Anyone disappointed with the FE movement?

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
captura
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Re: Anyone disappointed with the FE movement?
In reply to Ramius, 4 months ago

Ramius wrote:

Hardest working forum members lol. You want some kind of reward for being on a forum? Please.

AND YOU, WITH ALL OF 48 POSTS, CONSIDER YOURSELF ONE OF THE HARDEST-WORKING OF THEM ALL?

REALITY CHECK, PLEASE!

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robbinsbox
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Re: 85 and 135
In reply to Absolutic, 4 months ago

+1 for that lineup. Dont care about owning a FF for the wide stuff, just for the portraits really.

just going back to the initial post, i dont expect everyone to agree but i found mft, fuji and samsungs lens roll out far better than sony (the nex lens roll out that is, too early to judge the FE rollout). The more pressure that is put on sony to produce the lens we want, the better. Enough Bodies. More Lens

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José B
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+1 on Zeiss 85/1.8 and/or 135/2 OSS
In reply to Absolutic, 4 months ago

Absolutic wrote:

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form. I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well. I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter. But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera. On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135 (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal. I shoot mostly people.

According to the road map the 85 comes in later this year and the 135 next year. I prefer the latter but the 85 and the A6000 should be great for heads and shoulders shots too.

Cheers,

José

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blue_skies
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Re: lol ....
In reply to Ramius, 4 months ago

Ramius wrote:

Thus far, Sony has only released four lenses for the A7 cameras. And they have the nerve to present the camera at the Photography Show with APS-C mounted lenses: http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/03/06/the-photography-show-2014-tidbits-from-the-show-floor/10

Is this not a clear indication that the selection of FE optics is too limited? When they should have been presenting new FE lenses, they must instead present the camera with the newest in crop lenses instead. To me, this almost admitting that despite the camera being good, there is a lack of support for it.

The A7 still feels new. But it was actually released in november last year. Thats nearly five months ago. And despite the thing selling out like hot cakes, no third party lens manufacturer has announced anything for the FE mount.

Should they not have done so by now? I think its a bit wierd that big brand Sony is announcing such a good, expensive and revolutionary camera, but yet they have no cooperation with brands like Sigma, Tamron or Voigtlander to offer more choices in the FE-line.

This is a professional grade camera, and professionals need options. There has been several photography expos, shows and events they could have used to present FE optics on, but still they have not. How long is it going to take?

Reading through the post, I can't help being amused.

1. You don't own the A7

2. You have no understanding of camera introduction and roll-out, by ALL companies

3. You have no understanding of the word roadmap

4. You respond to responses provocatively

5. You have been on this alias since X-mas, but only activated it recently, with over half of your posts in this thread.

6. Your comments repeatedly are incorrect - see the many responses

7. You don't mind attacking people

8. You are very much like some others, that eventually all went elsewhere

Have your fun here, but don't expect to be taken seriously with this approach...

lol

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

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captura
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Re: 85 and 135
In reply to Absolutic, 4 months ago

Absolutic wrote:

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form. I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well. I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter. But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera. On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135 (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal. I shoot mostly people.

Available for a small fraction of that price are the excellent Canon EF 85 and EF 100mm lenses, for the A7/r, using the RJ speed booster adapter. They also work with APS-C cameras like NEX or probably A6000.

I've been looking for the EF 85, with my limit set for $300.

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Ramius
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Re: lol ....
In reply to blue_skies, 4 months ago

How does it feel to write such a long post where everything is wrong?

I think I obviously struck a nerve here with my thread. Because everyone probably has invested alot of money in their A7s, most people are afraid to admit its weaknesses and will defend the choices they have made. Its socially economically predictable really. Especially with americans.

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captura
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Re: 85 and 135
In reply to robbinsbox, 4 months ago

robbinsbox wrote:

+1 for that lineup. Dont care about owning a FF for the wide stuff, just for the portraits really.

just going back to the initial post, i dont expect everyone to agree but i found mft, fuji and samsungs lens roll out far better than sony (the nex lens roll out that is, too early to judge the FE rollout). The more pressure that is put on sony to produce the lens we want, the better. Enough Bodies. More Lens

mft, fuji and samsungs---- you really can't compare those to FE lenses... It's like trying to compare small oranges to large apples.

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captura
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Re: +1 on Zeiss 85/1.8 and/or 135/2 OSS
In reply to José B, 4 months ago

José B wrote:

Absolutic wrote:

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form. I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well. I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter. But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera. On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135 (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal. I shoot mostly people.

According to the road map the 85 comes in later this year and the 135 next year. I prefer the latter but the 85 and the A6000 should be great for heads and shoulders shots too.

Cheers,

José

Sony has been promising us an 85 for years, now.

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robbinsbox
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Re: 85 and 135
In reply to captura, 4 months ago

comparing small apples with large oranges? Thats bananas

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blue_skies
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Re: lol ....
In reply to Ramius, 4 months ago

Ramius wrote:

How does it feel to write such a long post where everything is wrong?

I think I obviously struck a nerve here with my thread. Because everyone probably has invested alot of money in their A7s, most people are afraid to admit its weaknesses and will defend the choices they have made. Its socially economically predictable really. Especially with americans.

We take you in earnest and gave you appropriate and serious answers. This thread filling up within half a day is indicative of its purpose.

Active forums are fun, but please do stay within topics that you understand...

I have no idea why we should care about your comments, especially in the way that you keep phrasing them.

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Cheers,
Henry

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quezra
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Re: lol ....
In reply to Ramius, 4 months ago

If by "struck a nerve" you mean "posted in a manner characteristic of our regular forum trolls such as ducking any hard questions put to you, while being very selective in what you respond to or what you reveal such that it became clear you had no interest in actually learning or making the most of your toolset" then yeah, you "struck a nerve."

  1. You can't explain your preference for cheap superzooms while claiming to be a "pro"
  2. You can't explain your obsession with cheap lenses when claiming to make money from your gear, where quality is much more desirable
  3. You can't explain how you jumped into a brand new system without the faintest idea what your "professional" needs were against what the system offers
  4. Your expectations sound like this is the first time you've ever seen a system launch, and you don't even know how to read line lengths on a roadmap
  5. You first wanted cheap pancake primes then suddenly you wanted gigantic expensive f2.8 zooms thinking if a third party maker did it they could perform magic and make it cheap, without the faintest clue how economies of scale work for third party manufacturers

In short, it's become clear to everyone your background story is either fantasy or trolling

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Chad Hardy
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Re: Anyone disappointed with the FE movement?
In reply to Ramius, 4 months ago

Ramius wrote:

I was fully aware of their lens roadmap. But like I said before, you think I just want to buy Sonys own lenses for this camera? No.

But Sony said that the 35mm, 55mm and 24-70mm would be available at launch. I planned to buy it with 24-70mm, but was unable to at launch, because at that time it did not exist, and had to settle for the 35mm. Which is also great. So now I have both.

But I do not intend on buying whatevers next from Zeiss/Sony. Its too costly, which is why I miss cheaper FE alternatives. I personally rarely use tele linses in my line of work. So I much rather buy a cheap Tamron tele, if they would offer that.

But I did use my 10-20mm wide angle from Sigma alot, and I miss something similiar for FE. But if Zeiss launched a Touit for FE, I hardly think that would justify the argument that "wide angle is now available". Thats way too expensive, and what Im missing persoanlly, is choices. A whole range of standard zooms. Not just one Zeiss zoom. But competitors interpretations as well. And it annoys me that none of them has even announced anything.

But I´m patient and worked for four months using just the 35mm. I took that as a kind of work challenge, and it was fun, but required me to work in different ways.

When you do something different and mind blowing like FF on a mirrorless camera the tradeoff is a new lens roadmap.  Sony has done a great job trying to bridge that gap by offering adapters that allow use of A mount lenses (more than enough for you to use) and E mount compatibility.  Yes the E mounts might not always be perfect (crop, etc) but they work just fine.  If that wasn't enough, you can throw on a third party adapter and access almost every lens in the world (MF, but we all shot this way before the 80s and yes Adams had some ok photos).

It is obvious you are not the early adopter type, and that is just fine.  Keep shooting with your canon or nikon gear and come back and see us in a few years.  You will have all the lenses you want for your "pro" career.

By then we will have medium format sensors on google glass, and you will be complaining about them as well.

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Seeky
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Please be careful...
In reply to quezra, 4 months ago

To be honest, it seems that the OP could have been answered very easily. Instead, there is an enormous discussion about things most of us already know.

The FF E-mount system won't be complete for years, yet it offers extremely high value for yes, a lot of money. Instead of what some people want to believe, things aren't going fast in the photographic world except for the electronics part. It takes time to build a lens catalog and obtain third party lens support.

However, hysteria seems to be the norm nowadays in photographic land. When a camera manufacturer doesn't deliver on a specific need of a specific group of users, all kinds of apocalyptic stories develop in the collective mind of that specific user group. We then hear things like: "Sony dropped NEX" and: "the end is near, A-mount will soon disappear." Besides being incorrect most of the time, these irrelevant theories lower the joy which can be experienced by participating in a photographic community. This thread is an example of probably all good intentions, but the result isn't pretty. Yes, there is trolling, let's simply ignore that. Yes, there are individuals with serious questions, which can be ill-received, but let's keep the fun into it, educate, listen, evaluate and interact with each other.

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Mel Snyder
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Re: Anyone disappointed with the FE movement?
In reply to Krich13, 4 months ago

Krich13 wrote:

Mel Snyder wrote:

quezra wrote:

How soon would you expect third party makers to climb aboard a new mount? They need to gauge public reception before they start designing lenses. So there will definitely be a time lag before production and Sigma have already said they'd be interested but its not their current priority - and if there's no great demand, they may surmise it's just not worth it. To this day, there are no AF third party lenses for EOS-M, Nikon 1, Fuji X and Samsung NX. Samyang lenses are SLR-registration lenses with extensions for mirrorless and fully manual, and even I don't think they've made adapted lenses for those mounts. They have said they're looking to make AF E-mount lenses though. Sigma only recycled lens designs that it was planning to stick onto its DP cameras anyway, and even then they didn't bother to add onto FujiX, EOS-M or Samsung NX, just stuck with m4/3 and Sony.

As for Sony's own rollout, the 5 original lenses are just about all out (last one coming), and 5 more should be announced this year and 5 more in 2015. So that gives them 8 months to announce the next batch. I don't think I've ever seen a system launch as ambitious as Sony's in fact. Fuji had just 3 primes at launch before it came out with a zoom. Panasonic came out with 2 zooms, NEX with a zoom and a prime, etc.

This guy is just a troll. He wants a 70-200 f4 AF/OSS lens that's cheaper than $1500, with a 24-70 f4 selling for $1200?

Well, it should not sell for $1200 to begin with, not in the world where Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 was introduced at $400. Introduced 6 years ago (and computer-aided lens design and aspheric lens molding technologies progressed a lot since then) a lens full stop faster was selling three times cheaper despite the limitations of long registration distance (don't feed me crap about long reg. distance being an advantage -- I am a professional optical engineer) while being almost as light (500 grams vs 430 g).

Actually, the Tamron 28-75mm XR Di was introduced back in 2005 when I purchased my first one with a D70; I still own it and a second I bought second-hand to use with my pair of D7000s in medical video.

That Tamron has been made in a variety of mounts for more than 10 years now - Canon, Nikon, Sony Alpha, and probably others. Sony FE lenses fit only Sony E mounts - and they were engineered in 2013, with 2013 manufacturing costs. Just inflation would make that Tamron 40% more expensive if designed and manufactured today.

Sony FE lenses are, relatively speaking, almost custom lenses - so few cameras can use them. It knows its market. And all longer than 35mm have OSS

That's one reason why a 55mm OSS Sony lens costs $800 and and a Nikon non-VR 50mm costs under $200.  Nikon assumes anyone who wants a fast 50mm doesn't need VR. Sony sells to amateurs willing to pay $600 more to get OSS in a 55mm prime. That $400 Tamron has no OSS. I can't imagine the majority of those complaining about Sony's roadmap or pricing accepting a 28-75mm at $400 if it didn't have OSS.

Canon and Nikon have a collective installed base of roughly 2 million. Sony probably has projections to build fewer than 200,000 A7/rs over the next 2-3 years. That's not very attractive to Sigma or Tamron. As an optical engineer, you recognize the difficulty of simply putting Nikon/Canon formulated lenses in a Sony PDAF optical system.

Strictly on volume, it will be a long time till Sony could make a $400 non-OSS 24-70mm f4 lens. Canon can't, Nikon can't - and it's not reasonable to expect Sony to be able to do so, given the demand for OSS by forum members.

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Absolutic
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Re: +1 on Zeiss 85/1.8 and/or 135/2 OSS
In reply to José B, 4 months ago

José B wrote:

Absolutic wrote:

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form. I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well. I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter. But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera. On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135 (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal. I shoot mostly people.

According to the road map the 85 comes in later this year and the 135 next year. I prefer the latter but the 85 and the A6000 should be great for heads and shoulders shots too.

Cheers,

José

Jose, the road map you are referring to is fake, and was created by Sonyalpharumors user by the name "Vlad" based on just a wish list of what everyone wants.    Sony's own road map is not even close.

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Absolutic
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Re: 85 and 135
In reply to captura, 4 months ago

captura wrote:

Absolutic wrote:

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form. I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well. I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter. But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera. On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135 (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal. I shoot mostly people.

Available for a small fraction of that price are the excellent Canon EF 85 and EF 100mm lenses, for the A7/r, using the RJ speed booster adapter. They also work with APS-C cameras like NEX or probably A6000.

I've been looking for the EF 85, with my limit set for $300.

Just wanted to correct you, Speed Booster only works for crop cameras like NEX.   For a Full Frame like A7r, to use with Canon, you need a Metabones III or like adapter (I own the King chinese version, which I put for sale today on FM forum by the way).   The AF is very poor to the point of being non-existent (I tried it with 24-105L and it just hunts and hunts and hunts).  On the positive side, you keep the IS and the camera can control everything on the lens, Aperture etc.

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José B
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Re: +1 on Zeiss 85/1.8 and/or 135/2 OSS
In reply to Absolutic, 4 months ago

Absolutic wrote:

José B wrote:

Absolutic wrote:

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form. I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well. I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter. But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera. On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135 (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal. I shoot mostly people.

According to the road map the 85 comes in later this year and the 135 next year. I prefer the latter but the 85 and the A6000 should be great for heads and shoulders shots too.

Cheers,

José

Jose, the road map you are referring to is fake, and was created by Sonyalpharumors user by the name "Vlad" based on just a wish list of what everyone wants. Sony's own road map is not even close.

Dang, I was really hoping for the 135 next year. I don't like using adaptors. The Metabones III for me is pricey (plus the AF will be slow anyways), heck I might as well add ~$ 500 more and I get the Zeiss 55/1.8 FE. I'll just stick with my cheapo EF-NEX adaptor albeit I can only of MF at a fixed aperture. It'll do for now so I can use my 135/2 L.

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jkspepper
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Re: 85 and 135
In reply to Absolutic, 4 months ago

The 2 lenses that I am waiting for are the 85/1.4 Zeiss and 135/1.8 Zeiss renderings in FE form.  I'd be happy with a reduced weight and price 85/1.8 and 135/2 as well.   I probably could even live with even lighter and cheaper 85/2 and 135/2.8.

Of course I can buy these Today plus LA-EA4 adapter.  But it will 1) cost me $3500, 2) defeat the purpose of a small portable camera.   On the other hand I get Phase AF which I am missing on my A7r with these two lenses.

But ideally for me, something like 21, 35, 55, 85 and 135   (21 is least pressing as 35 is wide enough for me) would be ideal.  I shoot mostly people.

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webrunner5
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Re: Please be careful...
In reply to Seeky, 4 months ago

Sony could have 50 FE lenses and how many could afford more than a couple? They are not cheap by any means. But yes it would be nice to have a few more now to chose from. I guess the 70-200 F4 would help.

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djp58
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Re: Anyone disappointed with the FE movement?
In reply to Ramius, 4 months ago

Not disappointed at all - actually quite happy with the progression  I only have the A7R and FE35, but plan on picking up the FE55 and FE70-200 as soon as I can manage - might not need much else native, other than maybe a wide zoom at some point.  In the meantime, I'm having a blast shooting my many legacy lenses.  I think the 5 FE lenses announced and avaliable within 5 months of the camera being available is pretty miraculous. If you are not happy with that, I suggest you get rid of your FE equipment (if you even own any) and go with something more "established" (though doubt you will find something with better IQ or adaptability).

David

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