Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
technic
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Re: I would not be too sure about that
In reply to Grobb, 9 months ago

tron555 wrote:

flektogon wrote:

technic wrote:

... I guess Nikon is not going to sell a fixed lens camera that directly competes with their V3 (including a much better lens that is not available for Nikon 1 system).

Exactly! After the V3 announcement I am more and more convinced that there will be no P8000 at all, or if it is then it will be a continuation of the P7xxx series, i.e. using a 1/1.7" sensor.

About 1/3rd of the way down this page shows the latest specs, including the sensor it will get:

http://nikonrumors.com/2014/03/10/what-to-expect-from-nikon-in-the-next-few-months.aspx/

After reading this linkcontained in the link above, what do you think? If it does get that sensor, (which it says it will) it should be quite a camera, IMO

quite a camera, with quite a price?

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technic
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to Grobb, 9 months ago

Keep in mind that prices in Europe are very different, e.g. announced G1X II price is over 2x the price of RX100; this is the same price level that the Coolpix A was introduced, and such a price would not surprise me at all for P8000. As long as Sony does not have a competing lens on their RX fixed lens cameras, they might get away with those high prices because there is no real competition.

Maybe the pricing is more with an eye towards DSLR systems, where the G1X II costs about the same as a Rebel with the somewhat similar 15-85IS zoom (where the DSLR lens is 1-1.5 stops less bright than on G1X II and the combo is 2x the size and weight). Both Nikon and Canon will be careful not to compete with their own DSLRs and mirrorless systems.

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BorisK1
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to technic, 9 months ago

technic wrote:

BorisK1 wrote:

flektogon wrote:

technic wrote:

... I guess Nikon is not going to sell a fixed lens camera that directly competes with their V3 (including a much better lens that is not available for Nikon 1 system).

Exactly! After the V3 announcement I am more and more convinced that there will be no P8000 at all, or if it is then it will be a continuation of the P7xxx series, i.e. using a 1/1.7" sensor.

Interchangable lens cameras don't compete with fixed-lens cameras. You're either "buying a camera" or "building a system". These are two different mindsets, with different price ranges, useful for different scenarios, and attract (mostly) different sets of customers.

In theory you may be right, in practice you are wrong. The lens-to-body ratio for m43 (another in-between sensor size) is just 1.3.

Can you post a link that would expand a bit on this "Lens-to-body ratio"?  Such a number could also mean that people upgrade camera bodies while keeping the lenses.

The majority of the people who buy these ILC's never buy an extra lens.

Could be.  I'd be interested to see a link where this information came from.

And regarding price, did you mean that the fixed lens cameras are more expensive and for a different group of buyers?

A system based on an interchangeable-lens camera is significantly more expensive than a fixed-lens camera with the similar capabilities.

Sure, you can pick up an end-of-lifecycle-firesale body for next-to-nothing, but even a single a fast lens will make things a lot more expensive.

Look at all those older m43 cameras flying of the shelves for $150-250 including kit zoom ... way cheaper than even the aging RX100.

I'm sure manufacturers are aware of the competition from old models and the used market.  But if that was the *only* market, they would've been out of business long ago.

I bet those older / cheaper models outnumber expensive ones like OMD.

Considering how many different Pens and Gs were made, you're probably right.  What's your point?

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boblu
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to Jennyhappy2, 9 months ago

Jennyhappy2 wrote:

So who is debating between the Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X? Seems like the winner may be who gets to the market first, but the P8000 will likely be smaller with a faster lens.

Where is P8000?

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technic
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to BorisK1, 9 months ago

BorisK1 wrote:

In theory you may be right, in practice you are wrong. The lens-to-body ratio for m43 (another in-between sensor size) is just 1.3.

Can you post a link that would expand a bit on this "Lens-to-body ratio"? Such a number could also mean that people upgrade camera bodies while keeping the lenses.

I don't have a link but you can see it in the Japanese camera shipping records that are published on a quarterly basis on several photography websites.

And regarding price, did you mean that the fixed lens cameras are more expensive and for a different group of buyers?

A system based on an interchangeable-lens camera is significantly more expensive than a fixed-lens camera with the similar capabilities.

Sure, you can pick up an end-of-lifecycle-firesale body for next-to-nothing, but even a single a fast lens will make things a lot more expensive.

my point is that many of these cheaper m43 cameras are not purchased as the first part of a system, but simply as a cheap camera with a big sensor. The firesale sales are a big chunk of total sales (you can see that too in the sales/shipping reports).

I bet those older / cheaper models outnumber expensive ones like OMD.

Considering how many different Pens and Gs were made, you're probably right. What's your point?

that your suggestion that fixed lens compacts (with bigger sensor) are for people with small budget, and ILC's for people with much bigger budget is totally wrong, on average.

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papybenenuts
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to boblu, 9 months ago

i think nikon must do the p8000 with 1 inch sensor ... without that .. how can they compete with the best on the market ? : canon G1X M2 / sony RX100 / Olympus OMD 10 ....

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BorisK1
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to technic, 9 months ago

technic wrote:

BorisK1 wrote:

In theory you may be right, in practice you are wrong. The lens-to-body ratio for m43 (another in-between sensor size) is just 1.3.

Can you post a link that would expand a bit on this "Lens-to-body ratio"? Such a number could also mean that people upgrade camera bodies while keeping the lenses.

I don't have a link but you can see it in the Japanese camera shipping records that are published on a quarterly basis on several photography websites.

And regarding price, did you mean that the fixed lens cameras are more expensive and for a different group of buyers?

A system based on an interchangeable-lens camera is significantly more expensive than a fixed-lens camera with the similar capabilities.

Sure, you can pick up an end-of-lifecycle-firesale body for next-to-nothing, but even a single a fast lens will make things a lot more expensive.

my point is that many of these cheaper m43 cameras are not purchased as the first part of a system, but simply as a cheap camera with a big sensor. The firesale sales are a big chunk of total sales (you can see that too in the sales/shipping reports).

I bet those older / cheaper models outnumber expensive ones like OMD.

Considering how many different Pens and Gs were made, you're probably right. What's your point?

that your suggestion that fixed lens compacts (with bigger sensor) are for people with small budget, and ILC's for people with much bigger budget is totally wrong, on average.

A system with multiple bodies and lenses is expensive.

A latest-model large-sensor camera with a bright lens is somewhat less expensive.

A three-year-old body with a kit lens is cheap.

Again, what's your point?

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technic
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to BorisK1, 9 months ago

BorisK1 wrote:

technic wrote:

BorisK1 wrote:

In theory you may be right, in practice you are wrong. The lens-to-body ratio for m43 (another in-between sensor size) is just 1.3.

Can you post a link that would expand a bit on this "Lens-to-body ratio"? Such a number could also mean that people upgrade camera bodies while keeping the lenses.

I don't have a link but you can see it in the Japanese camera shipping records that are published on a quarterly basis on several photography websites.

And regarding price, did you mean that the fixed lens cameras are more expensive and for a different group of buyers?

A system based on an interchangeable-lens camera is significantly more expensive than a fixed-lens camera with the similar capabilities.

Sure, you can pick up an end-of-lifecycle-firesale body for next-to-nothing, but even a single a fast lens will make things a lot more expensive.

my point is that many of these cheaper m43 cameras are not purchased as the first part of a system, but simply as a cheap camera with a big sensor. The firesale sales are a big chunk of total sales (you can see that too in the sales/shipping reports).

I bet those older / cheaper models outnumber expensive ones like OMD.

Considering how many different Pens and Gs were made, you're probably right. What's your point?

that your suggestion that fixed lens compacts (with bigger sensor) are for people with small budget, and ILC's for people with much bigger budget is totally wrong, on average.

A system with multiple bodies and lenses is expensive.

A latest-model large-sensor camera with a bright lens is somewhat less expensive.

A three-year-old body with a kit lens is cheap.

Again, what's your point?

like I explained before: you are totally wrong, on average.

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jonrobertp
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to papybenenuts, 9 months ago

It does make one wonder if the 8000 is still coming. There is at least some overlap with that sensor ....it would be sad if it was only the V. And Canon & Sony's gain.
It would surprise me if Nikon does the 8000 before fall. Still hoping, but....

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BorisK1
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to technic, 9 months ago

technic wrote:

BorisK1 wrote:

technic wrote:

BorisK1 wrote:

In theory you may be right, in practice you are wrong. The lens-to-body ratio for m43 (another in-between sensor size) is just 1.3.

Can you post a link that would expand a bit on this "Lens-to-body ratio"? Such a number could also mean that people upgrade camera bodies while keeping the lenses.

I don't have a link but you can see it in the Japanese camera shipping records that are published on a quarterly basis on several photography websites.

And regarding price, did you mean that the fixed lens cameras are more expensive and for a different group of buyers?

A system based on an interchangeable-lens camera is significantly more expensive than a fixed-lens camera with the similar capabilities.

Sure, you can pick up an end-of-lifecycle-firesale body for next-to-nothing, but even a single a fast lens will make things a lot more expensive.

my point is that many of these cheaper m43 cameras are not purchased as the first part of a system, but simply as a cheap camera with a big sensor. The firesale sales are a big chunk of total sales (you can see that too in the sales/shipping reports).

I bet those older / cheaper models outnumber expensive ones like OMD.

Considering how many different Pens and Gs were made, you're probably right. What's your point?

that your suggestion that fixed lens compacts (with bigger sensor) are for people with small budget, and ILC's for people with much bigger budget is totally wrong, on average.

A system with multiple bodies and lenses is expensive.

A latest-model large-sensor camera with a bright lens is somewhat less expensive.

A three-year-old body with a kit lens is cheap.

Again, what's your point?

like I explained before: you are totally wrong, on average.

You explained nothing of the sort, except where your statistics came from ("I don't have a link" is a common euphomism for "I made it up on the spot").

This "suggestion" - "that fixed lens compacts (with bigger sensor) are for people with small budget, and ILC's for people with much bigger budget" - is yours, not mine.  You're the one who typed it.  Very easy to see, thanks to dpreview coloring scheme.  And I agree, you're totally wrong.

I ask again, what is the point you're trying to make?

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AngryCorgi
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to toomanycanons, 9 months ago

toomanycanons wrote:

G1X has a viewfinder. P8000 doesn't. G1X wins.

As usual, too many canons, too few brain cells.

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Grobb
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to toomanycanons, 9 months ago

toomanycanons wrote:

G1X has a viewfinder. P8000 doesn't. G1X wins.

So far, these are the latest specifications of the P8000 Do you have any other links or proof the P8000 will not come with a VF, that we do not know about? In order to have any credibility on this forum, when you make claims, you need to have some kind of proof.

The original G1X had a tunnel VF with 78% field of view which was basically useless, for all intensive purposes. The new G1X Mark II comes with only an accessory VF for $299. Add that to the $800 price and you are now up to $1,100.

Even if the P8000 does not come with a built-in EVF, it will probably come with an accessory EVF for less $. It will probably have much better IQ due to its newer technology imaging sensor . I think with the existing features that have been rumored so far (if they are correct) will make it a much better bang for the buck fixed lens camera, IMHO. Nothing is for sure at this point in time, and only time will tell, along with reviews and side by side image comparisons

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SHood
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to Grobb, 9 months ago

tron555 wrote:

toomanycanons wrote:

G1X has a viewfinder. P8000 doesn't. G1X wins.

So far, these are the latest reviews of the P8000 Do you have any other links or proof the P8000 will not come with a VF? In order to have any credibility on this forum, when you make claims, you need to have some kind of proof.

The original G1X had a tunnel VF with 78% field of view which was basically useless, for all intensive purposes. The new G1X Mark II comes with only an accessory VF for $299. Add that to the $800 price and you are now up to $1,100.

Even if the P8000 does not come with a built-in EVF, it will probably come with an accessory EVF for less $. It will probably have much better IQ due to its newer technology imaging sensor . I think with the existing features that have been rumored so far (if they are correct) will make it a much better bang for the buck fixed lens camera, IMHO. Nothing is for sure at this point in time, and only time will tell, along with reviews and side by side image comparisons

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If the EVF is optional then it will be the DF-N1000 that was announced with the Nikon V3. In Canada this can be purchased for $329 so that suggests a $299 price for the US.

Edit: I see that B&H is selling the EVF for $328.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1038916-REG/nikon_3779_df_n1000_electronic_viewfinder.html/SUB/photoprice

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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to AngryCorgi, 9 months ago

AngryCorgi wrote:

toomanycanons wrote:

G1X has a viewfinder. P8000 doesn't. G1X wins.

As usual, too many canons, too few brain cells.

Shame on you for that!!

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Jennyhappy2
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to AngryCorgi, 9 months ago

Now thats funny.  

AngryCorgi wrote:

toomanycanons wrote:

G1X has a viewfinder. P8000 doesn't. G1X wins.

As usual, too many canons, too few brain cells.

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Jennyhappy2
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to jonrobertp, 9 months ago

Thought it wasn't suppose to be announced for another couples weeks, well before Canon releases the G1X Mark II.

jonrobertp wrote:

It does make one wonder if the 8000 is still coming. There is at least some overlap with that sensor ....it would be sad if it was only the V. And Canon & Sony's gain.
It would surprise me if Nikon does the 8000 before fall. Still hoping, but....

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RelayerM31
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Re: Nikon P8000 vs Canon G1X
In reply to Jennyhappy2, 8 months ago

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the possibility of a mic input for the Nikon P8000. We know the PowerShot G1X mark II doesn't have one and the P7800 does have one. A mic input jack would tilt me toward the P8000 even though the sensor is a wee bit smaller. Having the MUCH higher quality audio that an external mic allows is a real plus for video. I'm after that one special camera for the next few years. I'll also be watching with interest for the PowerShot G17. Time will tell.

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Raist3d
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Re: After reading Canon talk, P8000
In reply to CAcreeks, 8 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

I don't care if the G1X Mark (or mk) II (or 2) is better.

After a week of reading the Canon Powershot forum, I am ready to go bonkers. They have a real talent for taking an unimportant issue and driving it into the ground.

I humbly suggest you choose a camera based on something else than people in a dpreview forum that own it

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panamforeman
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Re: After reading Canon talk, P8000
In reply to Raist3d, 8 months ago

Raist3d wrote:

CAcreeks wrote:

I don't care if the G1X Mark (or mk) II (or 2) is better.

After a week of reading the Canon Powershot forum, I am ready to go bonkers. They have a real talent for taking an unimportant issue and driving it into the ground.

I humbly suggest you choose a camera based on something else than people in a dpreview forum that own it

I'm not sure I agree with your premise.  Assuming that you mean I shouldn't base my decision to buy "said camera" on a person's advice who already owns the camera? On the contrary I would base my decision on "professional reviews" such as dpreview's, etal, as well as individual owners who have used the camera and can report on its strong points as well as its weaknesses.

To be sure there are those owners who buy a camera and expect it to be the answer to their photo dreams, but who are totally befuddled by how to use it properly with all the features it has. But they are easy enough to pick out. It's just that they are so vocal with their disappointments. "Disappointment" being their by-word.

I generally stay on the Canon Forum because those are the cameras I have the most of. But I am interested in the Nikon P8000 and its expected announcement. (although I'm beginning to suspect it won't be anytime soon)

As for CAcreeks going "bonkers" on the Canon Forum? I certainly sympathize! It seems to draw the most "fanboys", "trolls", and "nay-sayers" of any of the Forums here on dpreview. Before a newly announced camera even gets into the first owner's hands it is denounced as a failure. I would say, on the Canon Forum at least, I've never encountered so many unhappy people. I haven't found that to be the case on the Nikon Forum to the extent it is on the Canon Forum. I guess that's so because the "big dog" always gets the most attention.

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jonrobertp
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P8000 and 7D2 are both mythical
In reply to RelayerM31, 8 months ago

and may or may not be here by Christmas.   Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the lone ranger and Tonto had fun with the real G1X2.

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