has an extensive number of classic Nikkors that are nice to use.

The D5300 is not very usable with older Nikkors. It won't autofocus with AF-D lenses and won't meter with AI lenses. If you're not willing to stick with AF-S lenses, it's just not a good choice.

The A6000 will meter with AI lenses.

I would say the Nikon only has more lenses available if you need autofocus on all your lenses.

Not all Nikon lenses will autofocus on modern bodies though.

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Leonard Migliore
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That's a valid clarification
In reply to NowHearThis, 6 months ago

NowHearThis wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Also think about the ability to adapt lenses with shorter registrations than Nikon or Canon EOS like Leica M, Zeiss ZM and Canon FD as well as Nikon and Canon. If you're a legacy lens fan like I am, the D5300 won't be able to do as much although Nikon has an extensive number of classic Nikkors that are nice to use.

The D5300 is not very usable with older Nikkors. It won't autofocus with AF-D lenses and won't meter with AI lenses. If you're not willing to stick with AF-S lenses, it's just not a good choice.

Allow me to reword what you said that so the OP will understand it.

"If you're not willing to stick with any of the 110+ AF-S lenses (including ones from Sigma and Tamron) that have been produced, of which more than 90 are still available, it's just not a good choice."

That said, if the OP can afford it, A6000 + 16-70/4 Zeiss is one sweet, small setup.

I was responding to stevo23's reference to legacy lenses. It is, as you note, not a real problem if you're using the camera with modern lenses and not a reason to downgrade the D5300.

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Leonard Migliore

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peevee1
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Re: Any Reason to get D5300 over Sony A6000?
In reply to Jkim7, 6 months ago

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

Availability of native 70-200/2.8 maybe... Sony never developed a decent system for their APS-C E-mount, and by now it is seems abandoned in favor of FE.

Built-in GPS is a nice feature.

Other than that, a6000+16-50 is so much better (especially for travel than d5300+18-55)...

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Greg A A
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Proceed with caution
In reply to Jkim7, 6 months ago

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

There's a reason why so many people buy DSLRs at a ratio of 10 to 1 over mirrorless. We have a very vocal minority of mirrorless photographers here that are determined to win as many as possible over to mirrorless. Mirrorless sales have been tanking due to competition from cell phones and compacts at one end and DSLRs at the other end. Mirrorless is the only option for camera companies that can't compete with Canon and Nikon head on in the DSLR market.

Proceed at your own caution as you are getting biased advice here.

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f8 and be there

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neil holmes
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technically no
In reply to D Cox, 6 months ago

D Cox wrote:

Leonard Migliore wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Also think about the ability to adapt lenses with shorter registrations than Nikon or Canon EOS like Leica M, Zeiss ZM and Canon FD as well as Nikon and Canon. If you're a legacy lens fan like I am, the D5300 won't be able to do as much although Nikon has an extensive number of classic Nikkors that are nice to use.

The D5300 is not very usable with older Nikkors. It won't autofocus with AF-D lenses and won't meter with AI lenses. If you're not willing to stick with AF-S lenses, it's just not a good choice.

The A6000 will meter with AI lenses.

I would say the Nikon only has more lenses available if you need autofocus on all your lenses.

it needs glassless adapters but the Sony can AF Canon EF, Sony/MInolta , Contax G as well as native E/FE.

AF with some of those is slow but others is as fast as natively I think.....you have to add the cost of the adapters but in fact the Sony E mount has probably MORE lenses that can AF than any other.

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K E Hoffman
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Re: Proceed with caution
In reply to Greg A A, 6 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

There's a reason why so many people buy DSLRs at a ratio of 10 to 1 over mirrorless. We have a very vocal minority of mirrorless photographers here that are determined to win as many as possible over to mirrorless. Mirrorless sales have been tanking due to competition from cell phones and compacts at one end and DSLRs at the other end. Mirrorless is the only option for camera companies that can't compete with Canon and Nikon head on in the DSLR market.

Proceed at your own caution as you are getting biased advice here.

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f8 and be there

I would disagree with this analysis mostly because the data is incorrect behind it.   Cell phones and economics are forcing changes in the camera market at all levels.    P&S buyers aren't buying them if they have camera on phone  drop 45% in sales.  Some P&S and low end sales have been going to Mirrorless but the market exploded so fast over just over 2 years.. that that bubble had to pop just a bit.

But also part of that is that the sensors going into $500 to $1000 cell phones (that only cost buyer $99-$199 are better than the $100-$200 P&S and the control features are better.  My Lumia 928 has more control options than any low end P&S.. BUT what is going on now is the celluar carriers are tired of buying cameras for people.. so are moving to the plan price and the monthly payment for the camera being separate.. So the price if the phone will be exposed to the user more.. will that change how they buy.. I don't know.

But the 25% drop I mirrorless is pretty close to the 19% drop in DSLRs..   Part of this is that the MP explosion is over.. we have hit all the MP most people need.  So people feel less need to upgrade every 12-18 months.

Even in Sony land.. its not more MP we are looking for in the next DSLTs.. its maybe going mirroless in a DSLR style camera.. butter AF . Better IQ  etc.

Its going to be hard for companies that had NAME and MORE MP as their yearly upgrade message to sell that.

And in the end the digital camera market is maturing and the tech is hit a level that will no longer drive up renewals every year.

Of the above statement...

Most incorrect is the idea that DSLR outsell Mirror less 10:1 /  DSLR shoots often live in a bubble where they are the universe when it comes to cameras.

The ratio is 4:1     What will be interesting to see is if Mirrorless losing its major handicap quality fast AF changes that at all.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

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neil holmes
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Re: Proceed with caution
In reply to Greg A A, 6 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

There's a reason why so many people buy DSLRs at a ratio of 10 to 1 over mirrorless. We have a very vocal minority of mirrorless photographers here that are determined to win as many as possible over to mirrorless.

Funny then that you have more posts in this thread than anyone.

Mirrorless sales have been tanking due to competition from cell phones and compacts at one end and DSLRs at the other end. Mirrorless is the only option for camera companies that can't compete with Canon and Nikon head on in the DSLR market.

Digital is the only option over film for companies that can not compete with Kodak, AGFA and the like. (yay Fujifilm)

Proceed at your own caution as you are getting biased advice here.

So very very true.

Buy on what specs a camera has that meet your needs ....no matter if it is mirrored or not....for ME it is now not.....others will differ.

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peevee1
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Re: Proceed with caution
In reply to Greg A A, 6 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

There's a reason why so many people buy DSLRs at a ratio of 10 to 1 over mirrorless.

...which is strong brands and distribution networks which Nikon and especially Canon have, while not having even half-decent mirrorless offers.

Rename A6000 or E-M10 "Canon" and put in in every store some Rebel junk is in, and people will buy it in millions.

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Greg A A
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Non-reflex sales data - the rest of the story ...
In reply to K E Hoffman, 6 months ago

K E Hoffman wrote:

Greg A A wrote:

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

There's a reason why so many people buy DSLRs at a ratio of 10 to 1 over mirrorless. We have a very vocal minority of mirrorless photographers here that are determined to win as many as possible over to mirrorless. Mirrorless sales have been tanking due to competition from cell phones and compacts at one end and DSLRs at the other end. Mirrorless is the only option for camera companies that can't compete with Canon and Nikon head on in the DSLR market.

Proceed at your own caution as you are getting biased advice here.

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f8 and be there

I would disagree with this analysis mostly because the data is incorrect behind it.

My data is correct for the Americas. It was an error was not to properly qualify the statistics. Looking deeper into the CIPA data your graph is misleading as it lumps non-EVF into the mirrorless category. This thread has been about mirrorless EVF vs OVF. The CIPA data used in your graph includes all non reflex ILCs including those without a rangefinder. The following is a direct quote from CIPA:

" "Non-Reflex" includes cameras such as so-called mirrorless cameras, compact system cameras, rangefinder cameras with interchangeable lens and interchangeable unit system cameras, and similar cameras." - CIPA Production/Shipment Data

This includes all the micro 4/3 mount cameras without viewfinders such as Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1, all the other interchangeable lens cameras such as Samsung NX mini, Fujifilm mounts such as X-A1 ...

When you lump in all the ILCs without viewfinders into the EVFs you get the 4 to 1 ratio that your graph illustrates. This thread is about a mirrorless EVF vs DSLR, not cameras without viewfinders. It would be fair to say that a camera without a viewfinder is not in the same category as a D5300 or A6000, thus hardly relevant to this discussion. We don't have the numbers breakdown to know what the exact ratio is when it comes to EVF vs OVF ILCs.

13,635,101 for single lens reflex (worldwide)
3,182,694 for non-reflex which includes more than mirrorless as explained in the CIPA statement (worldwide)
_____________________________________________

For the Americas the ratio of DSLR to non-reflex sales is approximately 9 to 1, including all the non-veiwfinder ILC cameras. Estimate: If you subtract out the ILCs without viewfinders then the 10 to 1 number is probably understated.

3,617,708 for single lens reflex (Americas)
406,816 for non-reflex (Americas)
_____________________________________________

For Europe the ratio of DSLR to non-reflex sales is approximately 7 to 1, including all the non-viewfinder ILC cameras. Estimate: Subtract out those cameras without viewfinders and you will get close to the 10 to 1 number.

4,763,175 for single lens reflex (Europe)
671,183 for non-reflex (Europe)
______________________________________________

The largest non-reflex interest is coming from Japan, followed by the rest of Asia. Note that Japan and Asia in total are smaller sales than Europe and the Americas.

Cell phones and economics are forcing changes in the camera market at all levels. P&S buyers aren't buying them if they have camera on phone drop 45% in sales. Some P&S and low end sales have been going to Mirrorless but the market exploded so fast over just over 2 years.. that that bubble had to pop just a bit.

In case you didn't read this, the linked article explains some of the reasons why mirrorless sales are suffering more than DSLR sales.

From Business Insider The Last, Best Hope For A Digital Camera Rebound Is Failing

Sony is under some financial stress so there could be some limit to how long they can poor R&D investment into cameras. See this article:

Moody's Cuts Sony Bond Rating to 'Junk'

This link is better as no subscription is required for the whole article:

Moody’s Cuts Rating on Sony to Junk -NY Times

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K E Hoffman
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Re: Non-reflex sales data - the rest of the story ...
In reply to Greg A A, 6 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

Greg A A wrote:

Jkim7 wrote:

Hey guys,

I'm pretty set on getting an A6000, and from what I understand mirror less has pretty much caught up with DSLRs. Especially with the AF of the A6000, wouldn't an A6000 be just as good as a D5300? Is there any reason why I should prefer a D5300 over it? It's just that I still see so many people buy t5i's and D5300s and entry level APS-C DSLRs.

There's a reason why so many people buy DSLRs at a ratio of 10 to 1 over mirrorless. We have a very vocal minority of mirrorless photographers here that are determined to win as many as possible over to mirrorless. Mirrorless sales have been tanking due to competition from cell phones and compacts at one end and DSLRs at the other end. Mirrorless is the only option for camera companies that can't compete with Canon and Nikon head on in the DSLR market.

Proceed at your own caution as you are getting biased advice here.

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f8 and be there

I would disagree with this analysis mostly because the data is incorrect behind it.

My data is correct for the Americas. It was an error was not to properly qualify the statistics. Looking deeper into the CIPA data your graph is misleading as it lumps non-EVF into the mirrorless category. This thread has been about mirrorless EVF vs OVF. The CIPA data used in your graph includes all non reflex ILCs including those without a rangefinder. The following is a direct quote from CIPA:

" "Non-Reflex" includes cameras such as so-called mirrorless cameras, compact system cameras, rangefinder cameras with interchangeable lens and interchangeable unit system cameras, and similar cameras." - CIPA Production/Shipment Data

This includes all the micro 4/3 mount cameras without viewfinders such as Panasonic Lumix DMC-GM1, all the other interchangeable lens cameras such as Samsung NX mini, Fujifilm mounts such as X-A1 ...

When you lump in all the ILCs without viewfinders into the EVFs you get the 4 to 1 ratio that your graph illustrates. This thread is about a mirrorless EVF vs DSLR, not cameras without viewfinders. It would be fair to say that a camera without a viewfinder is not in the same category as a D5300 or A6000, thus hardly relevant to this discussion. We don't have the numbers breakdown to know what the exact ratio is when it comes to EVF vs OVF ILCs.

13,635,101 for single lens reflex (worldwide)
3,182,694 for non-reflex which includes more than mirrorless as explained in the CIPA statement (worldwide)
_____________________________________________

For the Americas the ratio of DSLR to non-reflex sales is approximately 9 to 1, including all the non-veiwfinder ILC cameras. Estimate: If you subtract out the ILCs without viewfinders then the 10 to 1 number is probably understated.

3,617,708 for single lens reflex (Americas)
406,816 for non-reflex (Americas)
_____________________________________________

For Europe the ratio of DSLR to non-reflex sales is approximately 7 to 1, including all the non-viewfinder ILC cameras. Estimate: Subtract out those cameras without viewfinders and you will get close to the 10 to 1 number.

4,763,175 for single lens reflex (Europe)
671,183 for non-reflex (Europe)
______________________________________________

The largest non-reflex interest is coming from Japan, followed by the rest of Asia. Note that Japan and Asia in total are smaller sales than Europe and the Americas.

Cell phones and economics are forcing changes in the camera market at all levels. P&S buyers aren't buying them if they have camera on phone drop 45% in sales. Some P&S and low end sales have been going to Mirrorless but the market exploded so fast over just over 2 years.. that that bubble had to pop just a bit.

In case you didn't read this, the linked article explains some of the reasons why mirrorless sales are suffering more than DSLR sales.

From Business Insider The Last, Best Hope For A Digital Camera Rebound Is Failing

Sony is under some financial stress so there could be some limit to how long they can poor R&D investment into cameras. See this article:

Moody's Cuts Sony Bond Rating to 'Junk'

This link is better as no subscription is required for the whole article:

Moody’s Cuts Rating on Sony to Junk -NY Times

1) This post illustrates how one can ring fence and slice stats to say what you want.  Mirrorless with EVF on the left vs DLS with Tilt Screen Live view and Red bodies sold on Tuesday etc etc.  Having looked the a NEX=6 a very popular Mirrorless with an EVF.. EVF is not very good.. so how will people use it?  Same as one without an EVF.. and this whole Mirrorless naming will have change. as mirrors on most cameras will be going away in the next few years.

I know "never will a real photographer use an EVF" never will they use Autofocus, never will they go 100% digital and leave film etc.

2) Sony is doing restructuring.. Junk is an investment term.. has to do with return.. not with company viability.. Some of the same articles listed status as Stable.. just not investment grade at the institutional level.  Part of this restructuring is more emphasis on the imaging business.

Last year the same people saying mirrorless is failing were saying the end of DLSRS ... markets change Mirrorless is just normalizing as is digital cameras.. in Film years camera were current for years.. now that sensors are pretty much as good as most people need there is no need to upgrade every 1-2  years.

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

 K E Hoffman's gear list:K E Hoffman's gear list
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Greg A A
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A great marketing line - but believe it all?
In reply to K E Hoffman, 6 months ago

K E Hoffman wrote:

I know "never will a real photographer use an EVF" never will they use Autofocus, never will they go 100% digital and leave film etc.

What a joke... pure marketing hyperbole. This is a good example of using a logical fallacy to discredit another person in a debate. There is no basis in associating people that don't like EVFs to curmudgeons that that dislike digital or those wouldn't use autofocus. Many people that like DSLRs like good flexible fast autofocus systems. While the Sony claims leading AF speed this is yet to be proven and hardly the most important aspect for most users of a A6000 or D5300.

2) Sony is doing restructuring.. Junk is an investment term.. has to do with return

Incomplete explaination - junk status has to do with the risk associated with loaning a company money, in other words the risk of not getting all of your money back when you lend it to them.

.. not with company viability.. Some of the same articles listed status as Stable.. just not investment grade at the institutional level. Part of this restructuring is more emphasis on the imaging business.

A junk bond is a high yield bond due to it's high risk. Junk bonds are often bundled and purchased by institutional investors, but sometimes one pays the price when the risk doesn't pan out. With just released news that Japan's industrial output tumbled 2.3% in February from January I wouldn't be making any bets on a junk bond in Japan (but that's just me, consult your investment adviser before making any investments).

Kudos on your marketing savy, of course that's your job. Seeing you in action I am very cautious about believing everything you say. Good marketing mixes enough facts in with other questionable rhetoric and FUD (fear, doubt and uncertainty) to convince others of their point. You may be very good at marketing, but that doesn't mean we should take your pitch hook line and sinker.

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f8 and be there

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stevo23
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Re: D5300 and legacy lenses
In reply to Leonard Migliore, 6 months ago

Leonard Migliore wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Also think about the ability to adapt lenses with shorter registrations than Nikon or Canon EOS like Leica M, Zeiss ZM and Canon FD as well as Nikon and Canon. If you're a legacy lens fan like I am, the D5300 won't be able to do as much although Nikon has an extensive number of classic Nikkors that are nice to use.

The D5300 is not very usable with older Nikkors. It won't autofocus with AF-D lenses and won't meter with AI lenses. If you're not willing to stick with AF-S lenses, it's just not a good choice.

Ah - I didn't think about that.

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K E Hoffman
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Re: A great marketing line - but believe it all?
In reply to Greg A A, 6 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

K E Hoffman wrote:

I know "never will a real photographer use an EVF" never will they use Autofocus, never will they go 100% digital and leave film etc.

What a joke... pure marketing hyperbole. This is a good example of using a logical fallacy to discredit another person in a debate. There is no basis in associating people that don't like EVFs to curmudgeons that that dislike digital or those wouldn't use autofocus. Many people that like DSLRs like good flexible fast autofocus systems. While the Sony claims leading AF speed this is yet to be proven and hardly the most important aspect for most users of a A6000 or D5300.

Total lack of historical perspective.. WOW... When Minolta introduce AF that was the argument for film SLRs you seriously didn't think I was talking about DSLRs I hope.. There are those that always change slower when there is a major shift. OVF is probably the oldest piece of technology left on the camera. Shutters have changes from cloth to metal leaf, we have gone from Film to Digital and through it all has been the slappy mirror and the OVF.

So of course there will be resistance.. I resisted it for two years.. missed out shooting an amazing camera so I can see bot sides.. An assumption that YOU are somehow unable to adopt AF or Digital in a 2014 discussion is your own assumption..

2) Sony is doing restructuring.. Junk is an investment term.. has to do with return

Incomplete explaination - junk status has to do with the risk associated with loaning a company money, in other words the risk of not getting all of your money back when you lend it to them.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/j/junkbond.asp yes sort of the difference between investing in IBM stock in 1990 and Apple Stock in 1990s

http://beta.slashdot.org/story/73852

.. not with company viability.. Some of the same articles listed status as Stable.. just not investment grade at the institutional level. Part of this restructuring is more emphasis on the imaging business.

A junk bond is a high yield bond due to it's high risk. Junk bonds are often bundled and purchased by institutional investors, but sometimes one pays the price when the risk doesn't pan out. With just released news that Japan's industrial output tumbled 2.3% in February from January I wouldn't be making any bets on a junk bond in Japan (but that's just me, consult your investment adviser before making any investments).

Kudos on your marketing savy, of course that's your job. Seeing you in action I am very cautious about believing everything you say. Good marketing mixes enough facts in with other questionable rhetoric and FUD (fear, doubt and uncertainty) to convince others of their point. You may be very good at marketing, but that doesn't mean we should take your pitch hook line and sinker.

That was about discrediting someone.. There is plenty marketing and personal POV in your post too..

Why not just read it for real

"The stable outlook is based on our expectations that the company's overall credit profile will slowly improve. Operating margins are expected to remain in the 0.5% -1.0% range for the next 12 months. Adjusted Debt to EBITDA will decline over time but remain above 4.5x. "

https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys-downgrades-Sonys-rating-to-Ba1Not-Prime-outlook-stable--PR_291264

As you read this.. realize Sony has already moved to sell off the PCs and Spin off the TVs (to make it easier to partner etc)

There are problems in the industry.. This next quote alone might be used to scare people off choosing a camera

"The company posted a 41 percent drop in operating profit to 21.9 billion yen ($222 million) for the six months ended September, saying overseas demand for pricy single-lens reflex models had remained depressed."

Pretty bad.. and only last fall and Nikon...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/07/nikon-earnings-idUSL3N0IR39F20131107?type=companyNews

In this day find it fascinating that users of good Nikon and Canon gear and it is good gear.. are so unable to create affirmative endorsements for said professional gear that they end up trying to trash another company with tangential and often transient financial arguments or pedantic arguments about lens counts. Meaning "My brand has more lenses than yours" is easy.. talking about what is not possible in another lens set up is bad. Because even on Nikon and Canon a small % of the giant collection covers probably 80% of their customer base's use.

I think part of the problem is that in general sensors have come to a place that most people can't tell the difference APC to APC and FF to FF.. and one needs more than a Brand name to sell a camera.. Sell me a 5DMKIII vs a Sony A99 just based on features..

5DMKIII no 60P video, no ability to tilt the screen.. lower res.. lower DXO sensor scores. higher price

You are left with

  • Its a Canon
  • Canon has more lenses
  • It has the same OVF technology cameras have had for decades (that is disabled when shooting live from the sensor both still and video
  • and it has a half stop better high ISO noise performance

Its a defensive list.. if an established brand vs an technology aggressive company taking some good risks.. I mean really $3000 for a camera model line that doesn't do 60P video and has no ability to articulate the back LCD to help in shooting creative angles.

Its a Canon sells a ton of cameras.. it doesn't move the technology forward.

If you want comfortable.. predictable technology with a large user base to affirm your choice go Canon.. its good gear...

But it is not "sexy" anymore.. How many "Camera of the Year" awards has Canon had in the last 8 years?

  • 2006 Sony A100
  • 2007 Nikon D300
  • 2008 Panasonic Lumix DMC-G1
  • 2009 Nikon D3x
  • 2010 Sony A55
  • 2011 Sony NEX-5
  • 2012 Canon 5dMKII *
  • 2013 Sony A7R

*And in the end the one Canon award was for best compromise...

"Our testing had a lot to do with it. Canon’s 22.3MP EOS 5D Mark III gained just 1.2MP over its predecessor, the still-current Mark II, but that was sufficient for overall Excellent image quality: resolution at 2750 lines per picture height, color accuracy at a Delta E of 6.9, and stellar noise suppression. To be sure, its resolution was not quite a home run among the finalists: The Sony A99 squeaked past it incrementally, and the Nikon D800 beat it by a country mile. But we felt strongly that the Canon produced the best balance across all imaging factors, "

Steady and predictable in design, never upsetting the users with anything too different is a solid business model and it works well when you are #1 as long as some doesn't so something really different that people want more than predictable.

But it also explains the lack of "Canon is better at", or "Canon is the only" vs Sony has bad Bond rating etc.

Its good gear learn how to back it affirmatively, not just in a negative defensive POV.

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f8 and be there

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K.E.H. >> Shooting between raindrops in WA<<
Don't Panic!.. these are just opinions... go take some pictures..

 K E Hoffman's gear list:K E Hoffman's gear list
Canon EOS 450D Sony SLT-A77 Nikon 1 J1 Sony a77 II Sony 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 G SSM +7 more
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