Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?

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kayone
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Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
5 months ago

CN: travel companions who ask for all if your original size trip photos, entitled or reasonable request?

General question for you guys when it comes to travel photography and traveling with friends who may or may not be serious photography enthusiasts :

For you single or unmarried types who travel with friends and the primary objective is to holiday and enjoy yourselves, but you may happen to be the sole serious photographer in your travel group. Your friends may also bring anything from dSLRs to compacts to phones and are primarily shooting for memories and to post vacation photos on FB or whatever.

So you may spend some time during the trip doing some solo photowalks and devote some considerable time & effort to set up landscape, urban night shots, etc. And by the end of the trip everyone wants to share photos and of course you post some of your photos on your social media network of choice and share those among all the friends you travelled with.

But I've encountered people (not close friends) who ive travelled with who have the expectation that everyone share and exchange their original full size images with a each other. Now if they are group photos or pics I've taken of my friends Im more than happy to give them originals so they can do with as they please. However when it comes to my other shots, they can be happy with whatever scaled down images I've shared on my social media and that's it.

Even when I've gone on photo specific trips with my photographer friends, I consider their work their work and mine, mine. Ive never asked original files from them and vice versa.

What's everyone's elses take on this? Is it being ungenerous, withholding or reasonable to not want to freely give all your original full res travel photos to someone else just because they travelled with you.

nelsonal
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

Were you planning to make money from the vacation pictures?  I'd probably share them.

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Erik Magnuson
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Value of friendship vs. value of photos
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

kayone wrote:

What's everyone's elses take on this? Is it being ungenerous, withholding or reasonable to not want to freely give all your original full res travel photos to someone else just because they travelled with you.

It's an unusual request, one that I've not heard of before, but IMHO:

  1. Did you know about this before you traveled with them, i.e. are you breaking your (explicit or implied) word?
  2. Do you want to travel with them again?
  3. Do you feel you got substantial extra value traveling with them, i.e. they took you places you would not go yourself or pointed out photo opportunities you would have missed on your own?
  4. Do you have a likely commercial or competitive interest in these photos such that if someone else publicly displays them (or even sells them), it will diminish your ability to use them?

If the answer to any of the first three is "yes" and the last one is "no", then why not?

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DenWil
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Rarely asked,
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

since I am never the person taking "travel" pics and my friends don't ask for presents often. They instinctively don't want to impinge  on what I do for a living.

When some shot comes from my camera that a friend wants a copy of they get a full 65MB finished  TIFF  and if that is not useable for them they also get a 1.5 MB matching JPEG. Takes a minute in this day and technical age to transfer images to a drive or dropbox.

I do not harbor  the obsessive   compulsive  control/ possession issues that seem to plague some folks. Certainly not with non work product, and even then once I've cashed the check. I like my work seen and many one-offs don't make it to the general public.

I also loan  Bu-Rays and clothes to personal friends.  I have lots.

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ajscullard
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Don't get suck(er)ed in
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

I went on trip with a group of people from my workplace, organized by a work colleague. After the trip we had a get-together to look at each others pictures and I happened to show mine using a DVD of my shots.

The lady who organized the trip asked to borrow the DVD to look at again and I agreed. However, the DVD then "got lost somewhere" and was never returned. Some time later I found some of my shots on the web site of the travel company that she used to book the trip, being used to advertise other trips.

Needless to say, I did not travel with her again, and I will never share pictures again.

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kayone
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to nelsonal, 5 months ago

nelsonal wrote:

Were you planning to make money from the vacation pictures? I'd probably share them.

Yes, I always keep original copies of my landscape and cityscape work to potentially sell as prints.

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kayone
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Re: Value of friendship vs. value of photos
In reply to Erik Magnuson, 5 months ago

Erik Magnuson wrote:

kayone wrote:

What's everyone's elses take on this? Is it being ungenerous, withholding or reasonable to not want to freely give all your original full res travel photos to someone else just because they travelled with you.

It's an unusual request, one that I've not heard of before, but IMHO:

  1. Did you know about this before you traveled with them, i.e. are you breaking your (explicit or implied) word?
  2. Do you want to travel with them again?
  3. Do you feel you got substantial extra value traveling with them, i.e. they took you places you would not go yourself or pointed out photo opportunities you would have missed on your own?
  4. Do you have a likely commercial or competitive interest in these photos such that if someone else publicly displays them (or even sells them), it will diminish your ability to use them?

If the answer to any of the first three is "yes" and the last one is "no", then why not?

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Erik

1. no, this was never expressly stated or a condition of travel before we set out

2. the one's who usually make these requests, no, I usually don't want to travel with them again but for separate reasons

3. again, no to this answer too, most of my photos I consider print worthy I got because of my own planning, efforts (to make it out to that location, paying the costs, etc, waking up early, staying up late, etc)

4. Yes to this.

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Jim Cassatt
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

I friend of mine went on a trip to Israel with his church group.  He solved the problem by making a Blurb book and having people order it.

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tko
tko
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downsized only
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

I think it's pretty reasonable to offer resized images that will make a nice memory print. I dunno, maybe 1200X1600, which will barely make a 8X10, maybe larger.

WHY give full rez? Most people don't print large, and if they did, they'd be taking their own photos.

Even 1200X1600 can be used on the web, share on an iPad, perfectly adequate for any normal purpose that a non-die hard photographer might want it for.

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v steffel
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

When I travel with a group we are on a study tour. When we return we produce a collective travel journal to help us reflect.

Thus far there have not been professional photographers or individuals who hope to make money, except once. We usually share our photographs. Usually, those shots that are made available are PP'd if needed and then reduced in size sufficient that they can be projected or 4x6 inch prints made.

As I said, the shots are usually downsized, but if someone wanted the full size, then most likely I would provide it.

Not everyone is a good photographer. There are times when one person is in a better position. Sometimes a camera breaks or a person loses a card or shots on the card. Sharing helps fill the gap.

Finally, on a study tour you sometimes don't have enough time to take the photographs you would like to. So sharing has it advantages.

I'm happy to share my photos because I know that there are others who most likely have done better and do so.

Best,

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v steffel
frame frame! shoot shoot! sauvette!

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RUcrAZ
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Yea, just give it to them!
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

What's the big deal?

But wait until a) they ask for them for the third time, and b) they have already sent you their photos.

If you have some very special photos which you may like to sell, or enter into contests, or...then don't send them (you know which ones they are.)

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MaxTux
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just say NO (n/t)
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

(n/t)

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Julius P.
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

I've asked this of a fellow photographer who I buddied up with travelling once. He borrowed my tripod for Milky Way shots during a dark sky because he didn't bring one for his trip.

Besides overusing my tripod past agreed time limits and thereby depriving me of time to shoot my own shots under the best conditions, he never provided me with any of the photos which we essentially worked together to create as I had to also give him a basic primer on astrophotography. This would have only been 2-4 photos I wanted.

Why did I lend the tripod to start with? He had a D800 and I had a D700, and I said he shouldn't miss the opportunity to shoot the Milky Way with it.

That experience has taught me two things:
- Never lend your gear out while travelling
- You have to be selfish about your own shots. Bad luck if somebody else couldn't get the shots you did.

I travel solo 99% of the time so I don't encounter the "everyone share photos" issue, but if asked, I'd be happy to share certain snapshots with travel companions. I'd make it fairly clear that any shots I value highly (e.g. for future entry into awards or exhibitions) will not be shared.

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frank-in-toronto
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to Julius P., 5 months ago

i really doubt if anybody "normal" wants full-rez originals.  if u want to share, just get their email and tell them you'll send them the good ones after u post-process.  which naturally includes resizing and water-marking.  don't send any pics u might want to sell commercially.

i often give pics.  sometimes full-rez, no holds barred.  it depends why i did the shoot.

there are other opinions on this.  some say giving is a good way to get known.  many amateurs make BOLD watermarks on their images.  the image looks awful and nobody passes it on.  don't worry too much about lost income.  most likely the pic will never be worth anything.

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Alphoid
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Reasonable request
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

It's a reasonable request, and commonly done on trips I've been on. Most people I've traveled with don't think twice about it, and you shouldn't think less of your companions for making it.

'Reasonable request' doesn't mean you have to say yes, however.

We all come from different backgrounds and cultures. What's an expected in Crimea might be a reasonable request in Florida, and might be rude to ask for in New York City, and vica-versa. The same goes for academics, engineers, and lawyers -- very different cultures. When folks get together, that's sometimes hard to manage. It's important to understand:

  1. Your colleagues aren't jerks, and what they're doing is very reasonable.
  2. You're not a jerk either for refusing. You just have a different culture and set of expectations.

That has to be managed. How concerned are you about protecting your photos? How concerned are you about the value of friendship? Are you planning to sell your photos to them? Are they likely to respect your wishes about how the photos get used? In most cases, when faced with a cultural conflict, I find the value of the social connections outweighs whatever I'm giving in on. When that's not the case, it's usually a complex negotiation.

There are two places you'll run into issues, sometimes:

  1. Your colleagues are unlikely to see you as different from them. If I go over to a chef's house for dinner, I don't see them as providing a service to me anymore than when I visit friends who can't cook. We're outside of a professional setting.
  2. If I'm with my family, as a matter of efficiency, if I see someone else taking a shot, I won't bother taking the same one, and vica-versa, since I know photos will get shared. If people expect sharing, and it doesn't happen, you will be perceived to be a jerk. It's important to set clear expectations early. Most people will respect that if it is done before the fact. This doesn't have to be a big deal. Mention you're a professional photographer, and perhaps tell an off-hand anecdote about a previous trip where someone annoying wanted photos for free or something similar that clearly implies what your expectations going in are.
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jayrandomer
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You're a photographer and they're not
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

kayone wrote:

CN: travel companions who ask for all if your original size trip photos, entitled or reasonable request?

General question for you guys when it comes to travel photography and traveling with friends who may or may not be serious photography enthusiasts :

For you single or unmarried types who travel with friends and the primary objective is to holiday and enjoy yourselves, but you may happen to be the sole serious photographer in your travel group. Your friends may also bring anything from dSLRs to compacts to phones and are primarily shooting for memories and to post vacation photos on FB or whatever.

So you may spend some time during the trip doing some solo photowalks and devote some considerable time & effort to set up landscape, urban night shots, etc. And by the end of the trip everyone wants to share photos and of course you post some of your photos on your social media network of choice and share those among all the friends you travelled with.

But I've encountered people (not close friends) who ive travelled with who have the expectation that everyone share and exchange their original full size images with a each other. Now if they are group photos or pics I've taken of my friends Im more than happy to give them originals so they can do with as they please. However when it comes to my other shots, they can be happy with whatever scaled down images I've shared on my social media and that's it.

I think a good rule is this: If it's a photo of them you should share full sized images with them. If you get the feeling they're entitled jerks ask for a model release first. They shouldn't expect anything beyond that.

I'm probably a lot different than you, though, in that that the level of friend someone needs to be for me to share photos with them is much lower than the level of friend would have to be before I shared vacation time with them.

Even when I've gone on photo specific trips with my photographer friends, I consider their work their work and mine, mine. Ive never asked original files from them and vice versa.

Your a photographer and they're not. In their minds your photos only have currency in that other people might want to see them. That's probably true of most travels shots ever taken. Its only the rare few that have travel shots with monetary value, where other people would actually agree to pay for them. Most non-photographers don't understand or appreciate that photographs from people they know could have such value. If this is you, politely decline the request.

What's everyone's elses take on this? Is it being ungenerous, withholding or reasonable to not want to freely give all your original full res travel photos to someone else just because they travelled with you.

It is ungenerous and withholding not to give someone something they ask for. Whether or not its reasonable depends on what you plan to do with the photos. If they're just going to live on your hard drive until it crashes and otherwise do nothing, I don't see the reason for keeping them hidden away. That's your right, of course, but seems to be a waste. If you have plans or hopes to do something more with the photographs then its not unreasonable, although it may be unrealistic.

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Franka T.L.
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

Well I still believe in good virtues so I will take it as some form of flattery towards your photographic skill and thus the result. Those who ask for it are more likely wanting to have a good memory for that scenery which you take , and for which they do not have the skill nor having the mean to capture. So they look to you the one in the group that are capable and indeed did the capture.

I travel a lot and I do sometime encounter similar request. Ok its just me, but I shoot RAW, so the original is out of the question since its RAW. What I will do instead is develop the image and made a rather nice full resolution ( or downsized a bit if needed, mostly for killing the noise ) and hand that JPEG to them and telling them if they want to print them for their own enjoyment or hang it on their wall at home they were more than welcomed. But I would likely put a very tiny text inscription on the very corner indicating my copyright ( and usually also the place and date its captured ) as a matter of fact record.  So far none of my pals complain about it. In fact many praise that cause it let them recall the journey and the place they visit better yet still. Of course I always tell them not to share the photo to others whether its social media or what. Its after all my shoot and my photo that I take, not theris.

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tcg550
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

My freinds don't have to request it because I share them almost immediately. Of course they share theirs as well. It does not matter whose are better. It's not a competition it's a way to share memories.

I'm also confident that none of my friends would sell them or use them to make a profit.

Of course my friends are actually freinds and the friendship works both ways.

I also don't travel with anyone I would not consider a friend. Sounds like you might travel with strangers but that still wouldn't change things for me. I would still share.

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Dennis
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Re: Sharing travel photography original full size files with travel companions, yes or no?
In reply to kayone, 5 months ago

kayone wrote:

What's everyone's elses take on this? Is it being ungenerous, withholding or reasonable to not want to freely give all your original full res travel photos to someone else just because they travelled with you.

Sounds entirely reasonable. I freely share pictures of people with them. But any scenics or other types of photography that don't really involve them, I'll upload at screen sizes (and big enough for 4x6 prints), if at all. Beyond that, it depends on the circumstances - are the people friendly, appreciative, or just demanding ? (You mentioned friends in one part, then people who aren't friends in another).

I guess I don't travel much in groups and haven't really been in this situation. I do lots of sharing of pictures I take of people - I use my smugmug account and upload to hidden galleries - but even then, I'll typically upload at no bigger than 1600x2400, which is an 8x12 at 200dpi.

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Dennis
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Re: You're a photographer and they're not
In reply to jayrandomer, 5 months ago

jayrandomer wrote:

I'm probably a lot different than you, though, in that that the level of friend someone needs to be for me to share photos with them is much lower than the level of friend would have to be before I shared vacation time with them.

I can certainly agree with this ! Though recently, I've been looking at "guided travel" (tour groups) as a possibility for traveling overseas with our daughter, who is an only child ... I'm not completely sold on the idea, but the possible pluses are: other children (also a possible minus !), stress-free travel in countries where English isn't ubiquitous, and a handful of activities that would be difficult to arrange. (My wife and daughter are much more outgoing than I, so would enjoy some company). Potential downsides are numerous, which is why I'm not completely sold on it yet Anyway, I could see people possibly asking for pictures, and I'd probably be happy to share pictures sizes for 8x12" prints with anyone who's friendly. (OTOH, I run into enough people with a sense of entitlement that I'd have no trouble ignoring the request). I've mailed a DVD of a performance to someone I'd never met so she could bring it to show family over the holidays, because my daughter (who was in the show) liked the girl and the woman sounded very nice and appreciative. I'm typically generous with my pictures, because as you say, a picture someone enjoys is better than idle bits on a hard drive. As for who I'm generous with, that's just human interaction stuff, same as deciding who you're willing to do any kind of favor for.

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