D800 totally cooking reds

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
primeshooter
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D800 totally cooking reds
8 months ago

Has anyone else observed the D800's tendancy to overcook red in images. Tends to be worse if it's a reddish glow or light, even shooting raw sometimes I am noticing it has totally clipped all information and it's doing it regularly. Is UNIWB the answer, if so can someone go into more detail.

Nikon D800
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JacquesC
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

In my experience most cameras tend to blow reds easily, and that includes the D800. For that reason I tend to dial in some negative exposure compensation when there is a lot of red in an image.

The camera that best handled reds was my Fuji S5Pro, it was quite amazing with that.

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Randy Z
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

Every camera meter I've ever known has it's idiosyncracies that you have to deal with.  They each have situations where they're good at guessing, and different circumstances where they're not so bright.

As much as camera ads say otherwise, meters are just a place to start.  You can't expect your camera to know what you want to see, or what you're seeing, anymore than you can expect a car to drive itself because it has an automatic transmission.

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primeshooter
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to Randy Z, 8 months ago

Randy Z wrote:

Every camera meter I've ever known has it's idiosyncracies that you have to deal with. They each have situations where they're good at guessing, and different circumstances where they're not so bright.

As much as camera ads say otherwise, meters are just a place to start. You can't expect your camera to know what you want to see, or what you're seeing, anymore than you can expect a car to drive itself because it has an automatic transmission.

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Z-Man

Sounds like you are answering something i never asked. I don't expect it to do everything for me - I know how the meter works and why it's there! I'm asking for tips, workaround etc.

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M Lammerse
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'Sony reds'
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

primeshooter wrote:

Has anyone else observed the D800's tendancy to overcook red in images. Tends to be worse if it's a reddish glow or light, even shooting raw sometimes I am noticing it has totally clipped all information and it's doing it regularly. Is UNIWB the answer, if so can someone go into more detail.

I know what you mean,

And I call them Sony reds, due to that all of my Nikon camera's with a Sony sensor have the similar tendency

You can control it largely by making an own profile.

Michel

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anotherMike
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

Nope. If anything, compared to the D700 I had, the D800 handles strong reds far better. Doesn't mean you can stop watching the exposure - gotta keep an eye on that for sure, but in terms of the body itself having a propensity to blow the red channel, no, I don't agree.

-m

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j_photo
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

primeshooter wrote:

Has anyone else observed the D800's tendancy to overcook red in images. Tends to be worse if it's a reddish glow or light, even shooting raw sometimes I am noticing it has totally clipped all information and it's doing it regularly. Is UNIWB the answer, if so can someone go into more detail.

It might help if you posted a sample or said under what conditions you are seeing this.

To some extent I agree with what you say. For example, when shooting Caucasian skin in strong lighting I set image preview to show blinkies on the red channel only. This works for me to avoid overexposure and produce good skin tones.

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39matt
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

What are you using to post process your raw files.
Adobe standard in ACR and Lightroom overcooked reds but this solved by changing the camera profile in Lightroom etc to camera standard.
Once I had done this no more colour issues with the D800 files

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_sem_
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

primeshooter wrote:

Randy Z wrote:

Every camera meter I've ever known has it's idiosyncracies that you have to deal with. They each have situations where they're good at guessing, and different circumstances where they're not so bright.

As much as camera ads say otherwise, meters are just a place to start. You can't expect your camera to know what you want to see, or what you're seeing, anymore than you can expect a car to drive itself because it has an automatic transmission.

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Z-Man

Sounds like you are answering something i never asked. I don't expect it to do everything for me - I know how the meter works and why it's there! I'm asking for tips, workaround etc.

I think you've already mentioned the answer, UniWB. Next best should be fixed daylight WB and neutral picture control - for the RGB histogram. But you still have to watch it, because in high DR the meter goes roughly after luminosity (predominantly green) & midtones, not red highlights. ADL might help sometimes if you don't fiddle with EC. But it may not help enough, and it may harm if you do fiddle with EC.

Although I'm not sure why the cameras should not be able to protect the reds sometime in this millenium. On second thought they just might and very soon, but we will not like it for some reason.

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Charles Bittinger
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to JacquesC, 8 months ago

Had the same problem with my D200 and D700 for red or yellow objects. Just used negative exposure compensation. Will probably have to do the same with my new D800. Thanks for the heads  up

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Charlie

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David314
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Uniwb doesn't help
In reply to _sem_, 8 months ago

_sem_ wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

Randy Z wrote:

Every camera meter I've ever known has it's idiosyncracies that you have to deal with. They each have situations where they're good at guessing, and different circumstances where they're not so bright.

As much as camera ads say otherwise, meters are just a place to start. You can't expect your camera to know what you want to see, or what you're seeing, anymore than you can expect a car to drive itself because it has an automatic transmission.

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Z-Man

Sounds like you are answering something i never asked. I don't expect it to do everything for me - I know how the meter works and why it's there! I'm asking for tips, workaround etc.

I think you've already mentioned the answer, UniWB. Next best should be fixed daylight WB and neutral picture control - for the RGB histogram. But you still have to watch it, because in high DR the meter goes roughly after luminosity (predominantly green) & midtones, not red highlights. ADL might help sometimes if you don't fiddle with EC. But it may not help enough, and it may harm if you do fiddle with EC.

Although I'm not sure why the cameras should not be able to protect the reds sometime in this millenium. On second thought they just might and very soon, but we will not like it for some reason.

assuming you are shooting raw with uniwb, it really doesn't help, you still have to white balance to have a viewable picture

and most red channel problems are not in the raw data, it is the conversion to jpeg where the issue is created

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GearGuru
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

During capture, try looking at the RGB histogram and in particular the red channel. You'll have to underexpose a bit to minimize or eradicate clipping in the red channel. Two other tips, make your own raw custom camera profile using something like X-Rite Passport and the other is to reduce the luminance of red in your raw processor. In Adobe CR in the color adjustments there are adjustments with sliders for hue, saturation and luminance for all colors or use targeted adj tool that's also there too.

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Yxa
Yxa
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to Charles Bittinger, 8 months ago

Charles Bittinger wrote:

Had the same problem with my D200 and D700 for red or yellow objects. Just used negative exposure compensation. Will probably have to do the same with my new D800. Thanks for the heads up

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Charlie

I find the colors from D200 CCD sensor to be excellent, better than my D800

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Martin Grecner
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

In my experience using Adobe RGB color space set in camera and viewing the result on an sRGB monitor causes overblown reds. If you are using Adobe RGB, try to switch to sRGB and see if if helps.

If you are already using sRGB, then the only option you have is watching your exposure, which is not easy to do as you do not have true RAW histogram on the D800, so finding UNIWB is the only way to be sure.

Martin

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adrian1sun
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago
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JP Scherrer
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Agree 100% on all that ! (image included)
In reply to JacquesC, 8 months ago

JacquesC wrote:

In my experience most cameras tend to blow reds easily, and that includes the D800. For that reason I tend to dial in some negative exposure compensation when there is a lot of red in an image.

The camera that best handled reds was my Fuji S5Pro, it was quite amazing with that.

...and indeed underexposing -1 EV can help !

Although I had forgotten that my D800 was set to ISO 1600, I underexposed -1 EV and (despite the noise created by the high ISO), the reds are absolutely not cooked !

J-P.

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j_photo
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Re: Uniwb doesn't help
In reply to David314, 8 months ago

David314 wrote:

_sem_ wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

Randy Z wrote:

Every camera meter I've ever known has it's idiosyncracies that you have to deal with. They each have situations where they're good at guessing, and different circumstances where they're not so bright.

As much as camera ads say otherwise, meters are just a place to start. You can't expect your camera to know what you want to see, or what you're seeing, anymore than you can expect a car to drive itself because it has an automatic transmission.

-- hide signature --

Z-Man

Sounds like you are answering something i never asked. I don't expect it to do everything for me - I know how the meter works and why it's there! I'm asking for tips, workaround etc.

I think you've already mentioned the answer, UniWB. Next best should be fixed daylight WB and neutral picture control - for the RGB histogram. But you still have to watch it, because in high DR the meter goes roughly after luminosity (predominantly green) & midtones, not red highlights. ADL might help sometimes if you don't fiddle with EC. But it may not help enough, and it may harm if you do fiddle with EC.

Although I'm not sure why the cameras should not be able to protect the reds sometime in this millenium. On second thought they just might and very soon, but we will not like it for some reason.

assuming you are shooting raw with uniwb, it really doesn't help, you still have to white balance to have a viewable picture

and most red channel problems are not in the raw data, it is the conversion to jpeg where the issue is created

+1

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Mikael Risedal
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Color space and profiles
In reply to M Lammerse, 8 months ago

Some of you have to learn about color space and profiles.

Use Prophoto instead of s-rgb or adobe rgb and chose a good profile to the subject or make one by your self with for example www.qpcard.com if the scene has intensive colors

Then proof the colors into a smaller colorspace as S-rgb or adobe rgb

I have No problems with colors and/or what ever I shoot with, Nikon, Sony, Canon

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

primeshooter wrote:

Has anyone else observed the D800's tendancy to overcook red in images. Tends to be worse if it's a reddish glow or light, even shooting raw sometimes I am noticing it has totally clipped all information and it's doing it regularly. Is UNIWB the answer, if so can someone go into more detail.

no I don't, and I use d800 daily in my work

If the scene has intensive colors, use a larger color space as Prophoto and select a good profile

se my answer about color space and profiles

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aut0maticdan
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Re: D800 totally cooking reds
In reply to primeshooter, 8 months ago

Can't say I have consistent issues with the D800 in this respect but there could be a lot of reasons for that. For times that I have color issues that are not (easily) correctible via WB adjustments in RAW processing, I use the awesome curves tool in Aperture. I find Aperture to have the most straightforward approach in this respect because you can stack many curves tools and have a separate one for just pulling down the highlights in the Red channel for instance.

This guy has an awesome four-part series on the Aperture curves feature:

http://photo.rwboyer.com/2014/01/23/aperture-3-curves-part-iv/

I'm sure much of it is applicable to other software, even if they're curves tools are not quite as elegant.

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