The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
xml6000
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The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
6 months ago

Statistically-speaking, capture-date stipulations reduce the talent-gene-pool of submission entries.

I think that's a great shame because some photographers may have invested a day capturing pizza dough being tossed or, juice squirting (frozen by flash) from a firm orange as a blunt knife suddenly breaches the outer defences of its skin (I think we get the idea).

Surely, providing an image hasn't been previously entered in another challenge, why make a prejudicial-distinction against it because it was taken last week, last year, - or in the 70's?

In my eyes, talent is talent - and in these liberal times is it really right to deny someone's entry based on the date it was captured?

I accept that challenge guidelines and rules need adhering to otherwise chaos rules supreme - but who wouldn't like to see a newly discovered work by Picasso or the 60's photographer David Bailey - or someone yet unknown - but brilliant - today?

Time (moreover a time restraint) produces nothing whatsoever in a tangible sense. But people do - every day - the world over - and to refuse their work a showcase based on a 'rule of time'' smacks of a discriminatory action in my mind.

I appeal to all who set challenges to consider the wider picture of the points I've raised here - unless someone has a compelling argument for keeping date-stipulations firmly in place?

Over to you.

billythek
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

There's relatively few challenges with capture date requirements. I welcome the ones that do have that requirement. It is a lot tougher to go out and capture, on the demand of time pressure, a good shot. Think of it as trying to meet the deadline of a newspaper or magazine. It's a good exercise.
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Skylane
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

Of the 37 challenges open for voting at the moment ONE has a capture date rule, all others have "no restrictions". The one challenge with a capture date rule is "My Best Photo this Week".
The fact that the rules form has a capture date box does not mean every challenge is restricted by date. I think the hosts do not restrict talent with this rule.

I can assure you that Piscasso and Baily are not members of DPR. If you intend to show other peoples work, be sure to make it known.

You have been a member less then three weeks and it shows.

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Charlie

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ConanFuji
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to Skylane, 6 months ago

Of the 37 challenges open for voting at the moment ONE has a capture date rule, all others have "no restrictions". The one challenge with a capture date rule is "My Best Photo this Week".
The fact that the rules form has a capture date box does not mean every challenge is restricted by date. I think the hosts do not restrict talent with this rule.

I can assure you that Piscasso and Baily are not members of DPR. If you intend to show other peoples work, be sure to make it known.

You have been a member less then three weeks and it shows.

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Charlie

He may be a new member, but from what he typed he gives me an impression of being an old hand at photography. (Which is what this site is about)

I do think the capture date is difficult to enforce which is a pity. If you look at fujimugs.com, the entries are very refreshing.

However the concept of these dates do have a meaning in competitions. For example why does the Academy only consider movies which are shown in a particular time-frame? Why can't last year's winner compete again with the same movie?

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Skylane
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to ConanFuji, 6 months ago

I get worn thin from time to time. How often does a  good photographer  come to this forum all fired up to make changes to challenges when it was obivious they did not know what they were talking about and that those subjects have been discussed just about forever in this forum.

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Charlie

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LeeBic
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

A capture date rule for a challenge of the MY Best Photo This Week? This ridiculous crap has got to STOP!

One challenge in 37 has a capture date rule? Even if it may seem to make sense that is to many!!

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xml6000
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to Skylane, 6 months ago

Skylane wrote:

I get worn thin from time to time. How often does a good photographer come to this forum all fired up to make changes to challenges when it was obivious they did not know what they were talking about and that those subjects have been discussed just about forever in this forum.

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Charlie

Let me reassure you that I am far from being in a 'fired-up' state. I simply don't believe that chronology should be permitted dictate what can and cannot be seen - and appreciated by the general public and fellow photographic-artists alike.

I appreciate that only a small number of challenges now stipulate the date rule. However, such a rule could potentially exclude a hundred or so photographers from participation.

Where is the democracy in that?

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Michael73
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

The host is challenging us to go and photograph something. He is not challenging us to look through our files to find a photo. The two challenges are quite different and to suggest that the former discriminates against those who would prefer to do the latter seems to me to be daft.

Regards Michael

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Skylane
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

Are you aware that each challenge has a "maximum number of entries" limit?

The current "My Best Photo of the Week" had a limit of 100 entries, there are 99 entries in the challenge at the voting stage, so no one got left out.
Most challenges have no date limit.

Every democracy I have ever heard of has rules, otherwise chaos runs supreme.

While we are here, you could help out and make the challenges better by voting a little more.

Voting is important to any democracy.

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Charlie

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xml6000
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to LeeBic, 6 months ago

LeeBic wrote:

A capture date rule for a challenge of the MY Best Photo This Week? This ridiculous crap has got to STOP!

One challenge in 37 has a capture date rule? Even if it may seem to make sense that is to many!!

OK, but what about: Challenge #3 in the Bring your camera everywhere series this week. Hosted by Rocky ID Olympian.

What if, (up until the 27th of February just gone) I had indeed been carrying my camera everywhere and had captured an exposure to blow most peoples socks off during my lunch hour - as suggested by the challenge?

Now, if I'm a stickler for the rules, that once in a lifetime exposure will never see the light of day - on DPREVIEW. Is that what a photography site is truly all about?

I'm confident that if I care to trawl through the last months worth of challenges that I'll find several more requiring the date-rule.

Of course nobody other than yourself is pointing out that: 'My best photo of the week' is the only example that can be attacked by my argument.

Wow, some of you guys are real light-weights when it comes to a debate that requires a little uncommon sense.

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merops
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

xml6000 wrote:

Statistically-speaking, capture-date stipulations reduce the talent-gene-pool of submission entries.

...

Hi xml6000,

Welcome to the Challenges Forum.

About the only thing that everyone would agree on is that there is huge diversity in opinions about the Challenges

For myself, I believe that - given the nature of the DPR 'community' - one of their primary roles is to offer an opportunity to many people to take part and get some feedback on their photography, and perhaps even get a little pleasure from doing well. One of the ways in which this s fostered is by the diversity of challenges - in terms of their subjects and rules. There's something for (almost) everyone, and the flip side of rules that exclude some entries or entrants, is that these same rules 'protect' space for other entries or entrants. I would therefore argue that the diversity of rules increases (rather than reduces) the 'talent-gene-pool' of submission entries (in the same way that environmental diversity protects species and genetic diversity, since you raise the 'gene pool' metaphor).

I recently voted an entry very highly that subsequently won its Challenge, so I was interested to see what other people thought of the photo. One of the comments pointed out that the same photo had already won challenges before (in August 2013 and September 2013). In the last month or so, I have also come across two photos that had been entered previously in challenges (within the previous few weeks) contrary to the rules of the second Challenge. I did not set out to find such entries - I simply remembered them (and could even relocate them). I vote on perhaps less than 10% of challenges, so who knows how much re-entry goes on (not all of which will be against challenge rules). Re-entry rules are difficult to police compared to date of capture rules (I know that EXIF data can be manipulated, but there are also people on here that seem to know how to detect it). Capture date rules are one of the means to keep diversity high.

Rejoice in the diversity of Challenges, and keep you pizza dough photo for another Challenge which doesn't have an entry date restriction.

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merops
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

xml6000 wrote:

...

OK, but what about: Challenge #3 in the Bring your camera everywhere series this week. Hosted by Rocky ID Olympian.

What if, (up until the 27th of February just gone) I had indeed been carrying my camera everywhere and had captured an exposure to blow most peoples socks off during my lunch hour - as suggested by the challenge?

Now, if I'm a stickler for the rules, that once in a lifetime exposure will never see the light of day - on DPREVIEW. Is that what a photography site is truly all about?

..

Are you trying to tell us that this photo that's going to blow most people's socks off is never going to be eligible for anyother challenge on DPR? Boll..., uh, I mean Balderdash!

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xml6000
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to merops, 6 months ago

merops wrote:

xml6000 wrote:

...

OK, but what about: Challenge #3 in the Bring your camera everywhere series this week. Hosted by Rocky ID Olympian.

What if, (up until the 27th of February just gone) I had indeed been carrying my camera everywhere and had captured an exposure to blow most peoples socks off during my lunch hour - as suggested by the challenge?

Now, if I'm a stickler for the rules, that once in a lifetime exposure will never see the light of day - on DPREVIEW. Is that what a photography site is truly all about?

..

Are you trying to tell us that this photo that's going to blow most people's socks off is never going to be eligible for anyother challenge on DPR? Boll..., uh, I mean Balderdash!

My point is that one can't share ones work, with those who one wants, when one wants to. Yes, a future challenge may accommodate the image - but what if ones photograph is poignant - a topical image - a time sensitive image - fitting the week in mention extremely well - tying in perhaps with a big news story - a fleeting trend - a fad - a new idea?

What then, for 'democracy'?

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merops
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

xml6000 wrote:

merops wrote:

xml6000 wrote:

...

OK, but what about: Challenge #3 in the Bring your camera everywhere series this week. Hosted by Rocky ID Olympian.

What if, (up until the 27th of February just gone) I had indeed been carrying my camera everywhere and had captured an exposure to blow most peoples socks off during my lunch hour - as suggested by the challenge?

Now, if I'm a stickler for the rules, that once in a lifetime exposure will never see the light of day - on DPREVIEW. Is that what a photography site is truly all about?

..

Are you trying to tell us that this photo that's going to blow most people's socks off is never going to be eligible for anyother challenge on DPR? Boll..., uh, I mean Balderdash!

My point is that one can't share ones work, with those who one wants, when one wants to. Yes, a future challenge may accommodate the image - but what if ones photograph is poignant - a topical image - a time sensitive image - fitting the week in mention extremely well - tying in perhaps with a big news story - a fleeting trend - a fad - a new idea?

If it's that good, you're hardly likely to post it on DPR

What then, for 'democracy'?

Whoah. Let's get real about when democracy, right to free speech, etc really matter. It's not when discussing posting photos on DPR.

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santamonica812
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

xml6000 wrote:

My point is that one can't share ones work, with those who one wants, when one wants to. Yes, a future challenge may accommodate the image - but what if ones photograph is poignant - a topical image - a time sensitive image - fitting the week in mention extremely well - tying in perhaps with a big news story - a fleeting trend - a fad - a new idea?

What then, for 'democracy'?

As first I thought you were trying to make a serious point. Now, I realize that you are just concern-trolling. No worries . . . this forum takes all comers.

The word "democracy" does not mean what you think it means. What if an amazing 33 year old comes along who would be a great president of the United States, but he's not allowed to run for office? (The "rules" [ie, the Constitution] requires someone at least 35 years old) The people of the USA would be prevented from voting for the best person. Where's the democracy in that? And I have an amazing sunset photo . . . the best we all have ever seen. Why can't I enter it into the "Take a photo of your dog" challenge on this website? Where's the democracy in that?

The answer is: we live in a world of rules and laws. Some we like; some we don't like. But as a society, we make a social compact to live by the enacted rules. (And we try to change the ones we don't like.) I used to teach 3rd and 5th graders, back in the day. The younger blokes still struggled with having to follow the rules. By the 5th Grade, most students saw the need to do so

And yes, that means that I (a middle-aged man) am not allowed to enter my photos into a Girl Scout Talent Contest, which may mean that the world is deprived of seeing evidence of my photographic brilliance. I will have to console myself with entering into the other 154,912 other photography challenges and contests that are available to me. Although my lips will tremble with the utter injustice and unfairness of this deprivation, I must somehow find the strength to soldier on and pick up the pieces from my now-shattered life.

(If you or anyone looks at my history of post, you'll see a marked lack of snark and mean-spiritedness . . . I hope, at least. But your series of posts in this thread is--I find--really remarkable. You have a sense of entitlement that has left me bemused. And amused. And shocked and appalled. And a bunch of other adjectives not fit for a family-oriented website.)

Welcome to the site, and to the challenges. I hope your attitude changes once you have a few more weeks under your belt.

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merops
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to santamonica812, 6 months ago

santamonica812 wrote:

..

...

(If you or anyone looks at my history of post, you'll see a marked lack of snark and mean-spiritedness . . . I hope, at least. But your series of posts in this thread is--I find--really remarkable. You have a sense of entitlement that has left me bemused. And amused. And shocked and appalled. And a bunch of other adjectives not fit for a family-oriented website.)

I think you called it right in the first sentence of your post - or as I half said in mine: Bollox

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tasad
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to xml6000, 6 months ago

What game are you playing here ?

You have cheated on the date taken rule in this challenge :

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=590637

http://www.dpreview.com/members/2633223631/galleries

In the challenge , entries should be taken after 19th February , 2012 . Your entry was "taken " on 25th February , 2012 :

...

... but your Flickr account shows , that it was taken on 10th June , 2011 :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/notts_photos/5817446473/in/photostream/

...

Recently you have opened another account :

http://www.dpreview.com/members/5847064165/overview

... and entered the image in to the challenge with the rule : "  No pictures entered in previous challenges "

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=815180

...

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merops
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to tasad, 6 months ago

tasad wrote:

What game are you playing here ?

You have cheated on the date taken rule in this challenge :

http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=590637

http://www.dpreview.com/members/2633223631/galleries

In the challenge , entries should be taken after 19th February , 2012 . Your entry was "taken " on 25th February , 2012 :

...

Brilliant tasad. I think I've just fallen in love with you

I was going to ask why xml6000 removed all his (or her) Challenge entries from the Challenge gallery, but now I know

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merops
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to merops, 6 months ago

Hahahahaha. I am still enjoying the fact that xml6000's hubris in posting a complaint against capture data rules led him to be discovered as someone cheating on ... capture date rules.

Hahahahaha.

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Jack Cat
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Re: The 'discriminatory-nature' of capture-date stipulations!
In reply to merops, 6 months ago

This is the best laugh I've had in quite some time. Can't wait to see when/where he pops up again.

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