G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
kitchenbug
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to Tonkotsu Ramen, 6 months ago

Is the image quality that it produces worth the price and size/weight/heft?

Not sure. But that's why I bought the camera. At least, it will give me more pixels to work with in post.

Is the bokeh unnaturally soft at wider apertures (between F2.0-3.9) as it was in some sample pics?

It's not bokeh, but some hallation, at very close distances with aperture wide open. This is not unusual at close distance with such small F values. Other cameras (with equal sensor size) may not allow you to use such a combination of settings. This camera gives you the option.

Is the AF speed acceptable? or.. fast?

Yes. This is a huge improvement over my Nikon P7700.

Is the shot to shot time (AF speed + delay time between shots with review turned off) acceptable? or even.. fast?

Very fast.

Does the touch shutter work quickly? or is it mostly a gimmick and operates too slow to be useful?

It works fine.

Does it fit in a jacket or coat pocket?

Not mine.

What about sweater pockets? (think full zip mock neck or full zip hoodies)?

No. Weight is the primary issue, but it also has some bulk.

Or is it simply too large to fit in pockets, and will require a case or dangling from the arm/shoulder/neck?

The latter.

And finally, the most important question.

Will you keep it?

The camera is unique in the combination of its large (1.5 inch) sensor camera with a leaf shutter. The ability to sync with flash at 1/3200 sec., with wide open aperture, allows me to use small flash effectively outdoors in Strobist style. Next available options are Mamiya 645, Hasselblad, and Leica S system, which are prohibitively expensive.

I will probably keep the camera until a good alternative shows up. If Nikon P8000 (albeit with probably a smaller sensor) is good enough, I might switch.

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paulj623
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

Can someone post a link to the manual for this camera. I can't find it.

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VisionLight
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to paulj623, 6 months ago

paulj623 wrote:

Can someone post a link to the manual for this camera. I can't find it.

Here's the link to my post.

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kitchenbug
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to Ranlee, 6 months ago

Like the AEL setting, this is also exactly the same way as the SX240 works. In Av mode, the wheel on the back of the camera (the stepped ring around the lens of the G1X2) controls aperture, in Tv mode it controls shutter speed and in Manual mode you switch between controlling aperture or shutter speed by pushing at the top of the wheel.

Nice & Easy

Erik

I have to think it works that way. I hope the OP simply got a little discombobulated on that point.

You can set it that way if that's what you want. You still have the problem of assigning three existing wheels to control more than three values. In my mind, one of the three controls, the un-clicked Step Ring, is not optimal for controlling anything but focus.

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paulj623
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

One more question. With the sony rx100 pop up flash you can tilt it back to use as a bounce flash. Can you do this with the flask on the g1x2. The design looks similar to Sonys

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FlexiPack
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to paulj623, 6 months ago

paulj623 wrote:

One more question. With the sony rx100 pop up flash you can tilt it back to use as a bounce flash. Can you do this with the flask on the g1x2. The design looks similar to Sonys

Yes, the OP mentioned it a few posts back:

kitchenbug wrote:

BTW, with the internal flash, you can sort of do bouncing its output off the ceiling. You have to push the flash unit delicately towards the back. If you tilt it to within the last 15 degrees or so, the built in sensor thinks the flash is stored in camera, and does not work.

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paulj623
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to FlexiPack, 6 months ago

Wow. Help Me out. I am in the us and was about to pre order the camera.  I saw the Thailand manual and auto iso in manual mode is available.  Went to b&h saw the us version manual and it does not have it as an option???

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VisionLight
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to paulj623, 6 months ago

paulj623 wrote:

Wow. Help Me out. I am in the us and was about to pre order the camera. I saw the Thailand manual and auto iso in manual mode is available. Went to b&h saw the us version manual and it does not have it as an option???

The manual that is linked by the B&H site is for the G1X, not the G1X Mark II.

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paulj623
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to VisionLight, 6 months ago

Got it. Thx. That is weird they would do that. Looks like I am not going to save $800.

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Tonkotsu Ramen
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

Thank You Kitchenbug

I eagerly await the release of this camera, I will be in asia soon and may finally be able to get my hands on one.

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jonrobertp
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to paulj623, 6 months ago

paulj623 wrote:

Got it. Thx. That is weird they would do that. Looks like I am not going to save $800.

lol...the bad thing about good cams is that we then don't get to keep our money.  I understand,

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requa
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

kitchenbug wrote:

In my mind, one of the three controls, the un-clicked Step Ring, is not optimal for controlling anything but focus.

First off, thank you for taking the time and effort to address so many questions here. As you can tell, folks in this hemisphere are craving information from hands-on users. You've been very helpful, and I hope this process has helped you to sort out your own thoughts and perceptions.

Does your reference to "the un-clicked Step Ring" above mean there is no tactile feedback when rotating the inner ring at all? No click or pause to let you know you've changed to the next step? That's a bit disappointing,to say the least. I wasn't too concerned about the limitations on the number of manual control interfaces, but it only makes sense to be able to tell when you've stepped on a step ring. Is this because different functions would offer a different number of steps spaced differently?

Thanks,

Dan

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kitchenbug
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to requa, 6 months ago

First off, thank you for taking the time and effort to address so many questions here. As you can tell, folks in this hemisphere are craving information from hands-on users. You've been very helpful, and I hope this process has helped you to sort out your own thoughts and perceptions.

Usually, Japanese manufacturers release their products overseas before they do so in Japan. It's peculiar how Canon chose to release this particular camera over a month early in Japan. I'm hoping they will make firmware (and hardware?) adjustments before they release this elsewhere.

Does your reference to "the un-clicked Step Ring" above mean there is no tactile feedback when rotating the inner ring at all? No click or pause to let you know you've changed to the next step? That's a bit disappointing,to say the least. I wasn't too concerned about the limitations on the number of manual control interfaces, but it only makes sense to be able to tell when you've stepped on a step ring. Is this because different functions would offer a different number of steps spaced differently?

Sorry. My typo. I should have said "the un-clicked Continuous Ring". That's the the front-most (away from the body) ring on the lens barrel, and does not give any tactile feedback. You must compare your rotating movement against the display to get feedback.

The other ring closer to the body is called Step Ring, and is clicked, meaning it gives you tactile feedback.

In the present firmware, there are limitations in which function you can assign to either ring.

Both rings are "control by wire", such that they rotate without limitations in either direction. I understnad your concern for the different number of steps for different functions, but it does not apply.

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requa
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

Thank you. That is a relief.

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dpr4bb
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

kitchenbug wrote:

Also, in the M mode, is there an auto flash capability, or are you limited to three flash power levels?

Even in M mode, flash is TTL auto adjusted. Where did you get the impression it has 'three flash power levels'?

I got this impression, hoping that I was wrong, from page 104 of the English manual from the Canon Thailand web site. This was under the "Adjusting the Flash Ouput" heading of the section of the manual that describes the M mode. They mention that you can chose from three power levels in the M mode.

Oh, I get it. I checked the Japanese manual as well, and it's equally confusing. I think the doc writer was confused about the two different meaning of "M". Here's how it works.

In Tv, Av, or M exposure modes, you have a choice of "Flash Mode" between "Manual" and "Auto". In P exposure mode, the choice is hidden, and it's implicitly set to "Auto".

With "Flash Mode" set to "Auto", you can dial in "Flash Exp. Comp" within +-2EV range in 1/3EV increments.

With "Flash Mode" set to "Manual", you can select from "Minimum", "Medium", and "Maximum". I find this tri-level adjustment a bit limiting, but heck, I'll be using an external flash in M mode anyway if I wanted to use manual control.

BTW, with the internal flash, you can sort of do bouncing its output off the ceiling. You have to push the flash unit delicately towards the back. If you tilt it to within the last 15 degrees or so, the built in sensor thinks the flash is stored in camera, and does not work.

Thank you so much for checking and for your clear explanation. I'm glad that my impression was incorrect

From the manual, it's pretty clear that you cannot specify a minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO in the P and A modes. That's the shutter speed at which point the camera increases the ISO instead of letting the shutter speed slow down further. Do you know what shutter speed the camera tries to maintain as the available light level drops? I realize that this can get a little complicated as there is a "Rate of Change" setting for Auto-ISO that affects this minimum shutter speed. Is it a function of the focal length?

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kitchenbug
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Re: G1 X Mark II: Not happy with handling
In reply to dpr4bb, 6 months ago

From the manual, it's pretty clear that you cannot specify a minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO in the P and A modes. That's the shutter speed at which point the camera increases the ISO instead of letting the shutter speed slow down further. Do you know what shutter speed the camera tries to maintain as the available light level drops? I realize that this can get a little complicated as there is a "Rate of Change" setting for Auto-ISO that affects this minimum shutter speed. Is it a function of the focal length?

The question demands an extended testing because multiple parameters come into play. Let me just say my few minutes of testing (in Av mode with ISO ceiling set at 12800) shows: With zoom set at its widest end, the "Slow" setting tries to maintain 1/15 sec shutter speed. The "Standard" and "Fast" settings seem to maintain 1/20 sec.

The program seems to show tendency to stick around ISO 3200 until other parameters are exhausted. So that gives us an idea of where Canon thinks the 'useable' ISO ceiling is.

I probably won't test the exposure programming extensively, as I don't like to depend on auto ISO setting, and proper testing gets very extensive.

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grey-ghost
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Re: Interesting..
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

Thanks for the thoughtful original posting and for the replies to all who are showing a very active interest in the Mk II and your early experience with it.  Ergonomics and handling, while very important in any camera purchase, are generally a very personal and subjective issue.  The value (or limitations) of a new camera's ergonomics also depends somewhat on what the prospective buyer currently has and uses.

I've ordered the G1 X Mk II as an upgrade to my Mark I - with which I am very pleased overall - primarily for the extended zoom range and the reported faster focusing and better macro performance.  So here's my view as a current Mk I user, of the Mk I vs. Mk II differences based on reading the Mk II manual and on you thoughtful report:

First, both the Mk I and Mk II have in total three control dials.  What has changed is the Mk II has moved two of those to the lens and allowed them to both be assigned customized functions.  In the process, two click stop dials and one continuous dial on the Mk I have been changed to one click stop dial and two continuous dials on the Mk II.  (In the case of the Mark I, one of the click stop controls  - the EC dial on top of the camera - was dedicated to Exposure Compensation and not programable to other uses.)  So the question for any user will be whether a programmable continuous dial is more useful to their style of shooting than a click stop dial with a dedicated EC function.

Second, the "removed" EC dial has moved to the function set/control wheel on the back of the Mark II, replacing DISP on the control dial of the Mark I.  The DISP function has moved to a dedicated button.  This replaces the Exposure Mode button on the Mark I, which has now moved to the function set menu. It is not clear from the manual whether the Exposure Mode can be changed using the touch screen or must be changed using the function set/control wheel.  (Coming from a Panasonic GH3 as my other system, I am very comfortable with using touch screen controls.)

In terms of camera operation, both of the above changes do not concern me, other than there may be some "muscle memory" learning curve time when I switch to the Mk II.  However the grip size is another matter and may be a concern for me personally.  It appears from the manual that removal of the front dial also decreased the depth of the standard hand grip.  The manual shows an optional "custom grip" accessory, but I haven't seen it listed on Canon's web page for Mk II accessories.  Only getting the camera in my hands will tell me whether this (and the related thumb area placement on the back of the camera) is an issue or not.

So thanks again for the thoughtful review and responses.  I'm posting not to refute anything you say - only to point out that individual responses to the changes will vary based on the photographer's particular shooting style and current/past equipment usage.

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Carpe Diem,
Mike

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kitchenbug
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Re: Interesting..
In reply to grey-ghost, 6 months ago

Mike,

I'll be very interested in what you have to say once you get the camera. BTW, exposure compensation can be assigned to either of the Dual Control Rings.

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telefunk
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Re: Interesting..
In reply to grey-ghost, 6 months ago

grey-ghost wrote:

 (Coming from a Panasonic GH3 as my other system, I am very comfortable with using touch screen controls.)

A mountain climber friend of mine  told me touch screen is a complete no-no in the cold and gloves and what not when you're on top of the Mont Blanc. Do you have any experience with this?

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jonrobertp
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Re: Interesting..
In reply to kitchenbug, 6 months ago

kitchenbug wrote:

Mike,

I'll be very interested in what you have to say once you get the camera. BTW, exposure compensation can be assigned to either of the Dual Control Rings.

So EC on a ring...good. And zoom on a lever...no problem.

Any comment on the sharpness of the lens ? Thx

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