Couple of questions - Sony a6000

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Slynky
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Couple of questions - Sony a6000
8 months ago

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Thanks in advance.

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Sony a6000
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RobDJW
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

A lot you want to know you can find here http://www.alinpopescu.eu/blog/full-review-focus-tests-sony-a6000-beautiful-dream/

As for the lenses the 24 Zeiss, 35mm Sony, the 50mm Sony, and some more will benefit from the pdaf.

Greetings Rob.

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ryan92084
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

Slynky wrote:

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

Can't help with the resolving but here is the PDAF lens list

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

The spot is moved by using the top wheel and rear wheel for x/y axis adjustments.  DMF and peaking still exist

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Alin Popescu has the only full English review that I've seen to date.  Keep in mind that it is based off a pre production model and has since been proven incorrect about his PDAF in AF-s assumptions

Thanks in advance.

Sorry I can't help more.  The a6000 is just about to or already has launched in japan so hopefully we'll start getting more user reports soon.

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blue_skies
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

Slynky wrote:

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

Yes, the Nex-7 with the 24 Mp APS-C sensor does not get the full sensor resolution with some of the lenses, mostly kit, or the SW corrected lenses, particularly near the far edges.

The A6000, however, seems to use in-camera processing to reclaim some of this:

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pure-m/item/4905524974270/

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

The A6000 PDAF should do away with most of that need - DMF would be your preferred MF method.

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Yes, search for ILCE-6000 on the web, and you'll find plenty of images, most uploaded within last 4 weeks.

e.g. consider this (promotion) video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1bxnt6_sony-ilce-6000-interchangeable-lens-camera-a6000_videogames

Thanks in advance.

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Cheers,
Henry

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to RobDJW, 8 months ago

RobDJW wrote:

A lot you want to know you can find here http://www.alinpopescu.eu/blog/full-review-focus-tests-sony-a6000-beautiful-dream/

As for the lenses the 24 Zeiss, 35mm Sony, the 50mm Sony, and some more will benefit from the pdaf.

Greetings Rob.

Thanks for the reply. I'm in a rush and will check the link out later.

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to ryan92084, 8 months ago

ryan92084 wrote:

Slynky wrote:

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

Can't help with the resolving but here is the PDAF lens list

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

The spot is moved by using the top wheel and rear wheel for x/y axis adjustments. DMF and peaking still exist

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Alin Popescu has the only full English review that I've seen to date. Keep in mind that it is based off a pre production model and has since been proven incorrect about his PDAF in AF-s assumptions

Thanks in advance.

Sorry I can't help more. The a6000 is just about to or already has launched in japan so hopefully we'll start getting more user reports soon.

Some good info. Will check in depth later. Thanks

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to blue_skies, 8 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

Slynky wrote:

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

Yes, the Nex-7 with the 24 Mp APS-C sensor does not get the full sensor resolution with some of the lenses, mostly kit, or the SW corrected lenses, particularly near the far edges.

The A6000, however, seems to use in-camera processing to reclaim some of this:

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pure-m/item/4905524974270/

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

The A6000 PDAF should do away with most of that need - DMF would be your preferred MF method.

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Yes, search for ILCE-6000 on the web, and you'll find plenty of images, most uploaded within last 4 weeks.

e.g. consider this (promotion) video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1bxnt6_sony-ilce-6000-interchangeable-lens-camera-a6000_videogames

Thanks in advance.

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

Thanks Henry...been seeing you around the NEX forum FOREVER !

So, the a6000 tries to recover some of the resolution lost to lenses that aren't up to that 24MP quality...I'll have to read it later. Thanks !

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BlueBomberTurbo
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

http://www.photographyblog.com/previews/sony_a6000_photos/
Sample pics.  Definitely sharper than the NEX-6 at 100%.  Not sure about the NEX-7, but the high ISO should blow it away (NEX-6 is already noticeably better).

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mrbenji
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

So, the a6000 tries to recover some of the resolution lost to lenses that aren't up to that 24MP quality...I'll have to read it later. Thanks !

He's referring to Sony's "Diffraction Reduction" technology -- that doesn't actually have to do with compensating for glass that a sensor out-resolves. Instead, it's intended to compensate for the effects of diffraction... diffraction is a physical effect that causes reduced fine detail at high (small) apertures, regardless of how good the lens is.

A drawback to higher-megapixel sensors is that diffraction begins at larger apertures vs. lower-megapixel sensors of the same physical size (APS-C, FF, etc.). As I understand it, however, "diffraction limits" aren't hard limits beyond which image quality drops of a cliff, but rather are the beginning of a downward curve, i.e. they are the aperture number beyond which effective resolution begins to gradually erode.

I can't seem to find the most helpful (to me) diffraction calculator I've seen in my wanderings, but iirc a 16MP APS-C sensor starts showing diffraction effects at around f11 -- but as it's a gradual decline, that doesn't mean that the effects of greater DOF on sharpness will be overwhelmed by diffraction at, say, f16. In other words, there are situations where your composition and overall sharpness (due to DOF) will be clearly better-off at f16 or even f22, despite diffraction.

I assume the comparable diffraction limit for 24MP APS-C would be nearer to f8, but you've got higher resolution to begin with, so with a good lens I'd hope the effective resolution @f16 would remain superior to a 16MP APS-C @f16. With my layman's understanding of physics I certainly can't think of any way the effective resolution could be *worse* on a 24MP vs. a 16MP sensor of the same size, all other factors being equal.

I'd be interested, however, to hear from others who understand this better than I do.

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mrbenji
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to BlueBomberTurbo, 8 months ago

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

http://www.photographyblog.com/previews/sony_a6000_photos/
Sample pics. Definitely sharper than the NEX-6 at 100%. Not sure about the NEX-7, but the high ISO should blow it away (NEX-6 is already noticeably better).

Um... wow. This is the shot that blew me away:

http://img.photographyblog.com/reviews/sony_a6000/photos/sony_a6000_08.jpg

ISO 12800, and yet looks about as usable as ISO 800 is on my NEX-5! That's just my seat-of-the-pants analysis based on one image... in some conditions the NEX-5 @ISO1600 might also approach this, but it's crystal clear this is WORLDS better than my NEX-5 @3200. The prospect of being able to boost my ISO by 4-8X and still get results this good is making me dizzy!

The samples at ISO25600, on the other hand, are IMHO firmly in the only-use-if-desperate category.

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Euell
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to mrbenji, 8 months ago

mrbenji wrote:

So, the a6000 tries to recover some of the resolution lost to lenses that aren't up to that 24MP quality...I'll have to read it later. Thanks !

He's referring to Sony's "Diffraction Reduction" technology -- that doesn't actually have to do with compensating for glass that a sensor out-resolves. Instead, it's intended to compensate for the effects of diffraction... diffraction is a physical effect that causes reduced fine detail at high (small) apertures, regardless of how good the lens is.

A drawback to higher-megapixel sensors is that diffraction begins at larger apertures vs. lower-megapixel sensors of the same physical size (APS-C, FF, etc.). As I understand it, however, "diffraction limits" aren't hard limits beyond which image quality drops of a cliff, but rather are the beginning of a downward curve, i.e. they are the aperture number beyond which effective resolution begins to gradually erode.

Is that accurate? I believe that diffraction is not dependent on the resolution of the sensor, but rather on the physical size of the sensor (e.g., APSC, full frame, etc.).  Increasing the resolution of the same size sensor should not increase diffraction at the same F stop.

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mrbenji
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Euell, 8 months ago

Euell wrote:

Is that accurate? I believe that diffraction is not dependent on the resolution of the sensor, but rather on the physical size of the sensor (e.g., APSC, full frame, etc.). Increasing the resolution of the same size sensor should not increase diffraction at the same F stop.

Well, the size of the diffraction effect (a.k.a. the "airy disc") at a given F stop is always the same size regardless of the sensor's resolution, but the sensor size ALSO doesn't affect the "airy disc's" size.

Sensor size AND resolution are relevant, though, because diffraction doesn't negatively affect resolution until the "airy disc" is larger than a single pixel -- on a higher resolution sensor of the same size the individual pixels are smaller, so the effects of diffraction will be visible earlier. *This,* and not the actual sensor size, is why, for instance, a 24MP APS-C sensor will begin to experience the effects of diffraction earlier than a 24MP FF sensor will... what matters is the size of the pixels, not the size of the sensor.

The size of the "airy disc" is larger than the pixels on 16MP APS-C sensor by about f11, but it exceeds the size of the smaller pixels on a 24MP APS-C sensor by about f8.

The easiest-to-understand description I've found so far is this one:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm

Anyway, the fact the "airy disc" is always the same size at a given f-stop is why I said I can't fathom how a higher resolution sensor's "effective resolution" could ever be worse on a lower resolution sensor than a higher-resolution's "effective resolution" at the same f-stop. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if at very small apertures their effective resolutions began to converge.

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Euell
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to mrbenji, 8 months ago

mrbenji wrote:

Euell wrote:

Is that accurate? I believe that diffraction is not dependent on the resolution of the sensor, but rather on the physical size of the sensor (e.g., APSC, full frame, etc.). Increasing the resolution of the same size sensor should not increase diffraction at the same F stop.

Well, the size of the diffraction effect (a.k.a. the "airy disc") at a given F stop is always the same size regardless of the sensor's resolution, but the sensor size ALSO doesn't affect the "airy disc's" size.

Sensor size AND resolution are relevant, though, because diffraction doesn't negatively affect resolution until the "airy disc" is larger than a single pixel -- on a higher resolution sensor of the same size the individual pixels are smaller, so the effects of diffraction will be visible earlier. *This,* and not the actual sensor size, is why, for instance, a 24MP APS-C sensor will begin to experience the effects of diffraction earlier than a 24MP FF sensor will... what matters is the size of the pixels, not the size of the sensor.

The size of the "airy disc" is larger than the pixels on 16MP APS-C sensor by about f11, but it exceeds the size of the smaller pixels on a 24MP APS-C sensor by about f8.

The easiest-to-understand description I've found so far is this one:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm

Anyway, the fact the "airy disc" is always the same size at a given f-stop is why I said I can't fathom how a higher resolution sensor's "effective resolution" could ever be worse on a lower resolution sensor than a higher-resolution's "effective resolution" at the same f-stop. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if at very small apertures their effective resolutions began to converge.

I don't disagree with you, just your terminology. The effects of diffraction indeed may vary dependent upon pixel density, but that is a phenomenon other than diffraction.

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Slynky
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In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

...to answer but I wanted to view all the information people had provided me. I pride myself on trying to answer and thank people who spent their time replying. (my other hobby is working as an extra in movies and TV and I was quite busy this week working on the set of "The Originals").

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to RobDJW, 8 months ago

RobDJW wrote:

A lot you want to know you can find here http://www.alinpopescu.eu/blog/full-review-focus-tests-sony-a6000-beautiful-dream/

As for the lenses the 24 Zeiss, 35mm Sony, the 50mm Sony, and some more will benefit from the pdaf.

Greetings Rob.

Interesting link. Nice gallery of photos with 3 different lenses. That one test shot at ISO 2500 with MFNR was quite impressive ! The comments he provided on the different lenses were interesting. Of course, that doesn't address my current set of lenses. The Zeiss zoom looks interesting--partly because of the zoom not by wire. But, there's that price thing...hehe.

Thanks for your post.

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to ryan92084, 8 months ago

ryan92084 wrote:

Slynky wrote:

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

Can't help with the resolving but here is the PDAF lens list

Looks like my lenses are listed. I vaguely recall there being a way to upgrade the lenses somehow but I've never needed to so can't recall what's to be done. That would make them work with hybrid focusing (leaving only the issue of lens resolution).

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

The spot is moved by using the top wheel and rear wheel for x/y axis adjustments. DMF and peaking still exist

Thanks. I leave my current NEX 5N bodies set to DMF and use when focusing is critical. That would probably be my favored choice. I'm guessing it's not to hard to spin these dials with the right index finger if one wanted to pursue this approach.

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Alin Popescu has the only full English review that I've seen to date. Keep in mind that it is based off a pre production model and has since been proven incorrect about his PDAF in AF-s assumptions

I was just at that informative link--some interesting info. Wish the photos were bigger than 1200 on the long side.

Thanks for your info.

Thanks in advance.

Sorry I can't help more. The a6000 is just about to or already has launched in japan so hopefully we'll start getting more user reports soon.

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to blue_skies, 8 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

Slynky wrote:

So, I have a couple of NEX 5N bodies I really like and I'm considering the subject camera but...

(1) Will the camera out-resolve the current lenses I have (and hope to use)? I have the old 18-200, the 16 pancake, and the 50 1.8. I remember reading something (some time back) about how some lenses wouldn't work with phase detect focusing.

Yes, the Nex-7 with the 24 Mp APS-C sensor does not get the full sensor resolution with some of the lenses, mostly kit, or the SW corrected lenses, particularly near the far edges.

The A6000, however, seems to use in-camera processing to reclaim some of this:

http://global.rakuten.com/en/store/pure-m/item/4905524974270/

Link seems to be mostly in Japanese.

(2) I like the touch screen and not having it worries me. Among other things, I like being able to touch a spot where I know I want to focus and BINGO, I'm set. How does one pick an item to focus on without touch screen. I also make use of DMF and (yellow) peaking for some critical focusing.

The A6000 PDAF should do away with most of that need - DMF would be your preferred MF method.

Thanks. I currently make use of DMF so it would be an easy transition for me.

(3) Are there any preliminary images out there yet--I'm sure DPR has their hands full and hasn't had time to put any out yet.

Yes, search for ILCE-6000 on the web, and you'll find plenty of images, most uploaded within last 4 weeks.

e.g. consider this (promotion) video: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1bxnt6_sony-ilce-6000-interchangeable-lens-camera-a6000_videogames

ILCE 6000 and a6000... are they the same camera? Confusing...

Thanks, Henry.

Thanks in advance.

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Cheers,
Henry

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In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

In another life, I served some duty as a 2nd Second AD - the person in charge of handling and organizing the extras.  Hate to say it, but the extras are usually MUCH more fun to hang with than the main cast.  

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Slynky
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to BlueBomberTurbo, 8 months ago

BlueBomberTurbo wrote:

http://www.photographyblog.com/previews/sony_a6000_photos/
Sample pics. Definitely sharper than the NEX-6 at 100%. Not sure about the NEX-7, but the high ISO should blow it away (NEX-6 is already noticeably better).

Thanks for the info and link. Yes, some of those outdoor pics are somewhat impressive. @ ISO 100. It seems I shoot a lot of indoor scenes (I hate flash) @ about 3200 and this camera looks quite capable at that speed.

Thanks for the info.

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 Slynky's gear list:Slynky's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +3 more
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ryan92084
Regular MemberPosts: 478Gear list
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Re: Couple of questions - Sony a6000
In reply to Slynky, 8 months ago

Ilce6000 (interchangable lens camera?) Would be the official model number of the a6000. The number can be appended with 'B' or 'S' for the color and an additional letter for one of the various kits with 'L' being the sel1650.

 ryan92084's gear list:ryan92084's gear list
Sony a6000 Sony E 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 PZ OSS +3 more
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