Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?

Started 8 months ago | Questions
Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Bart Hickman, 8 months ago

Bart Hickman wrote:

wsalopek wrote:

I agree...I am just trying to understand the limits of the various "features" of the Nex-6, and how they might affect a purchase decision...in this case, a telephoto/zoom lens.

Thanks.

My point is, if you shoot RAW, the clear zoom is irrelevant in your decision. The optical sharpness is more important. If you go for the a6000, I think the 55-210 will still have enough optical sharpness at F/7.1 or F/8 to really have about 25% more reach with the higher pixel count. The 18-200 might not be as sharp (just guessing--I don't know.)

I agree with you about CIZ being irrelevant to RAW shooters. Even for those who get excited by it, it doesn't add any extra detail, unlike optical zoom.

I have the SEL18200 and it's pretty sharp, but as I don't have the 55-210, it's hard for me to say which is better at the telephoto end. Obviously the 18-200 is better at the wide end. However, I see to be getting more flare with it than I used to, perhaps because of the dust that's got in.

Here's a set of recent hummingbird pics, many cropped quite fiercely (so equivalent to CIZ), taken with the SEL18200: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/sets/72157639887091796/

And here's another cropped example I took in Panama, which tested the lens's reach to the max: https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/11928783935/in/set-72157639727636455

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areichow
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 8 months ago

I doubt the zoom ring on A mount lenses will control CIZ, unless they're power zooms like the 16-50mm. The 18-55mm's zoom ring certainly won't control CIZ, being a mechanical zoom rather than a power zoom.

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to areichow, 8 months ago

areichow wrote:

I doubt the zoom ring on A mount lenses will control CIZ, unless they're power zooms like the 16-50mm. The 18-55mm's zoom ring certainly won't control CIZ, being a mechanical zoom rather than a power zoom.

Yes, if it's a mechanical zoom, with a hard stop, it obviously won't control any of the digital zooms. The rear dial will be needed for that.

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 8 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Clear Zoom is not a new concept. Even the very first M43 camera ever, the much-loved Panasonic G1 had it. I can set up my G1 with let's say, normal aperture priority without CZ, and with CZ (which is 2X) on Full Auto on the mode dial. Then I simply jog from AP to Auto and back as needs be. Pretty handy.

The quality of CZ photos with that cam was excellent, too.

CIZ is not new on Sony cameras, either -- it's been around for several years. But why isn't it just called digital zoom, as that's all it is? Obviously the interpolation is better when the upscaling is less (ie, <4:1 pixels), but it's just a modified upscaling algorithm. What I don't understand is why people who use CIZ don't just use smaller JPEG sizes, with smart zooming? That way, you don't get the damaging fake interpolated pixels added.

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

Precision Digital zoom: Enlarges all the image sizes by the total zoom scale of approximately 64x, including the optical 16x. However, note that the image quality deteriorates when the optical zoom scale is exceeded."

http://community.sony.com/t5/Cybershot-Cameras/Clear-Image-Zoom-vs-Precision-Digital-Zoom-what-s-the-difference/td-p/145265

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 8 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

areichow wrote:

I doubt the zoom ring on A mount lenses will control CIZ, unless they're power zooms like the 16-50mm. The 18-55mm's zoom ring certainly won't control CIZ, being a mechanical zoom rather than a power zoom.

Yes, if it's a mechanical zoom, with a hard stop, it obviously won't control any of the digital zooms. The rear dial will be needed for that.

My experience with Clear Optical Zoom is that it will work with any lens, even manual lenses.

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

areichow wrote:

I doubt the zoom ring on A mount lenses will control CIZ, unless they're power zooms like the 16-50mm. The 18-55mm's zoom ring certainly won't control CIZ, being a mechanical zoom rather than a power zoom.

Yes, if it's a mechanical zoom, with a hard stop, it obviously won't control any of the digital zooms. The rear dial will be needed for that.

My experience with Clear Optical Zoom is that it will work with any lens, even manual lenses.

What is "Clear Optical Zoom"? I've not heard of it before. How does it differ from optical zoom? It can't be CIZ, as that's a digital zoom and nothing to do with the optical zoom that a lens offers.

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Clear Zoom is not a new concept. Even the very first M43 camera ever, the much-loved Panasonic G1 had it. I can set up my G1 with let's say, normal aperture priority without CZ, and with CZ (which is 2X) on Full Auto on the mode dial. Then I simply jog from AP to Auto and back as needs be. Pretty handy.

The quality of CZ photos with that cam was excellent, too.

CIZ is not new on Sony cameras, either -- it's been around for several years. But why isn't it just called digital zoom, as that's all it is? Obviously the interpolation is better when the upscaling is less (ie, <4:1 pixels), but it's just a modified upscaling algorithm. What I don't understand is why people who use CIZ don't just use smaller JPEG sizes, with smart zooming? That way, you don't get the damaging fake interpolated pixels added.

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

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GaryW
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 8 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

...

CIZ is not new on Sony cameras, either -- it's been around for several years. But why isn't it just called digital zoom, as that's all it is? Obviously the interpolation is better when the upscaling is less (ie, <4:1 pixels), but it's just a modified upscaling algorithm. What I don't understand is why people who use CIZ don't just use smaller JPEG sizes, with smart zooming? That way, you don't get the damaging fake interpolated pixels added.

When you're not zooming, won't it still be small?  More settings to switch out. It's too bad that the digital zooming can't do this automatically.

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

Bicubic applies a formula, while CIZ pattern matches. You can read the difference in the blurbs above. We aren't going to find out details as it's proprietary.  Perhaps it uses even more pixels to establish a pattern. Who knows?

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Gary W.

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to GaryW, 8 months ago

GaryW wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

Bicubic applies a formula, while CIZ pattern matches. You can read the difference in the blurbs above. We aren't going to find out details as it's proprietary. Perhaps it uses even more pixels to establish a pattern. Who knows?

OK, I did another test, this time using remote controls as some people seem to think that's a better test of an extended zoom than shooting distant buildings. Again, both shots were on a tripod, OSS turned off, properly focused, same camera settings, low ISO, and these are 100% centre crops. The RAW has again been upsampled, using bicubic sharper in DxO:

100% centre crop, but based on which method?

100% centre crop, but based on which method?

So, I have two questions:

  1. Do you see any significant differences between these images that suggests that CIZ has a secret, superior, pattern-based algorithm compared to boring old bicubic, that allows it to extract extra details or show smoother images?
  2. And if you do, which do you prefer?
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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Bart Hickman, 8 months ago

So, the question is un-answered?

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 8 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

areichow wrote:

I doubt the zoom ring on A mount lenses will control CIZ, unless they're power zooms like the 16-50mm. The 18-55mm's zoom ring certainly won't control CIZ, being a mechanical zoom rather than a power zoom.

Yes, if it's a mechanical zoom, with a hard stop, it obviously won't control any of the digital zooms. The rear dial will be needed for that.

My experience with Clear Optical Zoom is that it will work with any lens, even manual lenses.

What is "Clear Optical Zoom"? I've not heard of it before. How does it differ from optical zoom? It can't be CIZ, as that's a digital zoom and nothing to do with the optical zoom that a lens offers.

My mistake, I meant to say Clear Image Zoom.

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 8 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

GaryW wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

Bicubic applies a formula, while CIZ pattern matches. You can read the difference in the blurbs above. We aren't going to find out details as it's proprietary. Perhaps it uses even more pixels to establish a pattern. Who knows?

OK, I did another test, this time using remote controls as some people seem to think that's a better test of an extended zoom than shooting distant buildings. Again, both shots were on a tripod, OSS turned off, properly focused, same camera settings, low ISO, and these are 100% centre crops. The RAW has again been upsampled, using bicubic sharper in DxO:

So, I have two questions:

  1. Do you see any significant differences between these images that suggests that CIZ has a secret, superior, pattern-based algorithm compared to boring old bicubic, that allows it to extract extra details or show smoother images?
  2. And if you do, which do you prefer?

I delved, for more clarification:

"The 'Clear Image Zoom' function relies on Sony's rather clumsily-named 'By Pixel Super Resolution' algorithms to upsample images to a higher resolution than that at which they were captured. In essence, it's a form of digital zoom, interpolating data from that on hand to fill in the blanks. According to Sony, Clear Image Zoom offers better results than competing digital zoom techniques, though, because it uses pattern matching techniques to improve the quality of the guessed data. Clear Image Zoom functions in steps of 0.1x, up to a maximum of 2x zoom beyond the actual focal length of the image, and Sony claims that the image quality even at 2x Clear Image Zoom will be "nearly equivalent" to that shot with an optical zoom at the same equivalent focal length."
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-nex-f3/sony-nex-f3A.HTM

===================

Q?
"Does zooming in CIZ (in Jpeg ExtraFine) bring better results than traditional cropping in RAW?"
A:
"All CIZ is doing is cropping the shot. There is no advantage in doing it in camera vs cropping later. You are reducing the mp as you crop (I think its 14mp on 50mm) so either way you are going to get the same result. Doing in camera gives you a JPEG while doing it separately gives you the ability to at least do some post of the file. You can also access the other virtual focal lengths from 35mm to anything...
The only advantage, maybe, of using CIZ in jpeg is that you can 'see' the FOV of what you are taking a photo of. All else is just a crop."
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=19888

===================

RX1 -Using the "Clear Image Zoom" (must be similar)
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3509725

Steve

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

GaryW wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

Bicubic applies a formula, while CIZ pattern matches. You can read the difference in the blurbs above. We aren't going to find out details as it's proprietary. Perhaps it uses even more pixels to establish a pattern. Who knows?

OK, I did another test, this time using remote controls as some people seem to think that's a better test of an extended zoom than shooting distant buildings. Again, both shots were on a tripod, OSS turned off, properly focused, same camera settings, low ISO, and these are 100% centre crops. The RAW has again been upsampled, using bicubic sharper in DxO:

So, I have two questions:

  1. Do you see any significant differences between these images that suggests that CIZ has a secret, superior, pattern-based algorithm compared to boring old bicubic, that allows it to extract extra details or show smoother images?
  2. And if you do, which do you prefer?

I delved, for more clarification:

"The 'Clear Image Zoom' function relies on Sony's rather clumsily-named 'By Pixel Super Resolution' algorithms to upsample images to a higher resolution than that at which they were captured. In essence, it's a form of digital zoom, interpolating data from that on hand to fill in the blanks. According to Sony, Clear Image Zoom offers better results than competing digital zoom techniques, though, because it uses pattern matching techniques to improve the quality of the guessed data. Clear Image Zoom functions in steps of 0.1x, up to a maximum of 2x zoom beyond the actual focal length of the image, and Sony claims that the image quality even at 2x Clear Image Zoom will be "nearly equivalent" to that shot with an optical zoom at the same equivalent focal length."
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-nex-f3/sony-nex-f3A.HTM

===================

Q?
"Does zooming in CIZ (in Jpeg ExtraFine) bring better results than traditional cropping in RAW?"
A:
"All CIZ is doing is cropping the shot. There is no advantage in doing it in camera vs cropping later. You are reducing the mp as you crop (I think its 14mp on 50mm) so either way you are going to get the same result. Doing in camera gives you a JPEG while doing it separately gives you the ability to at least do some post of the file. You can also access the other virtual focal lengths from 35mm to anything...
The only advantage, maybe, of using CIZ in jpeg is that you can 'see' the FOV of what you are taking a photo of. All else is just a crop."
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=19888

There's some interesting comments in that thread.

Do you have a preference between the two remote control crops I posted above?

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 8 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

GaryW wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

Bicubic applies a formula, while CIZ pattern matches. You can read the difference in the blurbs above. We aren't going to find out details as it's proprietary. Perhaps it uses even more pixels to establish a pattern. Who knows?

OK, I did another test, this time using remote controls as some people seem to think that's a better test of an extended zoom than shooting distant buildings. Again, both shots were on a tripod, OSS turned off, properly focused, same camera settings, low ISO, and these are 100% centre crops. The RAW has again been upsampled, using bicubic sharper in DxO:

So, I have two questions:

  1. Do you see any significant differences between these images that suggests that CIZ has a secret, superior, pattern-based algorithm compared to boring old bicubic, that allows it to extract extra details or show smoother images?
  2. And if you do, which do you prefer?

I delved, for more clarification:

"The 'Clear Image Zoom' function relies on Sony's rather clumsily-named 'By Pixel Super Resolution' algorithms to upsample images to a higher resolution than that at which they were captured. In essence, it's a form of digital zoom, interpolating data from that on hand to fill in the blanks. According to Sony, Clear Image Zoom offers better results than competing digital zoom techniques, though, because it uses pattern matching techniques to improve the quality of the guessed data. Clear Image Zoom functions in steps of 0.1x, up to a maximum of 2x zoom beyond the actual focal length of the image, and Sony claims that the image quality even at 2x Clear Image Zoom will be "nearly equivalent" to that shot with an optical zoom at the same equivalent focal length."
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-nex-f3/sony-nex-f3A.HTM

===================

Q?
"Does zooming in CIZ (in Jpeg ExtraFine) bring better results than traditional cropping in RAW?"
A:
"All CIZ is doing is cropping the shot. There is no advantage in doing it in camera vs cropping later. You are reducing the mp as you crop (I think its 14mp on 50mm) so either way you are going to get the same result. Doing in camera gives you a JPEG while doing it separately gives you the ability to at least do some post of the file. You can also access the other virtual focal lengths from 35mm to anything...
The only advantage, maybe, of using CIZ in jpeg is that you can 'see' the FOV of what you are taking a photo of. All else is just a crop."
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=19888

There's some interesting comments in that thread.

Do you have a preference between the two remote control crops I posted above?

Not at this time. Soon spring will come and I will dig out my camera gear, etc. With the new information, do you have any more insights or preferences?

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

GaryW wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

captura wrote:

Because they're no the same thing.
I refer you to this brief explanation from Sony:

"Below are the definitions of optical zoom, clear image digital zoom and Precision Digital zoom. In short for the best image quality Clear Image digital zoom has a database of patterns it can refer back to and create new pixels for a better quality image than Precision Digital zoom which is basically just crops in.

Optical zoom: true zoom, by using optical zoom quality remains the same and the full resolution of the camera can be used on the zoomed image.

Clear Image Digital Zoom: the processor compares patterns found in adjacent pixels and creates new pixels to match selected patterns, resulting in more realistic, higher quality images

And how, exactly is that different to bicubic resampling ("With bicubic resampling, first the coordinate of each pixel in the output map is determined; then the values of 16 surrounding pixels of the input map are used to calculate an interpolated value for each pixel in the output map”)?

Bicubic applies a formula, while CIZ pattern matches. You can read the difference in the blurbs above. We aren't going to find out details as it's proprietary. Perhaps it uses even more pixels to establish a pattern. Who knows?

OK, I did another test, this time using remote controls as some people seem to think that's a better test of an extended zoom than shooting distant buildings. Again, both shots were on a tripod, OSS turned off, properly focused, same camera settings, low ISO, and these are 100% centre crops. The RAW has again been upsampled, using bicubic sharper in DxO:

So, I have two questions:

  1. Do you see any significant differences between these images that suggests that CIZ has a secret, superior, pattern-based algorithm compared to boring old bicubic, that allows it to extract extra details or show smoother images?
  2. And if you do, which do you prefer?

I delved, for more clarification:

"The 'Clear Image Zoom' function relies on Sony's rather clumsily-named 'By Pixel Super Resolution' algorithms to upsample images to a higher resolution than that at which they were captured. In essence, it's a form of digital zoom, interpolating data from that on hand to fill in the blanks. According to Sony, Clear Image Zoom offers better results than competing digital zoom techniques, though, because it uses pattern matching techniques to improve the quality of the guessed data. Clear Image Zoom functions in steps of 0.1x, up to a maximum of 2x zoom beyond the actual focal length of the image, and Sony claims that the image quality even at 2x Clear Image Zoom will be "nearly equivalent" to that shot with an optical zoom at the same equivalent focal length."
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-nex-f3/sony-nex-f3A.HTM

===================

Q?
"Does zooming in CIZ (in Jpeg ExtraFine) bring better results than traditional cropping in RAW?"
A:
"All CIZ is doing is cropping the shot. There is no advantage in doing it in camera vs cropping later. You are reducing the mp as you crop (I think its 14mp on 50mm) so either way you are going to get the same result. Doing in camera gives you a JPEG while doing it separately gives you the ability to at least do some post of the file. You can also access the other virtual focal lengths from 35mm to anything...
The only advantage, maybe, of using CIZ in jpeg is that you can 'see' the FOV of what you are taking a photo of. All else is just a crop."
http://www.seriouscompacts.com/showthread.php?t=19888

There's some interesting comments in that thread.

Do you have a preference between the two remote control crops I posted above?

Not at this time. Soon spring will come and I will dig out my camera gear, etc. With the new information, do you have any more insights or preferences?

Not really. It was interesting to formally test CIZ against RAW-- my occasional informal use of CIZ had always been disappointing, and these tests confirm that it does deliver less than cropped RAW. So as a RAW shooter I know I can safely ignore it.

But I can see that it does offer a slightly useful option to casual JPEG shooters who don't want to post-process, but they're not getting any more detail than if they just shot medium or small JPEGs and used smart zoom, which would create much smaller files of equal or better quality. And I remain curious about why so many people are apparently taken in by Sony's CIZ hype: after all, it's just another flavour of digital zoom. I can se why a phone camera user likes digital zoom, but not why someone with a high quality Alpha camera would.

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

captura wrote:

So, the question is un-answered?

My answer is simply that CIZ doesn't enable any shots that would be impossible otherwise.

Bart

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Bart Hickman, 8 months ago

Bart Hickman wrote:

captura wrote:

So, the question is un-answered?

My answer is simply that CIZ doesn't enable any shots that would be impossible otherwise.

Bart

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I am not convinced.

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hyenadog
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 8 months ago

personally i wouldnt go down the 55-210 route, for its money theres nothing wrong with it, but its pretty dark, OIS/AF are not the greatest and at the 200 end its a bit soft .. clear zoom is just gonna make this softness worse i guess

If i had to use a NEX with a long lens (eg tripod mounted safari/wildlife) then i would personally look for a secondhand nikon/canon 300mm f4 (and they do a matching 1.4 ish teleconverrter which takes you even further) .. quality in a diff league to the 55-210 never mind interpolating digital zoom

.. dont waste your time on fleabay though go and see what you can find in dealers/camera stores, with these lenses they r often taken out in the damp and wilds so scratching/fungus etc are common if they havnt been taken care off

If you want to stick with the 55-210 as an alternative to digital zoom on top, if you google on these forums using the 55-210 with an extender, i remember people reporting good results with a screw on the end teleconverter (intended for sony video cameras i think) but that might give you

here we go i've fished one out for you

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41369279

hope it helps

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 8 months ago

captura wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

captura wrote:

So, the question is un-answered?

My answer is simply that CIZ doesn't enable any shots that would be impossible otherwise.

I am not convinced.

So you could see a significant difference between the two remote control shots I posted? Which did you prefer?

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GaryW
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 7 months ago

The two images have some differences.  Here are my observations.

Even without much pixel-peeping, the first photo is brighter.  I'm not sure if this affects the results (possibly washing away some details?).  Since the exposure is the same, perhaps the different processing affected one or the other.  Without pixel-peeping, the 2nd one has better contrast and color.

Zooming into the details (after bringing up the original of both), the first image has smoother diagonals.  The 2nd has more staircase/jaggy artifacts, implying a lower res and more harsh look, so the 1st one looks better in that regard. There's not enough detail in the remote to really determine if more real detail is preserved; the first image has a smoother result there.

Moving onto the map area, the 2nd photo contains more detail in the shading.  (You can see the lines more clearly.)  This is the only thing I can see in the images which is near the limit of the resolution, so I'd say more detail is being preserved in the 2nd.

If forced to choose one, I'd pick the 2nd photo, given the two presented, partially for the better contrast/exposure and partially for the additional detail.

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Gary W.

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