D700 - Where to go next?

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Dave George
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Must say thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this subject.

The more I think about it I really do believe that the Nikon line up is superb, the gap that we D700 owners "see" may not actually be as big an issue as we think, but nevertheless it is clear that no direct replacement exists for what was and still is an excellent bit of kit.

It's interesting to hear all of your thoughts on this subject, I might add that I am seeking a second body and not a new one because there are issues with the D700, it is great at everything - just that when looking to add a second body you ideally want something that matches it in most respects and improves where possible...seems that is the D4!

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T O Shooter
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Dave George wrote:

When looking to add a second body you ideally want something that matches it in most respects and improves where possible...seems that is the D4!

As I told you in the first reply in this thread. Took you 40 replies to get here, but you're here now. Beg, borrow, don't steal, but come up with the money and buy a D4.  Only real option

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pcm81
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Dave George wrote:

Must say thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this subject.

The more I think about it I really do believe that the Nikon line up is superb, the gap that we D700 owners "see" may not actually be as big an issue as we think, but nevertheless it is clear that no direct replacement exists for what was and still is an excellent bit of kit.

It's interesting to hear all of your thoughts on this subject, I might add that I am seeking a second body and not a new one because there are issues with the D700, it is great at everything - just that when looking to add a second body you ideally want something that matches it in most respects and improves where possible...seems that is the D4!

If you want a point and shoot that works better in low light than d700 than d4 is your only choice. If however you are willing to slow down and pay attention to your technique, nothing beats the IQ of d800. Unless you are already shooting "slow" with good technique, you will hate d800 for the first  weeks, but once you learn to "respect" d800 it will blow your mind.

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1. D800 is the first camera with resolution so high that it simply does not matter.
2. Most people who do not own/shoot d800 misunderstand it. Color depth and accuracy in addition to resolution is what makes d800 great. Resolution alone is over rated.

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larrywilson
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to T O Shooter, 8 months ago

Yes, low light shooting, enough pixels for wedding type images, excellent high iso qualities, quick changing settings because of the exterior buttons are some of the reasons why the d4 is the best camera for the job.  Another positive would be less post processing than the d800.  I have the d4 and can speak to its positives.  I hate to admit it, but T O Shooter is right.  Now,  T O Shooter don't let this go to your head ha ha!!!

Larry

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Dave George
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to T O Shooter, 8 months ago

T O Shooter wrote:

Dave George wrote:

When looking to add a second body you ideally want something that matches it in most respects and improves where possible...seems that is the D4!

As I told you in the first reply in this thread. Took you 40 replies to get here, but you're here now. Beg, borrow, don't steal, but come up with the money and buy a D4. Only real option

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I was listening in your first reply! Thanks though and I do think you are right.

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Dave George
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to pcm81, 8 months ago

pcm81 wrote:

Dave George wrote:

Must say thanks to everyone for your thoughts on this subject.

The more I think about it I really do believe that the Nikon line up is superb, the gap that we D700 owners "see" may not actually be as big an issue as we think, but nevertheless it is clear that no direct replacement exists for what was and still is an excellent bit of kit.

It's interesting to hear all of your thoughts on this subject, I might add that I am seeking a second body and not a new one because there are issues with the D700, it is great at everything - just that when looking to add a second body you ideally want something that matches it in most respects and improves where possible...seems that is the D4!

If you want a point and shoot that works better in low light than d700 than d4 is your only choice. If however you are willing to slow down and pay attention to your technique, nothing beats the IQ of d800. Unless you are already shooting "slow" with good technique, you will hate d800 for the first weeks, but once you learn to "respect" d800 it will blow your mind.

-- hide signature --

1. D800 is the first camera with resolution so high that it simply does not matter.
2. Most people who do not own/shoot d800 misunderstand it. Color depth and accuracy in addition to resolution is what makes d800 great. Resolution alone is over rated.

Hmm, I think we are far from talking "Point and shoot" with a D700 or D4, there are times I pay a lot of attention to shot discipline, others where I have to work much faster and rely on the camera to work in that environment, it's not a case of being unwilling, trust me.

I want to be drawn to the D800 so much but I really am on the fence where this camera is concerned. Money no object I would buy a D4 in a heartbeat, otherwise I'm unsure.

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larrywilson
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

I can tell you Dave that I rented a d800 for a week, shot a long lens with it for birds and to me it was just too touchy and slow for this type of shooting.  The d4 is not so touchy and it will melt in your hands, larger than the d800 but a lot more comfortable for me.  I'm not a professional, but shot a wedding 6 months ago in a dark church using mostly a Nikon 85mm f1.4d lens.  They did not want flash so I was stuck with using speeds of around an iso of 3200 to get sharp images.  Focus not a problem and what little noise there was processed out in post processing.

Larry

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PHXAZCRAIG
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Get the D800 - or D800e.

I was in the same boat, with a D700 for most shooting, and a D300 for wildlife.  Both with grips and big battery, so both did 8fps with almost identical handling.

Having come from D70s, then D200, then D300, I really like the D200/300/700/800 body style.   Can't go back to the D7100/D610 body.

My D700 with grip was really my poor-man's-D3.   Couldn't afford (or justify) the pro body.

I bought a D800e a year ago.  Haven't used the D300 since, and almost never touch the D700 either.   The slow frame rate bugs me sometimes, but nothing else about the camera does.   The dynamic range is a real asset over the D700, and the pixel density plus DR obsoleted the D300 for me.   The resolution is very addicting, even though the vast majority of my shots only get seen on a web page or a DVD slide show on TV.

You don't need any more skill to shoot the D800 than the D700 - if you downsize the prints to the same 12mp size of the D700, you cover up any bad shooting habits to the same level as visible with the D700.   On the other hand, you'll pixel peep, and you WILL see some flaws in shooting at times, plus focus misses, plus lens irregularities.   But that's overblown, to an extent, and really, who wouldn't improve their shooting technique when you see the results for yourself?

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yray
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Re: The OP's lenses would disagree with that...
In reply to bobn2, 8 months ago

bobn2 wrote:

yray wrote:

Well, if 'professional reviewers and users alike' say it, it can't be wrong. can it? On the other hand, it would be a bit strange if Nikon took the Multi CAM 3500 and did a worse job with it after four years, wouldn't it? Have you evr heard of expectation effect?

I'm sorry, Bob, but this is just wrong. If you know anything at all about software development,

As it happens, I do.

you should have no doubts whatsoever that a subsequent software release can indeed be much worse than the preceding one, and by improving one thing it is quite easy to break inadvertently something else.

That would be an incompetently designed and controlled software development.

We already know about incompetently designed and controlled hardware manufacture, why would you assume that their software engineering is necessarily up to snuff?

So, all these claims about "improved" AF should be taken with a big grain of salt until proven otherwise in practice. It is quite conceivable that the "improved" CAM3500 code branches out into some piece of functionality where the original CAM3500 code never went. We'll most certainly never know, and it is not a given that anyone at Nikon knows that either.

It seems very strange that Nikon would knowingly release a worse AF.

I didn't say knowingly, did I? I only said that buggy software is a fact of life, and it is probably fair to say that all software is buggy to some extent.

Smacks to me of clutching at straws on behalf of some D700 owners.

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Bob

I can't fathom where you get these arguments. You assume that all D700 owners ought to want a D800, and if they don't it is because they are in denial for the lack of funds. Personally, I could have bought D800 at any time if I wished to. But I don't really need a D800. The D700 does it for me most of the time, and when I need a D3s, I use one. For all that, I'm still in love with the ancient D300, and occasionally I still find very useful applications for my D200 too, even though I "moved" to FX a while back.

A lot of the discussions on these forums often take for granted two assumptions which are not necessarily self-evident. First, that moving from DX to FX is necessarily a progression, and, second, that moving from an older model to a newer one is necessarily a progression. I take an exception to both premises, not because I can't afford what I need but because I can't justify what I don't need.

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Holmes375
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Excellent response - I concur. n/t
In reply to yray, 8 months ago
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j_photo
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago
D600/610 - benefits of increased DR and low light but don't like the size of the D7000 body (I sold my D7000 because it felt too small for me compared to the 700) and have concerns of the AF system not being as good as the D700.

D800 - As above but the penalty here is the shot discipline required, does it really suit handheld wedding work?

DF - This really appeals because of the tremendous low light performance and less intimidating looks, (for weddings) it may also be an ideal travel camera with a prime allowing me to leave the D700 + grip at home!

Finally there is the D4 which I am sure would tick every box, I simply cannot justify the cost at this stage.

d

IMO:

D600/610: In this group, the only things it has got going for it are lower cost and U1/U2 user settings. On the other hand, controls don't match up with what you are used to.

D800: Shot discipline is not the issue. Amp glow at high iso is. Big files may or may not be a concern depending on your PP hardware. Controls match up well with d700. There will be times when this camera produces wonderful results.

DF: Stunning image quality and excellent low light performance. But quirky controls and no second card. If the camera is a full-time second body for shooting weddings, it's probably the wrong choice. But if it's meant to bring something new and different to your shooting, it could be just the ticket. More than any other in the group, you have to try it for yourself to know.

D4: Nothing to add here you don't already know.

My advice:  Rent the one(s) that interest you most and give them a workout. You are at the point where what matters to you isn't going to be found on a checklist. It's going to be what you learn putting the cameras through their paces.

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Zoron
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

easy D900....in the mean time keep on shooting.....

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fPrime
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Re: Poor D700 owners can't afford any better then????
In reply to T O Shooter, 8 months ago

T O Shooter wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

It seems very strange that Nikon would knowingly release a worse AF. Smacks to me of clutching at straws on behalf of some D700 owners.

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Bob

So I guess you're figuring sour grapes on behalf of D700 owners because that's all they can afford?? Well I happen to own a D4 and D800e, and I just picked up another D700. I place the D700 AF somewhere in between the 800 and the D4. And you certainly do not get the inconsistent focus that's been in the 800 series.

Agreed.  Your relative ranking of focusing consistency between these models is both fair and accurate, TO Shooter.

fPrime

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fPrime
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Re: The OP's lenses would disagree with that...
In reply to yray, 8 months ago

yray wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

yray wrote:

Well, if 'professional reviewers and users alike' say it, it can't be wrong. can it? On the other hand, it would be a bit strange if Nikon took the Multi CAM 3500 and did a worse job with it after four years, wouldn't it? Have you evr heard of expectation effect?

I'm sorry, Bob, but this is just wrong. If you know anything at all about software development,

As it happens, I do.

you should have no doubts whatsoever that a subsequent software release can indeed be much worse than the preceding one, and by improving one thing it is quite easy to break inadvertently something else.

That would be an incompetently designed and controlled software development.

We already know about incompetently designed and controlled hardware manufacture, why would you assume that their software engineering is necessarily up to snuff?

So, all these claims about "improved" AF should be taken with a big grain of salt until proven otherwise in practice. It is quite conceivable that the "improved" CAM3500 code branches out into some piece of functionality where the original CAM3500 code never went. We'll most certainly never know, and it is not a given that anyone at Nikon knows that either.

It seems very strange that Nikon would knowingly release a worse AF.

I didn't say knowingly, did I? I only said that buggy software is a fact of life, and it is probably fair to say that all software is buggy to some extent.

Smacks to me of clutching at straws on behalf of some D700 owners.

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Bob

I can't fathom where you get these arguments. You assume that all D700 owners ought to want a D800, and if they don't it is because they are in denial for the lack of funds. Personally, I could have bought D800 at any time if I wished to. But I don't really need a D800. The D700 does it for me most of the time, and when I need a D3s, I use one. For all that, I'm still in love with the ancient D300, and occasionally I still find very useful applications for my D200 too, even though I "moved" to FX a while back.

Indeed.  The color sensitivity of the D200's CCD is spectacular if you keep it at base ISO.  Some people assume that the increase in megapixel resolution via CMOS sensors hasn't come at any cost at all but IMHO the tradeoff has been a decline in color quality.  The only way to get that aspect back for the situations when you need/want it is to buy an older camera which paradoxically makes it the better camera at least for the time it's being used.

A lot of the discussions on these forums often take for granted two assumptions which are not necessarily self-evident. First, that moving from DX to FX is necessarily a progression, and, second, that moving from an older model to a newer one is necessarily a progression. I take an exception to both premises, not because I can't afford what I need but because I can't justify what I don't need.

And it's not just need.  In general newer is better is never a guarantee and even when it is it's even rarer that it's across the board.

fPrime

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kormendi_adam
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Unless you need the built-in flash...
In reply to T O Shooter, 8 months ago

...to trigger your off-camera flash wirelessly. In that case the D4 is not an ideal choice.

If I wanted to replace my D700 I think I'd go with a D800. That is the one closest to the D700 in terms of handling and features. If you don't need the extra pixels just crop them off

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winter1
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to diverroy, 8 months ago

diverroy wrote:

If you find the D610 feels a little small to you why not buy the grip for it

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Diverroy

Agree with Diverroy, adding a grip makes all the difference re ergonomics, especially when using larger Lens.  Much more balanced.

cheers, Mark

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MayaTlab0
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Dave George wrote:

True enough the D700 isn'y quiet, but at those quiet moments you pick your shots carefully and only ever in single shot mode I think we as photographers notice it more than anyone else!

I remember having developed a technique to shoot flamenco concerts / shows, I used to trigger the D700's shutter in rhythm with the music so that it would coincide with claps and taps, which isn't exactly the easiest of things to do with polyrythmic music. Thank God I never had to shoot classical spectral music, I'd have been totally lost (and probably bored).

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StillLearning
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Dave George wrote:

True enough the D700 isn'y quiet, but at those quiet moments you pick your shots carefully and only ever in single shot mode I think we as photographers notice it more than anyone else!

Waiting is an option, but switching systems isn't something I would consider, overall I think Nikon is the better choice of lenses and sensor ability right now.

Try shooting in church venue.  Talk about feeling like everyone is looking your way when you take a shot.  That's why I am considering a D610 after it's been out a while.

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JWReagan
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Re: D700 - David I have exactly the same problem
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

I was initially concerned about low light focusing when I got my D600. I really wanted a D700 but couldn't find one locally for the right price and shutter count so I ended up with a D600.

I have used the D600 for concerts without much autofocus issue. I have had some minor focus hunting during rapidly changing lighting situations but this was in really low light where you have to under expose to get 1/125th at ISO 6400 or higher.

I think the main issue you would have with using a D600/D610 would be the button layout/handling. Unless you really want something lighter or similar sized to your D700 I think the D3s would be the better option. You could swap batteries with your D700 if you use the grip and the control layout makes it easy to go back and forth.

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leopardskin
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Re: D700 - Where to go next?
In reply to Dave George, 8 months ago

Honestly: Leica M9 with 1 small lens. Same milestone camera as D700 (superb product without a need for replacement). Operationally M9 is very different (I am not saying better or worst) + it delivers very different files in rendering and that's the point = options and possibilities. Just for your consideration.

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