A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)

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LTZ470
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A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
5 months ago

And from the center to show the resolve of the A7r...phenomenal...

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blue_skies
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

Cole, this seems to be a focusing problem - but do consider:

http://phillipreeve.net/blog/rolling-review-carl-zeiss-vario-tessar-t-fe-424-70-za/ :

Looking from the perspective of a landscape photographer I am rather disappointed:

From about 28mm to 60mm the performance is quite good, most of the image is super sharp from f/4 and the corners are sharp stopped down. The corners aren’t as sharp as those of some of my better primes but they are good enough in my eyes.

The corners at around 24mm are lousy. Period.
I don’t mind if corners aren’t sharp at f/4 as I am shooting at f/8 or f/11 anyway, but they never get sharp.

Performance at 70mm isn’t to great either, at f/4 the images are somewhat soft, sharp enough for web images but not for bigger enlargements.
Central sharpness is good from f/5.6, but even stopped down it won’t be sharp from corner to corner.

and look at the lens charts for both lenses:

FE24-70, showing M10, M20 & M60

Oly 12-40 Pro showing M20 and M60

But the Oly doesn't come out unscathed either: 'good' is a relative 'soso' rating here:

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/olympus-zuiko-digital-ed-12-60mm-f-2-8-4-swd-interchangeable-lens-review-15640

Resolution at 60mm for Oly 12-40

Consider:

Yes, the Nex 18-55 kit lens ... it is slower, but scores almost the same!

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Henry

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captura
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

The A6000 may outperform both in these regards.

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

Cole, this seems to be a focusing problem - but do consider:

http://phillipreeve.net/blog/rolling-review-carl-zeiss-vario-tessar-t-fe-424-70-za/ :

Looking from the perspective of a landscape photographer I am rather disappointed:

From about 28mm to 60mm the performance is quite good, most of the image is super sharp from f/4 and the corners are sharp stopped down. The corners aren’t as sharp as those of some of my better primes but they are good enough in my eyes.

The corners at around 24mm are lousy. Period.
I don’t mind if corners aren’t sharp at f/4 as I am shooting at f/8 or f/11 anyway, but they never get sharp.

Performance at 70mm isn’t to great either, at f/4 the images are somewhat soft, sharp enough for web images but not for bigger enlargements.
Central sharpness is good from f/5.6, but even stopped down it won’t be sharp from corner to corner.

and look at the lens charts for both lenses:

FE24-70, showing M10, M20 & M60

Oly 12-40 Pro showing M20 and M60

But the Oly doesn't come out unscathed either: 'good' is a relative 'soso' rating here:

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/olympus-zuiko-digital-ed-12-60mm-f-2-8-4-swd-interchangeable-lens-review-15640

Resolution at 60mm for Oly 12-40

Consider:

Yes, the Nex 18-55 kit lens ... it is slower, but scores almost the same!

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Cheers,
Henry

Nice try Henry, but this is the 12-40 f/2.8 I am using the graph you have posted is for the 12-60 Oly...yes I also took test shots at 33mm and 32mm on A7r and EM1 respectively, and will post results later...

Nope, not a focusing problem, corner and side blur due to distortion...hard to correct with a lens so small...

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to captura, 5 months ago

captura wrote:

The A6000 may outperform both in these regards.

Correct and I am thinking the A7 would do better as well with the 24Mp Sensor as opposed to the 36Mp A7r sensor?

I think the A7 with 24-70 would be a better match?

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blue_skies
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

captura wrote:

The A6000 may outperform both in these regards.

Correct and I am thinking the A7 would do better as well with the 24Mp Sensor as opposed to the 36Mp A7r sensor?

I think the A7 with 24-70 would be a better match?

Perhaps?

Do click on original - dpreview 'previews' really mangle the image IQ...

A7 with 28-70 kit lens at 70mm

A7 with CG90

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

This will give you an idea just how poor the kit lens is on the sides and corners compared to the 12-40...

Sony 18-55

Oly 12-40

Sony 18-55

12-40 Oly

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blue_skies
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Oly 12-40 Pro showing M20 and M60

Nice try Henry, but this is the 12-40 f/2.8 I am using the graph you have posted is for the 12-60 Oly...

Pretty sure it says 12-40 on top line and 12-60 on bottom line in the charts...

yes I also took test shots at 33mm and 32mm on A7r and EM1 respectively, and will post results later...

How do you process? RAW, JPG? Tried both?

Nope, not a focusing problem, corner and side blur due to distortion...hard to correct with a lens so small...

Could be A7r specific - I am actually impressed with how well the A7 holds up with the 28-70 kit lens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/111458433@N02/sets/72157640199469996/

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bigley Ling
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Cole, this seems to be a focusing problem - but do consider:

http://phillipreeve.net/blog/rolling-review-carl-zeiss-vario-tessar-t-fe-424-70-za/ :

Looking from the perspective of a landscape photographer I am rather disappointed:

From about 28mm to 60mm the performance is quite good, most of the image is super sharp from f/4 and the corners are sharp stopped down. The corners aren’t as sharp as those of some of my better primes but they are good enough in my eyes.

The corners at around 24mm are lousy. Period.
I don’t mind if corners aren’t sharp at f/4 as I am shooting at f/8 or f/11 anyway, but they never get sharp.

Performance at 70mm isn’t to great either, at f/4 the images are somewhat soft, sharp enough for web images but not for bigger enlargements.
Central sharpness is good from f/5.6, but even stopped down it won’t be sharp from corner to corner.

and look at the lens charts for both lenses:

FE24-70, showing M10, M20 & M60

Oly 12-40 Pro showing M20 and M60

But the Oly doesn't come out unscathed either: 'good' is a relative 'soso' rating here:

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/olympus-zuiko-digital-ed-12-60mm-f-2-8-4-swd-interchangeable-lens-review-15640

Resolution at 60mm for Oly 12-40

Consider:

Yes, the Nex 18-55 kit lens ... it is slower, but scores almost the same!

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Cheers,
Henry

Nice try Henry, but this is the 12-40 f/2.8 I am using the graph you have posted is for the 12-60 Oly...yes I also took test shots at 33mm and 32mm on A7r and EM1 respectively, and will post results later...

Nope, not a focusing problem, corner and side blur due to distortion...hard to correct with a lens so small...

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Mr Ichiro Kitao, I support the call to upgrade the FZ50.
I will not only buy one but two no questions asked...

haha good find!! Guess we got to have the correct MTF charts to start with! 12-60mm is not a pro zoom.

I would have thought that the 24-70 lens at f8.0 would have had substantially sharper corners, Wonder how the Canon 24-105 f4.0 performs at f8.0 for corner performance?

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

captura wrote:

The A6000 may outperform both in these regards.

Correct and I am thinking the A7 would do better as well with the 24Mp Sensor as opposed to the 36Mp A7r sensor?

I think the A7 with 24-70 would be a better match?

Perhaps?

Do click on original - dpreview 'previews' really mangle the image IQ...

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Cheers,
Henry

Those look great Henry, I was really looking for the 24mm end of the 24-70 to be good like the 12-40, but just doesn't pan out that way...center is way more than sharp enough though for sure...

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bigley Ling
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Oly 12-40 Pro showing M20 and M60

Nice try Henry, but this is the 12-40 f/2.8 I am using the graph you have posted is for the 12-60 Oly...

Pretty sure it says 12-40 on top line and 12-60 on bottom line in the charts...

yes I also took test shots at 33mm and 32mm on A7r and EM1 respectively, and will post results later...

How do you process? RAW, JPG? Tried both?

Nope, not a focusing problem, corner and side blur due to distortion...hard to correct with a lens so small...

Could be A7r specific - I am actually impressed with how well the A7 holds up with the 28-70 kit lens:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/111458433@N02/sets/72157640199469996/

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Henry

how can it be both 12-40 and yet 12-60 though? These are both very different lens available from Olympus. Maybe a typo somewhere? Whatever it is, the images posted by LTZ470 clearly shows the ultimate resolving power of the A7r when it comes to center performance, and shows the excellent overall resolving power from the 12-40 pro on m43 platform.

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to bigley Ling, 5 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

Oly 12-40 Pro showing M20 and M60

Nice try Henry, but this is the 12-40 f/2.8 I am using the graph you have posted is for the 12-60 Oly...

Pretty sure it says 12-40 on top line and 12-60 on bottom line in the charts...

Yes, but you can see the real difference in the MTF Graphs I posted above...night and day...at f/2.8 the Oly 12-40 makes the 18-55 kit lens look poorest at f/8...

yes I also took test shots at 33mm and 32mm on A7r and EM1 respectively, and will post results later...

How do you process? RAW, JPG? Tried both?

Can't best the Oly jpegs SOOC...jpegs only for me...

Nope, not a focusing problem, corner and side blur due to distortion...hard to correct with a lens so small...

Could be A7r specific - I am actually impressed with how well the A7 holds up with the 28-70 kit lens:

Agreed I am thinking the same sensor issues as the Nex-7 and some lens...are you going to get the 24-70?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/111458433@N02/sets/72157640199469996/

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Henry

how can it be both 12-40 and yet 12-60 though? These are both very different lens available from Olympus. Maybe a typo somewhere? Whatever it is, the images posted by LTZ470 clearly shows the ultimate resolving power of the A7r when it comes to center performance, and shows the excellent overall resolving power from the 12-40 pro on m43 platform.

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blue_skies
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

I think that you pulled up the Nex-5 (14Mp, uncorrected) results. The Nex-7 results are quite a bit more inpressive (but also uncorrected):

http://www.photozone.de/sony_nex/724-sony1855f3556oss?start=1

I guess with corrections it gets even better...

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viking79
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Resize the A7/r to 16 MP to see how it compares...
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

Resize the A7/r to 16 MP or preferably the m4/3 to 24 or 36 MP.

Eric

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Re: Resize the A7/r to 16 MP to see how it compares...
In reply to viking79, 5 months ago

viking79 wrote:

Resize the A7/r to 16 MP or preferably the m4/3 to 24 or 36 MP.

Eric

Actually, looks like your 24-70mm might be faulty, the top half is very soft, not so much on the bottom. Mine was only "bad" in the corners.

Eric

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viking79
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Some crops with Olympus resized to 36 MP
In reply to viking79, 5 months ago

I hope you don't mind me using heavy crops of your photos, I deleted them off computer when done.  My example is much better shown than said...

Here is why I like larger sensor. It only looks bad at the pixel level (besides the top edge, I think your lens is faulty) because the A7R has so many more pixels. If you resize the Olympus to be fair. Simply import into Lightroom and export Olympus and Sony at Long Edge of 7360 (this makes the olympus slightly more than 36 MP since it is 4x3 ratio, but have to pick to convert to 4x6 or 3x4 crop.

The A7R is on the left in all these... Tell me, which do you think is resolving more detail?

Look at board grain in background

Upper right isn't too bad on your 24-70

Look at grass detail

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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

and look at the lens charts for both lenses:

FE24-70, showing M10, M20 & M60

it shows 10, 20 and 40, not 60.... there is a big difference between 40 and 60

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blue_skies
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to LTZ470, 5 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

captura wrote:

The A6000 may outperform both in these regards.

Correct and I am thinking the A7 would do better as well with the 24Mp Sensor as opposed to the 36Mp A7r sensor?

I think the A7 with 24-70 would be a better match?

Perhaps?

Do click on original - dpreview 'previews' really mangle the image IQ...

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Cheers,
Henry

Those look great Henry, I was really looking for the 24mm end of the 24-70 to be good like the 12-40, but just doesn't pan out that way...center is way more than sharp enough though for sure...

I think that the A7 is much easier on lenses - especially RF. I get great results with many legacy and RF lenses. The A7r seems to be pushing things a bit, especially in corners (with RF).

Below is the OM24 on the A7, it may not be perfect, but it is impressive none the less:

I use it with a tilt-adapter, and get pretty interesting results: Note, this image could have had more DOF, but the 'falling back' feeling has been remedied. The sky is purple shifting due to the tilt on a 'standard' lens:

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bigley Ling
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Re: A7r 24-70 at 70mm vs EM1 12-40 at 40mm (80mm EFL)
In reply to blue_skies, 5 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

captura wrote:

The A6000 may outperform both in these regards.

Correct and I am thinking the A7 would do better as well with the 24Mp Sensor as opposed to the 36Mp A7r sensor?

I think the A7 with 24-70 would be a better match?

Perhaps?

Do click on original - dpreview 'previews' really mangle the image IQ...

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

Those look great Henry, I was really looking for the 24mm end of the 24-70 to be good like the 12-40, but just doesn't pan out that way...center is way more than sharp enough though for sure...

I think that the A7 is much easier on lenses - especially RF. I get great results with many legacy and RF lenses. The A7r seems to be pushing things a bit, especially in corners (with RF).

Below is the OM24 on the A7, it may not be perfect, but it is impressive none the less:

I use it with a tilt-adapter, and get pretty interesting results: Note, this image could have had more DOF, but the 'falling back' feeling has been remedied. The sky is purple shifting due to the tilt on a 'standard' lens:

-- hide signature --

Cheers,
Henry

no contest there, the E-M1's tiny m43 sensor cannot really take advantage of these older full frame legacy glass. That being said the E-M1 has such an amazing range of m43 and 43 designed lens, so much so there is no real requirement for m43 cameras to consider legacy glass.

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calxn
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Impressive
In reply to viking79, 5 months ago

You showed the extreme, but to be completely correct, you need to crop the A7R image to 4/3.  This is what the E-M1 + 12-40 is doing after all.  Then you can resize them and do the comparison.  The Olympus combo would look even worst then.

I'm glad I came by this thread, because I ordered this lens prior to coming across this thread.

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