Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?

Started 9 months ago | Questions
wsalopek
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Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
9 months ago

What brought me down this path is I am looking for a zoom/telephoto lens for my Nex-6. Probably the Sony SEL55210.

But...

If other lenses work with clear zoom...that could be a factor in my decision. I know, clear zoom isn't optimal, plus I know Photoshop or something like onOne's "Perfect Resize" can kinda do the same thing, but it's not bad to grab some shots that would otherwise be impossible.

I saw a thread where someone said Sony's clear zoom works with non-Sony manual lenses. But I can't see how that could be...how could the camera know to go into clear zoom mode with no electrical connection to the lens?

So three questions:

1) Does the Sony clear zoom work with, say, a Sony Nex-6, + Nikon-Nex adapter + Nikon whatever lens? (Again, I feel dumb to ask, but since another thread said yes...)

2) Does Sony clear zoom work with a non-Sony E-mount lens, like the Tamron 18-200 Di III VC? Or the Sigma lenses, like the Sigma 30mm F2.8 DN?

3) Does the Sony clear zoom work with a Sony Nex-6 + LA-EA2 + Sony A-Mount lens?

Thanks...

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

I'm not sure why the lens matters. This is just a crop and upsize image processing technique, which like any digital zoom, can be done in-camera or later on the computer. It doesn't have anything to do with the lens.

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areichow
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

What brought me down this path is I am looking for a zoom/telephoto lens for my Nex-6. Probably the Sony SEL55210.

But...

If other lenses work with clear zoom...that could be a factor in my decision. I know, clear zoom isn't optimal, plus I know Photoshop or something like onOne's "Perfect Resize" can kinda do the same thing, but it's not bad to grab some shots that would otherwise be impossible.

I saw a thread where someone said Sony's clear zoom works with non-Sony manual lenses. But I can't see how that could be...how could the camera know to go into clear zoom mode with no electrical connection to the lens?

So three questions:

1) Does the Sony clear zoom work with, say, a Sony Nex-6, + Nikon-Nex adapter + Nikon whatever lens? (Again, I feel dumb to ask, but since another thread said yes...)

2) Does Sony clear zoom work with a non-Sony E-mount lens, like the Tamron 18-200 Di III VC? Or the Sigma lenses, like the Sigma 30mm F2.8 DN?

3) Does the Sony clear zoom work with a Sony Nex-6 + LA-EA2 + Sony A-Mount lens?

Thanks...

It works fine with a manual lens mounted with a non-electronic adapter. Why wouldn't it? It's just cropping/processing out of the center of the image.

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wsalopek
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to areichow, 9 months ago

But how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom mode?

On my Sony 16-50 kit lens, clear zoom starts, of course, at the end of the optical zoom range by continuing to turn the zoom ring.

If a lens has no electrical connection to the camera, how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom as the camera has no idea what zoom setting I am using, and much less that I have reached max zoom and want to zoom in further.

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wsalopek
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 9 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

I'm not sure why the lens matters. This is just a crop and upsize image processing technique, which like any digital zoom, can be done in-camera or later on the computer. It doesn't have anything to do with the lens.

But how does the camera know to use either clear zoom, or digital zoom, if the camera has no idea what the lens is doing?

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DWMurf
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

I'm not sure why the lens matters. This is just a crop and upsize image processing technique, which like any digital zoom, can be done in-camera or later on the computer. It doesn't have anything to do with the lens.

But how does the camera know to use either clear zoom, or digital zoom, if the camera has no idea what the lens is doing?

Good question: You need to tell the camera to use it. Go into the menu and activate Clear Image Zoom, or Extended Zoom or Digital Zoom, or all of them.

My 3N has a zoom lever on the body which is handy for controlling this. It works with any lens and adapter mounted on the camera, even my legacy fixed focal length lenses. 2X Clear Image Zoom may not seem like much but it is very dramatic zoom with wide angle lenses. I use my 8mm fish-eye as a 8-16mm zoom this way.

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David

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blue_skies
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

But how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom mode?

On my Sony 16-50 kit lens, clear zoom starts, of course, at the end of the optical zoom range by continuing to turn the zoom ring.

If a lens has no electrical connection to the camera, how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom as the camera has no idea what zoom setting I am using, and much less that I have reached max zoom and want to zoom in further.

Menu > Zoom on new UI, Camera > Zoom on previous UI.

Then use the dial to set zoom level (1.0x - 2.0x).

The Zoom menu option is only available for lenses that do not have PZ (power zoom).

The zoom is controlled by settings: Dig on/off, CIZ on/off. If you have only CIZ on, the zoom range will only be 1.0x to 2.0x. (There is no need to use Dig zoom - same as in post).

The Clear Zoom is applied to the image, you'll see it in live view, the camera/lens combination does not matter.

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Cheers,
Henry

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

What brought me down this path is I am looking for a zoom/telephoto lens for my Nex-6. Probably the Sony SEL55210.

But...

If other lenses work with clear zoom...that could be a factor in my decision. I know, clear zoom isn't optimal, plus I know Photoshop or something like onOne's "Perfect Resize" can kinda do the same thing, but it's not bad to grab some shots that would otherwise be impossible.

Shooting RAW and using photoshop's standard resize doesn't "kinda" do the same thing--it produces better results.

Bart

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

But how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom mode?

On my Sony 16-50 kit lens, clear zoom starts, of course, at the end of the optical zoom range by continuing to turn the zoom ring.

If a lens has no electrical connection to the camera, how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom as the camera has no idea what zoom setting I am using, and much less that I have reached max zoom and want to zoom in further.

When clear zoom is enabled, the camera enters clear zoom mode when you get to the long end of the zoom range of the lens.

Bart

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wsalopek
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Bart Hickman, 9 months ago

Bart Hickman wrote:

wsalopek wrote:

But how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom mode?

On my Sony 16-50 kit lens, clear zoom starts, of course, at the end of the optical zoom range by continuing to turn the zoom ring.

If a lens has no electrical connection to the camera, how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom as the camera has no idea what zoom setting I am using, and much less that I have reached max zoom and want to zoom in further.

When clear zoom is enabled, the camera enters clear zoom mode when you get to the long end of the zoom range of the lens.

Bart

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Bart,

I just want to be clear here for folks who might read this later...that is not correct (but please correct me if I am wrong!).

The camera can NOT enter clear zoom mode unless it is told to do so, and that means a person needs:

1)  A Sony e-mount lens.

2)  A manual (non-electrically connected) lens...and then using the cameras back control wheel to use clear zoom.

3)  Any lens...if the Sony camera has a power zoom lever (the Nex-6 does not).

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wsalopek
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

Menu > Zoom on new UI, Camera > Zoom on previous UI.

Then use the dial to set zoom level (1.0x - 2.0x).

The Zoom menu option is only available for lenses that do not have PZ (power zoom).

The zoom is controlled by settings: Dig on/off, CIZ on/off. If you have only CIZ on, the zoom range will only be 1.0x to 2.0x. (There is no need to use Dig zoom - same as in post).

The Clear Zoom is applied to the image, you'll see it in live view, the camera/lens combination does not matter.

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Cheers,
Henry

Thanks Henry...that explains it.

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Bill

P.S.  One remaining question...

If I use an LA-EA2 with an A-mount lens...will the camera AUTOMATICALLY go into clear zoom by continuing to turn the zoom ring (assuming of course the camera is set to do that), just as if I was using an e-mount lens?

I have never owned an A-mount lens...can the zoom ring keep turning past what would normally be the max zoom setting like e-mount lenses?

Thanks...

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blue_skies
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

Menu > Zoom on new UI, Camera > Zoom on previous UI.

Then use the dial to set zoom level (1.0x - 2.0x).

The Zoom menu option is only available for lenses that do not have PZ (power zoom).

The zoom is controlled by settings: Dig on/off, CIZ on/off. If you have only CIZ on, the zoom range will only be 1.0x to 2.0x. (There is no need to use Dig zoom - same as in post).

The Clear Zoom is applied to the image, you'll see it in live view, the camera/lens combination does not matter.

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Cheers,
Henry

Thanks Henry...that explains it.

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Bill

P.S. One remaining question...

If I use an LA-EA2 with an A-mount lens...will the camera AUTOMATICALLY go into clear zoom by continuing to turn the zoom ring (assuming of course the camera is set to do that), just as if I was using an e-mount lens?

I have never owned an A-mount lens...can the zoom ring keep turning past what would normally be the max zoom setting like e-mount lenses?

Thanks...

Hi Bill,

CIZ works with the LA-EA2 adapter. In fact, it works better, as you preserve the LA-EA2's PDAF capability. With the E-mount lenses, in CIZ mode, the AF is a bit questionable - it seems to work, but the AF confirmation green rectangle box is not there any longer (only the dotted green large outline shows).

The zoom level is not set by the lens (adapter or native), but by the control wheel when you are in the zoom-level settings menu. Once set, the camera stays in this mode.

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Cheers,
Henry

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wsalopek
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

Hi Bill,

CIZ works with the LA-EA2 adapter. In fact, it works better, as you preserve the LA-EA2's PDAF capability. With the E-mount lenses, in CIZ mode, the AF is a bit questionable - it seems to work, but the AF confirmation green rectangle box is not there any longer (only the dotted green large outline shows).

The zoom level is not set by the lens (adapter or native), but by the control wheel when you are in the zoom-level settings menu. Once set, the camera stays in this mode.

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Cheers,
Henry

Henry,

On my 16-50, I zoom with the zoom ring on the lens...and (if I have the camera set to do so of course), after max optical zoom, the zoom will then enter "S" (Smart), and then "C" (Clear), all by turning the ZOOM RING.

If I use my 50/1.8, then I have to use the back control wheel on the camera to use clear zoom (because of course the 50mm does not have a zoom ring).

So then just to clarify...

If I use the LA-EA2, and a Sony A-mount lens, I'll have to go to max zoom on the lens, and then switch over to the back control wheel for further zoom?

Or are you saying that I could first set the back control wheel...say, to 1.5x, and then a 100-300 lens would operate as a 150-450 as I twist the lens's zoom ring?

Sounds like you are also saying that if I want to shoot outdoor sports (which is what I am planning on doing), then I'd be better off with the LA-EA2 and an A-mount lens, than the 55-210 E-Mount, because I would keep PDAF all the way to max optical/clear zoom, correct?

OK...got an A-Mount lens to suggest?  

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

wsalopek wrote:

But how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom mode?

On my Sony 16-50 kit lens, clear zoom starts, of course, at the end of the optical zoom range by continuing to turn the zoom ring.

If a lens has no electrical connection to the camera, how does the camera know to "go into" clear zoom as the camera has no idea what zoom setting I am using, and much less that I have reached max zoom and want to zoom in further.

When clear zoom is enabled, the camera enters clear zoom mode when you get to the long end of the zoom range of the lens.

Bart

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Bart,

I just want to be clear here for folks who might read this later...that is not correct (but please correct me if I am wrong!).

The camera can NOT enter clear zoom mode unless it is told to do so, and that means a person needs:

1) A Sony e-mount lens.

2) A manual (non-electrically connected) lens...and then using the cameras back control wheel to use clear zoom.

3) Any lens...if the Sony camera has a power zoom lever (the Nex-6 does not).

Yes, thanks for the clarification--I mis-read the post.  I meant to describe how it works with a regular E-mount lens.

CIZ is more of a beginner feature IMO.  For someone mucking around with non-E-mount lenses, I would think they're advanced enough to shoot RAW.

Bart

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wsalopek
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Bart Hickman, 9 months ago

I agree...I am just trying to understand the limits of the various "features" of the Nex-6, and how they might affect a purchase decision...in this case, a telephoto/zoom lens.

Thanks.

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to Digital Nigel, 9 months ago

Digital Nigel wrote:

I'm not sure why the lens matters. This is just a crop and upsize image processing technique, which like any digital zoom, can be done in-camera or later on the computer. It doesn't have anything to do with the lens.

I disagree with your statement because that is still an unresolved subject of debate, on a different thread.

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 9 months ago

captura wrote:

Digital Nigel wrote:

I'm not sure why the lens matters. This is just a crop and upsize image processing technique, which like any digital zoom, can be done in-camera or later on the computer. It doesn't have anything to do with the lens.

I disagree with your statement because that is still an unresolved subject of debate, on a different thread.

So which part do you disagree with?  Surely everything I said above is purely factual.

The only unresolved part of the debate is whether CIZ employs a better upscaling algorithm than bicubic. My testing says that it doesn't, some people think it does, but haven't come up with any evidence beyond Sony's marketing blurbs and poor quality unfocused test images that obviously look even worse when upscaled.

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captura
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

Clear Zoom is not a new concept. Even the very first M43 camera ever, the much-loved Panasonic G1 had it. I can set up my G1 with let's say, normal aperture priority without CZ, and with CZ (which is 2X) on Full Auto on the mode dial. Then I simply jog from AP to Auto and back as needs be. Pretty handy.

The quality of CZ photos with that cam was excellent, too.

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Digital Nigel
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to captura, 9 months ago

captura wrote:

Clear Zoom is not a new concept. Even the very first M43 camera ever, the much-loved Panasonic G1 had it. I can set up my G1 with let's say, normal aperture priority without CZ, and with CZ (which is 2X) on Full Auto on the mode dial. Then I simply jog from AP to Auto and back as needs be. Pretty handy.

The quality of CZ photos with that cam was excellent, too.

CIZ is not new on Sony cameras, either -- it's been around for several years. But why isn't it just called digital zoom, as that's all it is? Obviously the interpolation is better when the upscaling is less (ie, <4:1 pixels), but it's just a modified upscaling algorithm. What I don't understand is why people who use CIZ don't just use smaller JPEG sizes, with smart zooming? That way, you don't get the damaging fake interpolated pixels added.

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Does Sony's "clear zoom" work with non-Sony lenses? Or with the LA-EA2 + A-mount?
In reply to wsalopek, 9 months ago

wsalopek wrote:

I agree...I am just trying to understand the limits of the various "features" of the Nex-6, and how they might affect a purchase decision...in this case, a telephoto/zoom lens.

Thanks.

My point is, if you shoot RAW, the clear zoom is irrelevant in your decision.  The optical sharpness is more important.  If you go for the a6000, I think the 55-210 will still have enough optical sharpness at F/7.1 or F/8 to really have about 25% more reach with the higher pixel count.  The 18-200 might not be as sharp (just guessing--I don't know.)

Bart

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