The best IQ you can get.

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Telhma
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The best IQ you can get.
9 months ago

Okej, I have a 1DX and a 135mm Lens, and i want to get the best possible imague quality out of this thing. I tryed allready some kind of things, but i can not test it under the same conditions. so that's why i ask my question.

My 135mm is a very sharp lens, but it still is much sharper at f4/f5.6 then at f2. If i take pictures at S:1/250 A:f4 ISO:100 they look sharper then when i take them at S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100. But i am shooting mostly sports, so shuttertime is not realy a thing i want to give up. what means i need to get in to the higher ISO. and yes, shooting a picture att S:1/1000 A:f4 ISO:400 still looks sharper then shooting a picture att S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100.

But when i am in a situation where i need ISO800 with a A:f2 to get a shutter speed of 1/1000. it starts to look different, and i need to say i am not sure annymore if my images are sharper if i shoot ISO3200, A:f4, S:1/1000.

If i reach S:1/1000 A:f4 ISO:12800 compaired to S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:3200. I need to say the images at f2 realy look much better then at f4.

So, my question is: is there somebody who know att what ISO you better go for a little les lens sharpness (leave subject isolation out of it).

Thanks in advance.

Canon EOS-1D
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Rick Knepper
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That's the nature of the beast.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

This is my opinion only ok?

The 135 is an older model. It has only been in recent years that Canon (and maybe other manufacturers as well) have begun optimizing their lenses for wide open performance. The 24-70 II is a prime example. It's best aperture is f2.8 and doesn't need much stopping down to shore up the corners. I've always thought the 85L II was decent wide open too.

You are not seeing things, the 135 gets sharper stopped down based on my memory of the lens when I owned it.

I can't speak to your experiments with ISO and SS but I would say f2 isn't as sharp as f4 at any setting however I think f2 can be usable.

Telhma wrote:

Okej, I have a 1DX and a 135mm Lens, and i want to get the best possible imague quality out of this thing. I tryed allready some kind of things, but i can not test it under the same conditions. so that's why i ask my question.

My 135mm is a very sharp lens, but it still is much sharper at f4/f5.6 then at f2. If i take pictures at S:1/250 A:f4 ISO:100 they look sharper then when i take them at S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100. But i am shooting mostly sports, so shuttertime is not realy a thing i want to give up. what means i need to get in to the higher ISO. and yes, shooting a picture att S:1/1000 A:f4 ISO:400 still looks sharper then shooting a picture att S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100.

But when i am in a situation where i need ISO800 with a A:f2 to get a shutter speed of 1/1000. it starts to look different, and i need to say i am not sure annymore if my images are sharper if i shoot ISO3200, A:f4, S:1/1000.

If i reach S:1/1000 A:f4 ISO:12800 compaired to S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:3200. I need to say the images at f2 realy look much better then at f4.

So, my question is: is there somebody who know att what ISO you better go for a little les lens sharpness (leave subject isolation out of it).

Thanks in advance.

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Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Various RAW comparisons at Link. Includes 5D3 vs D800E, 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie

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l_d_allan
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

My 135mm is a very sharp lens, but it still is much sharper at f4/f5.6 then at f2. If i take pictures at S:1/250 A:f4 ISO:100 they look sharper then when i take them at S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100.

Some of this may be focus error. You've got more DOF at f4 than f2.

Several photo related web-sites have useful widgets to compare lenses, and the same lens at different apertures. Dpreview, http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=769

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: That's the nature of the beast.
In reply to Rick Knepper, 9 months ago

Rick Knepper wrote:

This is my opinion only ok?

The 135 is an older model. It has only been in recent years that Canon (and maybe other manufacturers as well) have begun optimizing their lenses for wide open performance. The 24-70 II is a prime example. It's best aperture is f2.8 and doesn't need much stopping down to shore up the corners. I've always thought the 85L II was decent wide open too.

The 135L is sharp enough wide open for all practical purposes other than shooting landscapes and printing them huge. Certainly much sharper than the 85LII wide open. The challenge is focusing it right, and the DOF.

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Telhma
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to l_d_allan, 9 months ago

Hej

It is deafenty not the focus, i am sure about that, i know when i hit it, and when not. and not to act like a diva, i miss it a lot
but i just want to be able to use my images also att 100%. that's why i want them as sharp as possible.
It need to back up untill i find the money for the 200 f2.0 or the 300 f2.8

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technic
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Re: That's the nature of the beast.
In reply to Just another Canon shooter, 9 months ago

Just another Canon shooter wrote:

Rick Knepper wrote:

This is my opinion only ok?

The 135 is an older model. It has only been in recent years that Canon (and maybe other manufacturers as well) have begun optimizing their lenses for wide open performance. The 24-70 II is a prime example. It's best aperture is f2.8 and doesn't need much stopping down to shore up the corners. I've always thought the 85L II was decent wide open too.

The 135L is sharp enough wide open for all practical purposes other than shooting landscapes and printing them huge. Certainly much sharper than the 85LII wide open. The challenge is focusing it right, and the DOF.

Agree, I don't have the 2/135L but I have the 2.8/200L which has a similar optical design. It is almost perfectly sharp wide open, but only if I use Liveview for focusing and if the whole scene falls within the DOF (e.g. landscape scene near infinity, some architectural subjects). Going from f/2.8 to f/3.5 will increase the micro-contrast a bit but that's about it.

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Zee Char
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Okej, I have a 1DX and a 135mm Lens, and i want to get the best possible imague quality out of this thing. I tryed allready some kind of things, but i can not test it under the same conditions. so that's why i ask my question.

My 135mm is a very sharp lens, but it still is much sharper at f4/f5.6 then at f2. If i take pictures at S:1/250 A:f4 ISO:100 they look sharper then when i take them at S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100. But i am shooting mostly sports, so shuttertime is not realy a thing i want to give up. what means i need to get in to the higher ISO. and yes, shooting a picture att S:1/1000 A:f4 ISO:400 still looks sharper then shooting a picture att S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:100.

But when i am in a situation where i need ISO800 with a A:f2 to get a shutter speed of 1/1000. it starts to look different, and i need to say i am not sure annymore if my images are sharper if i shoot ISO3200, A:f4, S:1/1000.

If i reach S:1/1000 A:f4 ISO:12800 compaired to S:1/1000 A:f2 ISO:3200. I need to say the images at f2 realy look much better then at f4.

So, my question is: is there somebody who know att what ISO you better go for a little les lens sharpness (leave subject isolation out of it).

Thanks in advance.

This is my 7D at 12,800. I can't imagine the IDX not going well with higher ISO's.

As you increase ISO image sharpness will degrade to some degree on any camera. We have it so good today. When I shot film and needed a real grainy look I just through some 400 ISO film in.

The higher you shoot the more you need to pay attention to PP techniques. What developer are you using?  Are you using the 3 phases of sharpening?

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/image-sharpening.htm

Do you have photoshop? When you open a RAW image the masking slider is a very important tool. It only sharpens edges for the capture sharpening phase. If you move the slider and press the Options (Alt for PC) key you can see the results. I'm usually at about 80. LR is the same.

Careful noise reduction while viewing at 100% is important as luminosity effects sharpening directly and Adobe does a good job.

LR is a good product I use often but I don't have the control I want for final sharpening when I work on my hobby shots. I use the following method for output sharpening. Again an edge sharpening method that you over sharpen because at the end you can feather back. No two images sharpen up the same way. One of the best I have found to date and it is free.

http://www.earthboundlight.com/phototips/smart-sharpen-cs2-and-more.html

Resizing is important as well. I find Adobe's algorithms have really improved over the years. I created an action that incorporates the RSS method above and the two videos below. The action resizes and sharpens.

The video does get into reducing image size.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmLDw124uUA&feature=player_embedded#at=20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44mV3NsLmXw&feature=relmfu

If you want any more info let me know.

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szak1352
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Dear Telhma,
You've got a dream lens&camera combination. As you can see from the chart (source: photozone.de, tested on EOS 5DMkII), the image center sharpness rocks from f/2 onwards. Except for really crytical studio images, I don't think that the difference between 3308 lines (f/2) and 3488 lines (f/5,6) is important. The sharpness of the image corner improves till f/5,6, but shooting people, we usually go for creamy bokeh at f/2, which makes the corner sharpness less imprtant.
So my point is: shoot with the 135 at any aperture between f/2-f/8 (depending the DOF you wish to create) and keep your ISO as low as possible for optimal shutter speed. Any motion blur (unless you do it intentionally) will spoil your image much more than a stop or two opened aperture.

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Be modest and polite. Shoot 135@2.

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Telhma
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to szak1352, 9 months ago

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

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johnierebel
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

At the risk of seeming insulting, did you check the micro adjustment for the AF, sharp at F4 & not at F2 could explain the difference in focusing?

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Just another Canon shooter
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

No problem. This was shot at f/2 with the 5D2. Click to open at 100%.

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Zee Char
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

It can be done.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53207472

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Zee Char
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to szak1352, 9 months ago

szak1352 wrote:

Dear Telhma,
You've got a dream lens&camera combination. As you can see from the chart (source: photozone.de, tested on EOS 5DMkII), the image center sharpness rocks from f/2 onwards. Except for really crytical studio images, I don't think that the difference between 3308 lines (f/2) and 3488 lines (f/5,6) is important. The sharpness of the image corner improves till f/5,6, but shooting people, we usually go for creamy bokeh at f/2, which makes the corner sharpness less imprtant.
So my point is: shoot with the 135 at any aperture between f/2-f/8 (depending the DOF you wish to create) and keep your ISO as low as possible for optimal shutter speed. Any motion blur (unless you do it intentionally) will spoil your image much more than a stop or two opened aperture.

-- hide signature --

Be modest and polite. Shoot 135@2.

Good call. I missed the part about aperture. Most lenses sharpen up 1 to 2 stops closed from wide open and 3 sometimes.

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mablacksv
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Hej

It is deafenty not the focus, i am sure about that, i know when i hit it, and when not. and not to act like a diva, i miss it a lot
but i just want to be able to use my images also att 100%. that's why i want them as sharp as possible.
It need to back up untill i find the money for the 200 f2.0 or the 300 f2.8

Yes if you want Razor Sharp, you'll be happy with the 200 f2 or 300/2.8

Here is an crop of an image I took with my 200 f/1.8 wide open with both a 1.4x II AND a 2.0x II extender attached with a 1D Mark III as ISO 800 back in 2009:

A couple more examples are at: 200 1.8 + 1.4x + 2.0x examples

John

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szak1352
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Zee Char, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

It can be done.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53207472

Yes, indeed. This can easily be a 135 f/2-2,8 shot from greater distance + heavy crop. Or an f/4-5,6 close up shot with very light crop...
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Be modest and polite. Shoot 135@2.

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clarkent1234
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to johnierebel, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

At the risk of seeming insulting, did you check the micro adjustment for the AF, sharp at F4 & not at F2 could explain the difference in focusing?

Damn, nice photo.

Another thing to consider. Are u being too critical? lol

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gipper51
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to Telhma, 9 months ago

Telhma wrote:

Thanks for all the comments. I realy appriciate it. but i am always worried about my sharpness, because i love to crop in a lot in post production. I want to be able to to things like this.

For crops that tight, get a longer lens

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Telhma
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Re: The best IQ you can get.
In reply to gipper51, 9 months ago

I am saving money for the 200mm F2.0 (or maybe the 300mm 2.8, but i think that one does not work that well for various collection pictures )

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