What if....

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Holger Bargen
Contributing MemberPosts: 795Gear list
Like?
What if....
8 months ago

RICOH would buy SONY?

Am I silly? Don't know. But I just saw that Sony sold ist Computer branch VAIO. So, why not the camera branch?

SONY does a lot of great innovation in the field of the camera market - but they are not successful as they fail to use these innovations for building cameras that are optimal for practical use. If I take a Sony into my hands - these camera feel like toys - don't like that.

PENTAX stands for cameras that are optimized for the users - maybe not the latest technologiy but for work in the field you will find no better camera that is easy to use, that fells good in your hand, that is easy and reliable to use, that is a perfect tool for your job. To me PENTAX is the APPLE (in times of Steve Jobs) of the camera market (hope the customers will notice this in the near future).

So, These companies mixed up would be a perfect team. Sony is in trouble - and (I am not an expert) RICHO seems to be very successful.

Both companies use a technology that was invented by MINOLTA and which seems to be the key-feature for further development of technologies at least for the APS-C sensor.

Best regards

Holger

 Holger Bargen's gear list:Holger Bargen's gear list
Pentax K-5 Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG Macro Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical HSM Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM +2 more
JeffAHayes
Senior MemberPosts: 1,968Gear list
Like?
Re: What if....
In reply to Holger Bargen, 8 months ago

I'm not sure where EITHER company stands financially at the moment, Holger, nor how either company's CAMERA division is. Ricoh appears to be a much larger company than I'd imagined they were, but that said, Sony is THE GIANT of the consumer electronics world, likely bigger than all the others combined except, perhaps, Samsung (which seems to be EATING THEIR LUNCH in some areas).

Still, even if Sony IS bigger that doesn't mean they might not want to shed their camera division as they're shedding Vaio, which I'd thought was a very good part of their business (Vaio laptops have always struck me as some of the best on the market).

But, yaknow, as big as IBM is it sold of its entire consumer computer division to China quite a few years back, which then became Lenovo. So I guess it IS possible.

I've recently noticed, via ads for Hoya filters (recall Hoya owned Pentax until two years ago), that it appears Hoya (or at least its FILTERS) are now a part of KenkoTokina, as THAT website is the one shown at the bottom of their ads in the magazines. So it appears a lot of these companies buy and sell parts of each other.

Would be GREAT for us Pentaxians if Ricoh bought Sony's camera division, I think, as Sony has done some very innovative things with their cameras in recent years.

Jeff

-- hide signature --

A word is worth 1/1000th of a picture... Maybe that's why I use so many words!

 JeffAHayes's gear list:JeffAHayes's gear list
Pentax WG-3 Pentax K-5 Pentax K-30 Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM +8 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Leandros S
Senior MemberPosts: 1,111Gear list
Like?
I don't see the argument
In reply to Holger Bargen, 8 months ago

Holger Bargen wrote:

RICOH would buy SONY?

Am I silly? Don't know. But I just saw that Sony sold ist Computer branch VAIO. So, why not the camera branch?

SONY does a lot of great innovation in the field of the camera market - but they are not successful as they fail to use these innovations for building cameras that are optimal for practical use. If I take a Sony into my hands - these camera feel like toys - don't like that.

PENTAX stands for cameras that are optimized for the users - maybe not the latest technologiy but for work in the field you will find no better camera that is easy to use, that fells good in your hand, that is easy and reliable to use, that is a perfect tool for your job. To me PENTAX is the APPLE (in times of Steve Jobs) of the camera market (hope the customers will notice this in the near future).

So, These companies mixed up would be a perfect team. Sony is in trouble - and (I am not an expert) RICHO seems to be very successful.

Both companies use a technology that was invented by MINOLTA and which seems to be the key-feature for further development of technologies at least for the APS-C sensor.

Best regards

Holger

1) Sony's innovation seems to crucially depend on their collaboration with Zeiss. So Sony in itself may not be an asset, although it may have contractual obligations towards Zeiss and vice versa that may transfer to a new owner. THAT could be iinteresting.

2) I don't follow where you say that Sony cameras feel like toys and then conclude that this would be a good asset for Pentax/Ricoh...

3) Sony only recently entered a new relationship with Olympus over cameras and medical devices. I'm pretty sure they want to find out what comes down the tree from that before seeking a buyer for either one of the divisions that are involved.

Lastly, someone said not long ago that the sensor division is separate from the camera business within Sony. So they could be sold separately. But the industry as a whole depends on keeping larger-sensor performance well ahead of what mobile phone chips can do, so you might see knives coming out if someone were to go after the director's chair in chip manufacturing.

What I would admit is probably true is that Sony has messed up the whole issue of lens mounts and brand names for customers, and spectacularly done both at the same time, leading to complete confusion in the market place for anyone that was familiar with the previous model line-up and how it related to lens options.

I'm also sceptical of how that ties in with their philosophy, offered in a recent interview, of doing something completely new every six months. I kind of feel like giving them an award for NOT killing off the RX1 before its second iteration.

-- hide signature --

No amount of perceived entitlement can replace actual expertise.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
awaldram
Forum ProPosts: 10,801Gear list
Like?
Re: What if....
In reply to JeffAHayes, 8 months ago

Sony is number 6 in electronic companies

as you sate Samsung is No.1

but

HP,

Hon Hai Precision

Apple

and IBM are all bigger based on revenue.

subsequently found this which verifies my statement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_manufacturing_companies_by_revenue

Neither Nikon nor Ricoh are in the fortune 500 so unlikely to be buying any of the above unless a very stupid bank lends them copious amount of capital.

 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-3 Pentax smc DA* 55mm F1.4 SDM Pentax smc DA* 16-50mm F2.8 ED AL (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Leandros S
Senior MemberPosts: 1,111Gear list
Like?
To be fair...
In reply to awaldram, 8 months ago

awaldram wrote:

Sony is number 6 in electronic companies

...

Neither Nikon nor Ricoh are in the fortune 500 so unlikely to be buying any of the above unless a very stupid bank lends them copious amount of capital.

I think he was talking about the camera division, which is not one of the top divisions within Sony by revenue, so the maths would be quite different. That said, my understanding is that the camera division buys the sensors from another division (semiconductors?) within the family.

-- hide signature --

No amount of perceived entitlement can replace actual expertise.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rogerstpierre
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,500Gear list
Like?
Re: What if....
In reply to Holger Bargen, 8 months ago

If they're going to buy someone, may as well be Nikon!

-- hide signature --

Roger

 rogerstpierre's gear list:rogerstpierre's gear list
Pentax smc DA 21mm F3.2 AL Limited Pentax Optio 33WR Samsung TL500 Pentax K10D Pentax K-01 +18 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
LightBug
Senior MemberPosts: 1,306Gear list
Like?
Re: What if....
In reply to Holger Bargen, 8 months ago

Sony seems to be in its last ditch attempt to shore up its camera business.  If anyone takes over Sony's camera business, it could be real difficult to sort out the confusion Sony has created among its customers with the many mounts that it is currently supporting or ignoring.

Joey

 LightBug's gear list:LightBug's gear list
Pentax Q Pentax K-30 Pentax smc DA 15mm F4 ED AL Limited Pentax smc DA* 50-135mm F2.8 ED (IF) SDM Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Holger Bargen
Contributing MemberPosts: 795Gear list
Like?
Re: I don't see the argument
In reply to Leandros S, 8 months ago

Leandros S wrote:

Holger Bargen wrote:

RICOH would buy SONY?

Am I silly? Don't know. But I just saw that Sony sold ist Computer branch VAIO. So, why not the camera branch?

SONY does a lot of great innovation in the field of the camera market - but they are not successful as they fail to use these innovations for building cameras that are optimal for practical use. If I take a Sony into my hands - these camera feel like toys - don't like that.

PENTAX stands for cameras that are optimized for the users - maybe not the latest technologiy but for work in the field you will find no better camera that is easy to use, that fells good in your hand, that is easy and reliable to use, that is a perfect tool for your job. To me PENTAX is the APPLE (in times of Steve Jobs) of the camera market (hope the customers will notice this in the near future).

So, These companies mixed up would be a perfect team. Sony is in trouble - and (I am not an expert) RICHO seems to be very successful.

Both companies use a technology that was invented by MINOLTA and which seems to be the key-feature for further development of technologies at least for the APS-C sensor.

Best regards

Holger

1) Sony's innovation seems to crucially depend on their collaboration with Zeiss. So Sony in itself may not be an asset, although it may have contractual obligations towards Zeiss and vice versa that may transfer to a new owner. THAT could be iinteresting.

When Pentax was bought by Hoya there was a cooperation with Samsung (which seemed to be very promising) and Schneider Kreuznach (still do not know if the lenses designed in K10D days were Schneider-Kreuznach desinges labeled as Pentax or Pentax design labeled as Schneider-Kreuznach (if they were sold by Samsung)). Thus, an acutal cooperation seems not to be a reason to sort things new if the company branch works under a new roof.

2) I don't follow where you say that Sony cameras feel like toys and then conclude that this would be a good asset for Pentax/Ricoh...

To be honest - I did not have the latest models in my hands - so my impression is only about the models from the last few years. You could feel the plastics. Do not know if they would get damaged more easily compared to a Pentax if they fell down - but according to the impression you get from taking the camera into your hands you would expect that the camera is very senistive to harsh conditions and thus no good tool for photography. My K5 fell down from hip heights onto stone ground - and it still works fine. Do not know if a Sony would do the same.

3) Sony only recently entered a new relationship with Olympus over cameras and medical devices. I'm pretty sure they want to find out what comes down the tree from that before seeking a buyer for either one of the divisions that are involved.

Lastly, someone said not long ago that the sensor division is separate from the camera business within Sony. So they could be sold separately. But the industry as a whole depends on keeping larger-sensor performance well ahead of what mobile phone chips can do, so you might see knives coming out if someone were to go after the director's chair in chip manufacturing.

Did not know that - the sensors from Sony are a pearl in the portfolio of the company.

What I would admit is probably true is that Sony has messed up the whole issue of lens mounts and brand names for customers, and spectacularly done both at the same time, leading to complete confusion in the market place for anyone that was familiar with the previous model line-up and how it related to lens options.

In general I am not a fan of cameras that make it hard to use other lens mounts. To me it is something very nice that Sony offers - and maybe it is the only way for a company that has not so much outstanding or specialsized lenses in the own portfolio or that has a lens mount with only limited amount of lenses build so far to open its standard for the us of other lenses.

If the new multi mount for Pentax cameras that was in the press the last days is for really and would really work fine - this technique could be important for a new Pentax FF camera - if the camera would support many mounts the fact that there are not so many actual Pentax FF lenses would be of no meaning anymore.

I'm also sceptical of how that ties in with their philosophy, offered in a recent interview, of doing something completely new every six months. I kind of feel like giving them an award for NOT killing off the RX1 before its second iteration.

This could be a strategy for a company that has not found its direction so far - if this is a strategy goes on for many years it will end up in chaos.

-- hide signature --

No amount of perceived entitlement can replace actual expertise.

 Holger Bargen's gear list:Holger Bargen's gear list
Pentax K-5 Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Sigma 105mm F2.8 EX DG Macro Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical HSM Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 DC Macro OS HSM +2 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads