Canon g1 x mark 2 review

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
hawat
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Like?
Canon g1 x mark 2 review
8 months ago

It looks like dc watch just posted a review of the canon g1 x2.

http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/review/special/20140314_638162.html

 hawat's gear list:hawat's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Canon EOS 350D
Canon PowerShot G1 X
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
hawat
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Like?
gizmodo.jp review
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

Here is another review from gizmodo.jp

http://www.gizmodo.jp/2014/03/powershot_g1_x_mark_ll.html

 hawat's gear list:hawat's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Canon EOS 350D
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
flypaul
Junior MemberPosts: 32
Like?
Re: Canon g1 x mark 2 review
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

It's a good review -using translate. Thanks for posting. The full size images look excellent.

I'm a happy G1 X owner, but this cam may well tick all the right boxes and get me to upgrade.

cheers,

Flypaul.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
afm
afm
Regular MemberPosts: 199Gear list
Like?
G1X 2 review
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

I am sure these are great so long as you can understand Chinese. As always, Cameralabs.com will be one of the first with a full and comprehensive review.

 afm's gear list:afm's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm X-E2 Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Jote
Regular MemberPosts: 176Gear list
Like?
Re: G1X 2 review
In reply to afm, 8 months ago

afm wrote:

I am sure these are great so long as you can understand Chinese.

Actually, no. Understanding Japanese would seem to be a more desirable skill for reading articles in Japanese.

 Jote's gear list:Jote's gear list
Canon PowerShot G7 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-RX10
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Mark9473
Contributing MemberPosts: 806Gear list
Like?
Re: Canon g1 x mark 2 review
In reply to flypaul, 8 months ago

flypaul wrote:

The full size images look excellent.

Really? I find the flower shots all extremely soft to be honest.

-- hide signature --

Mark

 Mark9473's gear list:Mark9473's gear list
Olympus E-520 Olympus E-30 Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50-200mm 1:2.8-3.5 SWD Olympus Zuiko Digital 14-54mm 1:2.8-3.5 Olympus SZ-10 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
flypaul
Junior MemberPosts: 32
Like?
Re: Canon g1 x mark 2 review
In reply to Mark9473, 8 months ago

Mark9473 wrote:

flypaul wrote:

The full size images look excellent.

Really? I find the flower shots all extremely soft to be honest.

-- hide signature --

Mark

The f2 macro shots display very shallow depth of field - as to be expected. If you look at the following images they sharpen at f4

The dried fish shot seem good edge to edge.

That'll do it from me as I'm not one to get involved in wanky back and forth banter.

Cheers,

Flypaul.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Marco Nero
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,060Gear list
Like?
Samples seem to show more than just image softness...
In reply to flypaul, 8 months ago

Mark9473 wrote:

I find the flower shots all extremely soft to be honest.
-- hide signature --

Mark

Some VERY heated discussions on the Japanese forums the night before last. They were discussing how soft the Macro shots were and upon viewing some, I am prone to agree with them. The shots I saw were simple and showed a very shallow DOF. Even with this effect in place, there was a considerable softness to the images, even the areas meant to be sharp. But what I am seeing in these new images is not a natural blur to the background.
.
Below is a crop from one of the official Canon images from the G1X Mk2.  It shows an artificially blurred background and you can see how the blur continues across the shoulder of the model.  The image processor software produced a halo or smudge of skin tone across the contrasting area of the shoulder and it has a softening effect on the overall portrait.  It looks like the effect used with the Macro shots below.
.

G1X-Mk2 - defocussed background effect..
Looking at the samples shown on this thread (especially the Flower Macros), they are REALLY soft. Take a look a the yellow flower first... then the Pink one. They both look like they have Vaseline on the lens. Sure, DOF is playing a part but since we know the camera has a software element to deliberately blur the backgrounds, I'm wondering if it is being applied here in Macro by default.

G1X-MkII / F2.2 / 1/2,000 / +0.7EV / ISO100 / 12.5mm

G!X-MkII / F2 / 1/500 / +1.3EV / ISO100 / 12.5mm
The colors and composition are great. But these are pretty awful.  It REALLY looks like what they used to call the "cheesecake cloth" effect:  When actresses didn't want the camera to show their wrinkles or flawed skin between the 1920s to the 1970s, they would drape a soft mesh cloth (designed to keep flies off the cheesecake) over the lens to soften the image.  That's exactly what these two images look like.  Viewing the Pink flower at 100% is something of a frightening experience.
.
Now that I've had a closer look at the images, I feel pretty confident in saying that they exhibit no bokeh at all, just an out of focus background that appears to be over-softened.  Deliberately. 
When I look at my own Macro shots (closeup shots) taken with my G1X Mk1, the one thing I notice is that there's a true bokeh in the background.  Scroll up the the new G1X MkII shots and the difference in the background becomes much more apparent.  How do we know that these images are "faked" in-camera instead of portraying a real background softness?  Well, the blur continues across the areas that are supposed to be in focus.  It's rather pronounced.  Shots like the fish etc did not appear to have been taken in "Macro Mode".
.
The ONE major thing that had me looking seriously at the G1X Mk II is the addition of a built-in Macro.  A good Macro ability is essential for me if I am to purchase this camera and hang up the old one.  Right now it's looking less likely at this stage.  A lot less likely.
.
[images below from the original G1X Mk1 + Closeup Filters]

G1X Mk1+ Closeup Filter

G1X Mk1 + Closeup Filter

G1X Mk1 + Closeup Filter

G1X Mk1 + Closeup Filter

G1X Mk1 + Closeup Filter

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Marco Nero.
www.pbase.com/nero_design

 Marco Nero's gear list:Marco Nero's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon PowerShot G1 X Canon EOS 60D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS M +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
kona_moon
Regular MemberPosts: 184
Like?
"Soft at minimum focus distance and aperture wide open"
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

...that's what the reviewer wrote in Japanese.  He also noted that it is remedied by either stepping down a little (he did not mention how little) or increasing the focus distance.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
hawat
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Like?
Re: Samples seem to show more than just image softness...
In reply to Marco Nero, 8 months ago

Marco Nero wrote:

Mark9473 wrote:

I find the flower shots all extremely soft to be honest.

-- hide signature --

Mark

Some VERY heated discussions on the Japanese forums the night before last. They were discussing how soft the Macro shots were and upon viewing some, I am prone to agree with them. The shots I saw were simple and showed a very shallow DOF. Even with this effect in place, there was a considerable softness to the images, even the areas meant to be sharp. But what I am seeing in these new images is not a natural blur to the background.
.
Below is a crop from one of the official Canon images from the G1X Mk2. It shows an artificially blurred background and you can see how the blur continues across the shoulder of the model. The image processor software produced a halo or smudge of skin tone across the contrasting area of the shoulder and it has a softening effect on the overall portrait. It looks like the effect used with the Macro shots below.

Are you talking about that discussion on kakaku.com? http://bbs.kakaku.com/bbs/K0000623024/#17296311

The poster of the macro picture (tundraco) is saying that at max aperture there is some kind of fog when using macro mode but when reducing it, its ok.

When not using macro mode he doesn't seem to have a problem as well. That is a bit worrying but I hope more people will show up with their own macro picture to confirm or not this problem.

 hawat's gear list:hawat's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Canon EOS 350D
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rpm40
Senior MemberPosts: 1,935Gear list
Like?
Re: Samples seem to show more than just image softness...
In reply to Marco Nero, 8 months ago

Marco,

I think you may be on to something with the background defocus setting having a negative effect on the quality of some of the samples we are seeing. That said, I think it is also quite a challenge for a compact lens with fast aperture to give sharp macro shots wide open. This is really a tall task for the lens- the same issue was heavily discussed when the rx100 was first released. Many posts popped up asking "why is my image soft when shooting at f1.8 from 2 inches?" Look how small the camera is while sporting a large sensor and fast lens, and you'll see that compromises needed to be made, especially to keep the price reasonable.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that the G1Xii doesn't give the sharpest results at f2.0 in macro situations. But then, you could also ask, how sharp is the G1X at f2.0 in macro situations?

If the lens sharpens up for macros when stopped down a stop or two, its totally acceptable to me. I am more concerned about sharpness wide open at more normal working distances where a fast lens matters- ie. taking shots of people indoors, in low light.

 rpm40's gear list:rpm40's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus PEN E-PM2 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Marco Nero
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,060Gear list
Like?
Re: "Soft at minimum focus distance and aperture wide open"
In reply to kona_moon, 8 months ago

kona_moon wrote:

...that's what the reviewer wrote in Japanese. He also noted that it is remedied by either stepping down a little (he did not mention how little) or increasing the focus distance.

You may hove something there.  Going through my G1X Macro shots, I don't think any were taken at f/2.8.  Even without Closeup Filters, the typical shot I have taken seems to be around f/5.0
.
I still feel that there's something artificial going on with the backgrounds which blends into the foreground images.  I would hope that this is something that can be turned off.

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Marco Nero.
www.pbase.com/nero_design

 Marco Nero's gear list:Marco Nero's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon PowerShot G1 X Canon EOS 60D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS M +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tonkotsu Ramen
Senior MemberPosts: 1,289Gear list
Like?
Re: Samples seem to show more than just image softness...
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

It's the same issue the RX100/100M2 have, soft close ups at F1.8

It goes away at or near F2.8

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
The reason true macro lenses aren't wide or fast.
In reply to kona_moon, 8 months ago

kona_moon wrote:

...that's what the reviewer wrote in Japanese.  He also noted that it is remedied by either stepping down a little (he did not mention how little) or increasing the focus distance.

If you look at true macro lenses (1:1) you'll notice they are always prime (Canon, anyway) and never wide or super-fast.  Why?  Zoom is a pain even without super close minimum focusing distance.  Fast with zoom is an even bigger pain.  When we see some shots posted with the original RAW files maybe we can draw some conclusions.  I haven't seen any RAW files yet and I don't think anyone has been terribly specific about what the camera's settiings are as far as JPEG processing.  And the Mark II lens starts at 12.5mm!  Holy crap!  I would expect it to be extremely soft wide open and at wide angle, but it really is surprisingly good.

Either way, if you can stop the camera down and get sharp macros it would still be an amazing lens.  Not only that, but were these macro shots done in stable conditions?  I don't see any sign of motion blur, but I also see pictures that look great despite not being tack sharp like a stopped down 100mm f/2.8 IS.  Everything I've seen makes the camera look like a killer.  The extra zoom range, decent macro distance, fast lens, detail, and low noise are very promising.

 howardroark's gear list:howardroark's gear list
Canon PowerShot G1 X
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
peter_friend
Contributing MemberPosts: 832
Like?
Re: "Soft at minimum focus distance and aperture wide open"
In reply to Marco Nero, 8 months ago

Hello Marco,

First, sorry for so-so English. The more I see photos taken with the Canon G1X mark ii, the more I am disappointed. Your macro photos with the original G1X and conversion lens are vastly more beautiful and contrasting the pictures of the new mark ii. I myself bought it two years ago a lensmate 250 to macro and G1X first version does wonders. I'm pretty sure now but keep my old faithful G1X. If I had to buy a compact, I think I would go with the first version G1X.
For several years companies like Canon have the distressing habit of making new products but demoting. I can save for other things more useful.
Thank you very much Marco. Thanks to you, I bought the G1X in March 2012 and macro lenses. I admire your work as a photographer and as an analyst cameras. One day perhaps the G1X mark iii?? Peter.

Marco Nero wrote:

kona_moon wrote:

...that's what the reviewer wrote in Japanese. He also noted that it is remedied by either stepping down a little (he did not mention how little) or increasing the focus distance.

You may hove something there. Going through my G1X Macro shots, I don't think any were taken at f/2.8. Even without Closeup Filters, the typical shot I have taken seems to be around f/5.0
.
I still feel that there's something artificial going on with the backgrounds which blends into the foreground images. I would hope that this is something that can be turned off.

-- hide signature --

Regards,
Marco Nero.
www.pbase.com/nero_design

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Grobb
Senior MemberPosts: 1,229Gear list
Like?
Re: Samples seem to show more than just image softness...
In reply to Marco Nero, 8 months ago

Marco Nero wrote:

Mark9473 wrote:

I find the flower shots all extremely soft to be honest.

-- hide signature --

Mark

Some VERY heated discussions on the Japanese forums the night before last. They were discussing how soft the Macro shots were and upon viewing some, I am prone to agree with them. The shots I saw were simple and showed a very shallow DOF. Even with this effect in place, there was a considerable softness to the images, even the areas meant to be sharp. But what I am seeing in these new images is not a natural blur to the background.

-- hide signature --

Marco Nero.

Marco... I have a theory and would like your opinion. I read in one of Canons own marketing brochures that "The G1X Mark II images at 400 ISO will have the same noise as the G1X at 1600 ISO". They gave the credit to the newer processor and it's ability to reduce noise. If they are in fact using the same (or very similar) sensor as the G1X has, could the problem extend to more than just macro shooting? To me, if you increase noise reduction by 4x wouldn't that also reduce sharpness? In the original 23 images from another thread, I really did not find any of them (macros or not) that were really sharp or had fine detail in them. What do you (or anyone else) think, could that also be a contributing factor?

-- hide signature --

Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rpm40
Senior MemberPosts: 1,935Gear list
Like?
Re: Samples seem to show more than just image softness...
In reply to Grobb, 8 months ago

tron555 wrote:

Marco Nero wrote:

Mark9473 wrote:

I find the flower shots all extremely soft to be honest.

-- hide signature --

Mark

Some VERY heated discussions on the Japanese forums the night before last. They were discussing how soft the Macro shots were and upon viewing some, I am prone to agree with them. The shots I saw were simple and showed a very shallow DOF. Even with this effect in place, there was a considerable softness to the images, even the areas meant to be sharp. But what I am seeing in these new images is not a natural blur to the background.

-- hide signature --

Marco Nero.

Marco... I have a theory and would like your opinion. I read in one of Canons own marketing brochures that "The G1X Mark II images at 400 ISO will have the same noise as the G1X at 1600 ISO". They gave the credit to the newer processor and it's ability to reduce noise. If they are in fact using the same (or very similar) sensor as the G1X has, could the problem extend to more than just macro shooting? To me, if you increase noise reduction by 4x wouldn't that also reduce sharpness? In the original 23 images from another thread, I really did not find any of them (macros or not) that were really sharp or had fine detail in them. What do you (or anyone else) think, could that also be a contributing factor?

-- hide signature --

Growing old is inevitable, Growing up is optional!

Its a possibility that some of the reduction in noise comes from a better noise reduction allowed by a more capable processor. It is also possible that some comes from a heavier use of noise reduction. I think the original G1X took a pretty conservative approach to noise reduction, which I liked, so I suppose they could think there's room to turn it up. Still, I would be shocked if they did nothing aside from increase the noise reduction- if that were the case, they could essentially reuse the old Digic and crank the NR to high.

I'm not expecting miracles from this sensor/processor combination- probably only a small improvement over the previous model- but for me, it will be more than good enough for what it is. A slight IQ improvement and a much faster lens will still make the camera a whole lot more capable in low light. Heck, Canon loves to protect it's bread and butter so they probably don't want the sensor to be too good anyway, right?

 rpm40's gear list:rpm40's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus PEN E-PM2 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 14-42mm 1:3.5-5.6 II R +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
hawat
Forum MemberPosts: 91Gear list
Like?
Kakaku.com review
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

Kakaku has just posted a review as well. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to see their pictures in decent size?

http://kakaku.com/article/pr/14/03_g1xmk2/

 hawat's gear list:hawat's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-LX5 Canon EOS 350D
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
boblu
Regular MemberPosts: 345Gear list
Like?
Re: Kakaku.com review
In reply to hawat, 8 months ago

Seems to me just keep my G16. If these are true, I will past the Mark II.

 boblu's gear list:boblu's gear list
Canon PowerShot ELPH 330 HS Nikon 1 V1 Canon EOS M Canon EOS 6D Nikon 1 Nikkor 18.5mm f/1.8 +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
Re: Kakaku.com review
In reply to boblu, 8 months ago

boblu wrote:

Seems to me just keep my G16. If these are true, I will past the Mark II.

If what are true?

 howardroark's gear list:howardroark's gear list
Canon PowerShot G1 X
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads