FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today! Locked

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
This thread is locked.
LeicaBOSS
Regular MemberPosts: 430Gear list
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to ZzzooM3, 6 months ago

This simply means - and pardon for being direct - that your expectations were really out of line.

A zoom lens with IS - priced hundreds below Canon's 24-70mm, in a smaller form factor would never be, should not be expected to be , and is not a bag of prime lenses.

So, when you get a lens, run outside, cram a tree 100 yards away into the corner of the frame at 24mm f/5.6, import into LR5, and peep at 100% / 36MP, and see less than tack sharp resolution and immediately drop the lens into the FedEx box... blame yourself. Not the lens.

If, perhaps, you look at the images for what they are worth - and the lens for what it's designed to be... you realize it's accomplished an impressive amount of good. And it is still just a zoom lens. A quite firmly above average "slowish" zoom with well-mannered OOF highlights, excellent contrast, richly saturated color, awesome OSS, impressive detail resolving power across most of the focal range, and compromises at the extremes. EXACTLY what it should be.

Lousy photo. From a middling zoom lens that is better than the other middling zoom lenses like it - but not as good at the world's best primes. Update at 11.

EDIT: I just had to add one bit in response to PaulR

Your concept of good vs. no-good reflects a perverse view and deep misunderstanding of lens performance. Meanwhile, if challenged to produce meaningful examples of compact zooms covering a full 35mm frame with corner to corner sharpness at open apertures in a similar price range - the response would be nothing but silence.

-- hide signature --

From time to time, I point my camera at the right things. This is generally when I forget everything I've learned.

 LeicaBOSS's gear list:LeicaBOSS's gear list
Leica M9 Sony SLT-A77 Canon EOS M Sony Alpha 7R Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II +17 more
Dennishh
Contributing MemberPosts: 503Gear list
Re: EXPECTED AT LEAST A SHORT REVIEW
In reply to PaulR, 6 months ago

PaulR wrote:

Dennishh wrote:

Here's something to help soothe your tortured soul! Sometimes it doesn't pay to jump to conclusions.

Shot with the Zeiss 24-70 F4 ZA A7r

How does posting a shot taken at F11 contribute anything to the debate over how good the lens is? A) if you have to stop down to F11 to get good quality the lens is no good. B) Diffraction effects clearly start showing up at F11 on an A7R so just how bad does the lens have to be for an F11 shot to be sharper than an F8 or F5.6 shot?

Obviously you've never worked in the studio where F11 and below is standard. So here's another couple of shots that are at f5.6 with this really great lens! Could you tell me where you see diffraction in the F11 image please?

The horse picture was taken at F5.6 at 24mm. I had the face recognition set to on, which now I leave that way all the time. It picked up the horses eye perfectly. The OSS on this lens is nothing short of spectacular.

 Dennishh's gear list:Dennishh's gear list
Nikon D800E Sony Alpha 7R Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF Nikkor 24mm f/2.8D +3 more
Chad Hardy
Senior MemberPosts: 1,155Gear list
Re: Well...
In reply to David Lozoya, 6 months ago

David Lozoya wrote:

The ONLY zoom lens that I have used/owned that was sharp to the corners at all apertures with minimal distortion was the fantastic Olympus 12-40 f2.8. You have to see it to believe it. No other zoom comes close.

-- hide signature --

www.davidlozoya.com

Sounds like you should spend your money on an adapter then.  I have seen pictures of the 2470 FE that rival the 55 FE at f4.  You have to see it to believe it.

 Chad Hardy's gear list:Chad Hardy's gear list
Olympus E-M1 Sony Alpha 7R Fujifilm X-T1 RX100 III Fujifilm X-E2 +16 more
LeicaBOSS
Regular MemberPosts: 430Gear list
Re: Well...
In reply to Chad Hardy, 6 months ago

To be fair - the FE 24-70 covers an image area nearly 4x larger than the Oly lens has to. The "corners" of the m4/3 sensor are right in the middle of the frame for the Zeiss lens....

Why waste all that glass for m4/3, when you only need like 25% of a lens to make it work on that system?

-- hide signature --

From time to time, I point my camera at the right things. This is generally when I forget everything I've learned.

 LeicaBOSS's gear list:LeicaBOSS's gear list
Leica M9 Sony SLT-A77 Canon EOS M Sony Alpha 7R Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II +17 more
panpen
Contributing MemberPosts: 795
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to ZzzooM3, 6 months ago

"and it's not fast enough."

Funny you didn't know it before you ordered the lens.

bigley Ling
Senior MemberPosts: 1,144Gear list
Re: Well...
In reply to Chad Hardy, 6 months ago

Chad Hardy wrote:

David Lozoya wrote:

The ONLY zoom lens that I have used/owned that was sharp to the corners at all apertures with minimal distortion was the fantastic Olympus 12-40 f2.8. You have to see it to believe it. No other zoom comes close.

-- hide signature --

www.davidlozoya.com

Sounds like you should spend your money on an adapter then. I have seen pictures of the 2470 FE that rival the 55 FE at f4. You have to see it to believe it.

hmmm even if it were possible to adapt the 12-40mm onto the A7(r) the 12-40 is designed for a smaller frame and would suffer from extensive vignetting around the whole frame.

CameraGuru
Forum MemberPosts: 69
Re: Well...
In reply to bigley Ling, 6 months ago

Perhaps that was a bit harsh, but I think we were expecting the 24-70 to be a stellar performer. A giant among's lenses to take the podium next to Demigods such as the Canon 14-24, Leica Wate and the Zeiss 21mm and other godly lenses... in that respect the 24-70 failed. The Sony / Zeiss collaboration brought us some amazing primes, in some aspect we were expecting the same "tour de force" from the 24-70mm.

That said, from what I hear it is far from being a bad lens.

PaulR
Regular MemberPosts: 316Gear list
Re: EXPECTED AT LEAST A SHORT REVIEW
In reply to Dennishh, 6 months ago

Dennishh wrote:

PaulR wrote:

Dennishh wrote:

Here's something to help soothe your tortured soul! Sometimes it doesn't pay to jump to conclusions.

Shot with the Zeiss 24-70 F4 ZA A7r

How does posting a shot taken at F11 contribute anything to the debate over how good the lens is? A) if you have to stop down to F11 to get good quality the lens is no good. B) Diffraction effects clearly start showing up at F11 on an A7R so just how bad does the lens have to be for an F11 shot to be sharper than an F8 or F5.6 shot?

Obviously you've never worked in the studio where F11 and below is standard. So here's another couple of shots that are at f5.6 with this really great lens! Could you tell me where you see diffraction in the F11 image please?

The horse picture was taken at F5.6 at 24mm. I had the face recognition set to on, which now I leave that way all the time. It picked up the horses eye perfectly. The OSS on this lens is nothing short of spectacular.

I'm not sure what you expect anybody to be able to tell about the quality of the lens when you are posting images that are 1400x934 pixels.  Seriously, those aren't even 1.5 megapixel files.  They might be the sharpest images in the world and all an independent observer would really be able to tell is that you have pretty colors.  And what shooting in the studio at F11 or below has to do with whether or not a lens is truly sharp is beyond me.  But I'm glad you are happy with your copy of the lens.  My 24-70 is still in transit.  It would be really terrific if it turns out to be a keeper.  But if it is as bad as some of the more careful testers have suggested, well that is what a 30 day return policy is for.

 PaulR's gear list:PaulR's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-7 Nikon D600 Sony Alpha 7R Sigma 30mm F2.8 EX DN Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN +1 more
dbm305
Contributing MemberPosts: 761Gear list
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to LeicaBOSS, 6 months ago

LeicaBOSS wrote:

This simply means - and pardon for being direct - that your expectations were really out of line.

A zoom lens with IS - priced hundreds below Canon's 24-70mm, in a smaller form factor would never be, should not be expected to be , and is not a bag of prime lenses.

So, when you get a lens, run outside, cram a tree 100 yards away into the corner of the frame at 24mm f/5.6, import into LR5, and peep at 100% / 36MP, and see less than tack sharp resolution and immediately drop the lens into the FedEx box... blame yourself. Not the lens.

+1

 dbm305's gear list:dbm305's gear list
Sony RX100 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Sony Alpha 7R Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM Canon TS-E 17mm f/4L +12 more
stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 3,592Gear list
Not that expensive...
In reply to Stu 5, 6 months ago

Stu 5 wrote:

Why on earth were you shooting at those ISO's when you did not need to? The quality loss due to that is noticeable.

As for the sharpness you do not need to view at 100% to see the issue. It is noticeable and means for some types of photography where the corners are important the lens is unusable as a lot of clients would reject the work or just not bother to use you in the future. If this lens had Sony written on the front and cheaper then it would be acceptable but not at this price or with Zeiss as a brand name on it.

Geez, come on. Have you compared prices? This sits in that mid range price-wise with the Canon 24-70 and it performs better.

So no, this ISN'T priced like a premium zoom. And if you start looking around, you'll wonder why the Canon 24-70 2.8 is going for another $1000. Yes, it's great, but you pay a lot for that and the performance is just acceptable in the corners.

Also, I've actually seen some great results in the corners for this lens, I'm thinking most people don't know A) How to shoot for sharp corners or B) have never owned a zoom. Otherwise, they would realize what to expect.

darkdirtydwarf
Contributing MemberPosts: 704Gear list
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to viking79, 6 months ago

viking79 wrote:

I really love the size, weight, build quality of the 24-70mm. I do wish it was better in the corners for the price. To me it feels a bit like a kit lens, but for the A7R.

Do you know by any chance how it compares to the SEL18200 on a NEX5N?

I'm wondering whether to buy the FE zoom or keep the combo mentioned above, and when I look at the images I take with it, I'm kinda NOT willing to shell over 1000 euro for another zoom and rather invest it on a FE prime.

Here an example (with minor LR adjustments) of this imho sharp lens with an EXCELLENT OSS (check the shutter time for this handheld image at 200mm, crazy ):

SEL18200 on NEX5N at 200mm F6.3 ISO 400 1/40s

Unfortunately from this sample nothing can be told about corner sharpness, gotta check it out, for me it's a non issue since I use the zoom only for non critical work.

I must say that the SEL18200 on the NEX5N is VERY uncomfortable to use and I much prefer to use the A7 with the Minolta AF 28-135 (but the MFD is horrible for indoor use). Still, it's a lens I use a lot.

 darkdirtydwarf's gear list:darkdirtydwarf's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony SLT-A55 Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony Alpha 7 Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake +7 more
Stu 5
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,265
Re: Not that expensive...
In reply to stevo23, 6 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Stu 5 wrote:

Why on earth were you shooting at those ISO's when you did not need to? The quality loss due to that is noticeable.

As for the sharpness you do not need to view at 100% to see the issue. It is noticeable and means for some types of photography where the corners are important the lens is unusable as a lot of clients would reject the work or just not bother to use you in the future. If this lens had Sony written on the front and cheaper then it would be acceptable but not at this price or with Zeiss as a brand name on it.

Geez, come on. Have you compared prices? This sits in that mid range price-wise with the Canon 24-70 and it performs better.

So no, this ISN'T priced like a premium zoom. And if you start looking around, you'll wonder why the Canon 24-70 2.8 is going for another $1000. Yes, it's great, but you pay a lot for that and the performance is just acceptable in the corners.

Also, I've actually seen some great results in the corners for this lens, I'm thinking most people don't know A) How to shoot for sharp corners or B) have never owned a zoom. Otherwise, they would realize what to expect.

Well I have shot with zoom lenses from a lot of camera brands professionally and retouched files from various others brands professionally and there is no question this lens is overpriced. I have seen worse but they were cheaper lenses. This lens has a lot of issues for the money and really should not be being marketed under the Zeiss brand. The centre is good and the coating is good and at some focal lengths the overall performance is good but else where it is poor value for the money. Not even talking about 100% viewing as the problems are noticeable much smaller than that. As yet Sony have not managed to show they can design a decent zoom lens for the A7's. Wait and see if the tele zoom performs when it comes out or if it takes another brand to come out with a decent zoom.

LeicaBOSS
Regular MemberPosts: 430Gear list
Re: Not that expensive...
In reply to Stu 5, 6 months ago

That's a whole lot of words, without the burden of specifics. I'd love to know about all of these cheaper, better performing zoom lenses.

Meanwhile, we're talking about corner softness at 24mm to not even 28mm, reduced contrast at 65-70mm and a pretty significant distortion profile. That's all you have that makes this such a terrible, unacceptable lens.

Another photo from a crappy, unacceptable-to-armchair-pixel-peepers lens.

-- hide signature --

From time to time, I point my camera at the right things. This is generally when I forget everything I've learned.

 LeicaBOSS's gear list:LeicaBOSS's gear list
Leica M9 Sony SLT-A77 Canon EOS M Sony Alpha 7R Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II +17 more
Keit ll
Senior MemberPosts: 2,813Gear list
Re: Not that expensive...
In reply to LeicaBOSS, 6 months ago

That photo caption is right on the mark ......

sgoldswo
Senior MemberPosts: 3,551Gear list
Re: Overreaction?
In reply to Stu 5, 6 months ago

Stu 5 wrote:

Why on earth were you shooting at those ISO's when you did not need to? The quality loss due to that is noticeable.

because it was incredibly dark for most of Friday lunchtime and I believe auto-iso to be the work of the devil? 

Not every shot that uses non optimal settings needs to be discarded...

As for the sharpness you do not need to view at 100% to see the issue. It is noticeable and means for some types of photography where the corners are important the lens is unusable as a lot of clients would reject the work or just not bother to use you in the future. If this lens had Sony written on the front and cheaper then it would be acceptable but not at this price or with Zeiss as a brand name on it.

Would you like me to dig out some shots with my nikon 24-70 that demonstrate it has softer corners at certain focal lengths and apertures?

 sgoldswo's gear list:sgoldswo's gear list
Leica M Typ 240 Olympus E-M1 Nikon Df Nikon D810
bigley Ling
Senior MemberPosts: 1,144Gear list
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to darkdirtydwarf, 6 months ago

darkdirtydwarf wrote:

viking79 wrote:

I really love the size, weight, build quality of the 24-70mm. I do wish it was better in the corners for the price. To me it feels a bit like a kit lens, but for the A7R.

Do you know by any chance how it compares to the SEL18200 on a NEX5N?

I'm wondering whether to buy the FE zoom or keep the combo mentioned above, and when I look at the images I take with it, I'm kinda NOT willing to shell over 1000 euro for another zoom and rather invest it on a FE prime.

Here an example (with minor LR adjustments) of this imho sharp lens with an EXCELLENT OSS (check the shutter time for this handheld image at 200mm, crazy ):

SEL18200 on NEX5N at 200mm F6.3 ISO 400 1/40s

Unfortunately from this sample nothing can be told about corner sharpness, gotta check it out, for me it's a non issue since I use the zoom only for non critical work.

I must say that the SEL18200 on the NEX5N is VERY uncomfortable to use and I much prefer to use the A7 with the Minolta AF 28-135 (but the MFD is horrible for indoor use). Still, it's a lens I use a lot.

Wow, that is a nice shot from the 18-200. I get excellent results from my 18-200 original silver edition at 200mm as well. Just wish it could have been a little faster like a 5.6 at the max tele end.

To improve the ergonomics when using the 18-200mm lens on the Nex 5 series camera, I attached a 3rd party vertical grip made by "own user". It seems pretty solid, and have found it helps alot when mounting full frame legacy glass, as well as the largish 18-200 lens.

darkdirtydwarf
Contributing MemberPosts: 704Gear list
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to bigley Ling, 6 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

Wow, that is a nice shot from the 18-200.

Thanks!

I get excellent results from my 18-200 original silver edition at 200mm as well.

Yes, that's the same I have! I think I must have a good copy, cause I'm really happy with it at all focal lengths and haven't had any issue so far. Pity the A7 can only take 10MPs images in crop mode, cause on the A7 the handling is really good with this lens.

To improve the ergonomics when using the 18-200mm lens on the Nex 5 series camera, I attached a 3rd party vertical grip made by "own user". It seems pretty solid, and have found it helps alot when mounting full frame legacy glass, as well as the largish 18-200 lens.

Awesome! I didn't know about it! Thanks a lot!

I just found it for a ridiculous cheap price (the grey version, looks nasty, but it's half the price of the black one...). I'm gonna order one

 darkdirtydwarf's gear list:darkdirtydwarf's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony SLT-A55 Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony Alpha 7 Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake +7 more
nostatic
Regular MemberPosts: 185
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to darkdirtydwarf, 6 months ago

Shot stills and video with the 24-70 FE the other night. Backup was the RX1r. Were the stills from the 24-70 as good as the ones from the RX1r? In the ballpark - only lacking if you were pixel peeping. The star was the OSS on the 24-70. Handheld video in low light looked fine. Can't say the same with the 55/1.8. Stills from the 55/1.8 are stellar. Horses for courses.

bigley Ling
Senior MemberPosts: 1,144Gear list
Re: FE 24-70mm F4 OSS Here Today .. Gone Today!
In reply to darkdirtydwarf, 6 months ago

darkdirtydwarf wrote:

bigley Ling wrote:

Wow, that is a nice shot from the 18-200.

Thanks!

I get excellent results from my 18-200 original silver edition at 200mm as well.

Yes, that's the same I have! I think I must have a good copy, cause I'm really happy with it at all focal lengths and haven't had any issue so far. Pity the A7 can only take 10MPs images in crop mode, cause on the A7 the handling is really good with this lens.

To improve the ergonomics when using the 18-200mm lens on the Nex 5 series camera, I attached a 3rd party vertical grip made by "own user". It seems pretty solid, and have found it helps alot when mounting full frame legacy glass, as well as the largish 18-200 lens.

Awesome! I didn't know about it! Thanks a lot!

I just found it for a ridiculous cheap price (the grey version, looks nasty, but it's half the price of the black one...). I'm gonna order one

Good luck, I personally prefer it in black as my nex 5r is black ;), but hey if the price is good, cannot complain.

Here is my 5r with vertical grip and Canon 50mm f1.2L mounted via Speed Booster.

stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 3,592Gear list
Re: Not that expensive...
In reply to Stu 5, 6 months ago

Stu 5 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Stu 5 wrote:

Why on earth were you shooting at those ISO's when you did not need to? The quality loss due to that is noticeable.

As for the sharpness you do not need to view at 100% to see the issue. It is noticeable and means for some types of photography where the corners are important the lens is unusable as a lot of clients would reject the work or just not bother to use you in the future. If this lens had Sony written on the front and cheaper then it would be acceptable but not at this price or with Zeiss as a brand name on it.

Geez, come on. Have you compared prices? This sits in that mid range price-wise with the Canon 24-70 and it performs better.

So no, this ISN'T priced like a premium zoom. And if you start looking around, you'll wonder why the Canon 24-70 2.8 is going for another $1000. Yes, it's great, but you pay a lot for that and the performance is just acceptable in the corners.

Also, I've actually seen some great results in the corners for this lens, I'm thinking most people don't know A) How to shoot for sharp corners or B) have never owned a zoom. Otherwise, they would realize what to expect.

Well I have shot with zoom lenses from a lot of camera brands professionally and retouched files from various others brands professionally and there is no question this lens is overpriced. I have seen worse but they were cheaper lenses. This lens has a lot of issues for the money and really

Like what? And have you seen any good images posted with it yet? I have and I'm pretty impressed. They certainly match it's direct competition in Canon.

should not be being marketed under the Zeiss brand. The centre is good and the coating is good and at some focal lengths the overall performance is good but else where it is poor value for the

Like where and what? Coating? So what, what's a coating? What does it do? How did it impact the images?

money. Not even talking about 100% viewing as the problems are noticeable much smaller than that. As yet Sony have not managed to show they can design a decent zoom lens for the A7's. Wait and see if the tele zoom performs when it comes out or if it takes another brand to come out with a decent zoom.

You haven't mentioned one parameter and how or why it's bad. I, like you, have only seen the images posted here, so you can only say from what you've seen here.

Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads