A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40

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PVCdroid
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

This "m43 crusader" owns, A7r, RX1, Nex-7, Nex-5N, 2 X RX100's...lol...

One EM1, and a Panasonic G3....

That makes one person in this thread a liar at minimum...lol...

For what purpose do you own all these cameras? As I said, there is a bad case of GAS going on here. And, you do frequently throw comparisons up between MFT and Sony equipment usually with some slant towards your MFT looking for reactions. How is that being a liar?

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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

My advice would be to sell the Oly kit and put the money forwards some post processing lessons

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Cane
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

viking79 wrote:

nyoneway wrote:

The Olympus is pretty impressive, sharp throughout the entire image.

I was just thinking the olympus looked oversharpened and noisy throughout the range without that much detail

Eric

Didn't use any shaerpening on the Oly, only clarity at 24%...biggest difference I see is the rendition of the clouds which is important to me, both the Sony's rendered the clouds details and sky color better...

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bigley Ling
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

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excellent size comparison. It clearly shows the smallest iit here is stil the N7 setup, with the A7(r) having a body only slightly larger  than n7 but the lens is really quite large compared to the body. The E-M1 has the largest body and grip while having a moderately large lens. I think in terms of balance and looks the E-M1 looks the best and looks more ergonomic, while the Sonys am for a high end portable travel solution.

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José B
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Now I know why there's no Zeiss 24-105/4 OSS FE
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

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.....it would have been too big!!! Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

José

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KwhyChang
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

Interesting post.

Why does the µ4/3 shot somehow appear more detailed?

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Dave

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to Cane, 4 months ago

Cane wrote:

viking79 wrote:

nyoneway wrote:

The Olympus is pretty impressive, sharp throughout the entire image.

I was just thinking the olympus looked oversharpened and noisy throughout the range without that much detail

Eric

Didn't use any shaerpening on the Oly, only clarity at 24%...biggest difference I see is the rendition of the clouds which is important to me, both the Sony's rendered the clouds details and sky color better...

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Why didn't you just leave them alone?

I'll post originals as soon as I get my desktop back, it's in repair and recover mode right now...

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to PVCdroid, 4 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

This "m43 crusader" owns, A7r, RX1, Nex-7, Nex-5N, 2 X RX100's...lol...

One EM1, and a Panasonic G3....

That makes one person in this thread a liar at minimum...lol...

For what purpose do you own all these cameras? As I said, there is a bad case of GAS going on here. And, you do frequently throw comparisons up between MFT and Sony equipment usually with some slant towards your MFT looking for reactions. How is that being a liar?

Some folks spend $50,000 on hunting and fishing accessories, I like photography, and capturing shots, and I use a lot of photography at work to cover certain jobs, equipment, and issues or failures...some of the wells I work on are $70,000,000 USD and photography is essential to covering many of the challenges and equipment utilized...

I am not even close to a $30,000 Bass Boat into photography, and photography equipment holds it's value very well...

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PVCdroid
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

This "m43 crusader" owns, A7r, RX1, Nex-7, Nex-5N, 2 X RX100's...lol...

One EM1, and a Panasonic G3....

That makes one person in this thread a liar at minimum...lol...

For what purpose do you own all these cameras? As I said, there is a bad case of GAS going on here. And, you do frequently throw comparisons up between MFT and Sony equipment usually with some slant towards your MFT looking for reactions. How is that being a liar?

Some folks spend $50,000 on hunting and fishing accessories, I like photography, and capturing shots, and I use a lot of photography at work to cover certain jobs, equipment, and issues or failures...some of the wells I work on are $70,000,000 USD and photography is essential to covering many of the challenges and equipment utilized...

I am not even close to a $30,000 Bass Boat into photography, and photography equipment holds it's value very well...

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I will not only buy one but two no questions asked...

Fair enough....

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LTZ470
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LWS2013, 4 months ago

LWS2013 wrote:

My advice would be to sell the Oly kit and put the money forwards some post processing lessons

Didn't ask for it now did I?…lol…At over 1,000,000 views and counting my PP must work for a few folks…

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Try comparing like sizes
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

nyoneway wrote:

This comparison is about lens not sensors. If you look at the Oly corner, it's much sharper than the Sony Zeiss.

It's amazing how a smaller image can trick us into thinking it's sharper.
I tried it both ways: 1. upsize the EM1 image so the scale was the same as the NEX-7 image. 2) downsize the NEX image to the same as the EM1 image. In both comparisons, there's no question the NEX-7 image is more detailed and you can get significantly better sharpness out of it. This applies across the frame.

I have to say the Oly image is a bit ratty-looking for a base iso image. The NEX7 image is smooth and still looks smooth after sharpening it similarly to the Oly. Perhaps it's being crippled by poor processing?

Bart

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All jpegs, PP lightly...no the 16mp m43 sensor will never quite stay up with the APS-C and FF sensors, but it is surprisingly closer than most folks think or want to admit...just means that it is good enough for many situations, but I have found it is better for nature and close ups...the new Panny 42.5 f/1.2 is sharp wide open...very nice lens in m43 favor with OIS and EM1 with IBIS, the IBIS is actually better than the OIS...

I'm aware of the good reputation of many of the m43 lenses which is why I would've thought these images would be closer in quality considering the prices are similar.  I don't think anybody is afraid to admit that the two systems have similar quality when you spend similar amounts of money.

Here's what I'm talking about.  I'm not saying Oly image is "bad" per se--it's just noticeably worse than the NEX-7 image.  You can do this comparison anywhere in the frame and the NEX-7 comes out clearly on top.

Oly on left, Sony on right

Bart

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GaryW
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:...

I am not even close to a $30,000 Bass Boat into photography, and photography equipment holds it's value very well...

I agree, it's your spending money -- spend it how you want!  Boating is really expensive.. And other hobbies can be as well.

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Gary W.

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David Kieltyka
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Owning both the Zeiss & the Oly...
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

...and having processed RAW images taken with both lenses—the Zeiss on an A7r, the Oly on various m43 cameras but mainly the E-M1—I'd simply say this: the Zeiss is a good lens for its coverage range but the Oly is the best lens in that same range I've ever owned or used. It's the kind of lens you buy a camera to use with.

-Dave-

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LTZ470
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Re: Try comparing like sizes
In reply to Bart Hickman, 4 months ago

Bart Hickman wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

nyoneway wrote:

This comparison is about lens not sensors. If you look at the Oly corner, it's much sharper than the Sony Zeiss.

It's amazing how a smaller image can trick us into thinking it's sharper.
I tried it both ways: 1. upsize the EM1 image so the scale was the same as the NEX-7 image. 2) downsize the NEX image to the same as the EM1 image. In both comparisons, there's no question the NEX-7 image is more detailed and you can get significantly better sharpness out of it. This applies across the frame.

I have to say the Oly image is a bit ratty-looking for a base iso image. The NEX7 image is smooth and still looks smooth after sharpening it similarly to the Oly. Perhaps it's being crippled by poor processing?

Bart

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All jpegs, PP lightly...no the 16mp m43 sensor will never quite stay up with the APS-C and FF sensors, but it is surprisingly closer than most folks think or want to admit...just means that it is good enough for many situations, but I have found it is better for nature and close ups...the new Panny 42.5 f/1.2 is sharp wide open...very nice lens in m43 favor with OIS and EM1 with IBIS, the IBIS is actually better than the OIS...

I'm aware of the good reputation of many of the m43 lenses which is why I would've thought these images would be closer in quality considering the prices are similar. I don't think anybody is afraid to admit that the two systems have similar quality when you spend similar amounts of money.

Here's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying Oly image is "bad" per se--it's just noticeably worse than the NEX-7 image. You can do this comparison anywhere in the frame and the NEX-7 comes out clearly on top.

Oly on left, Sony on right

Bart

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Two different sizes of photos Bart, unless you down size the N-7 or upsize the Oly...so not really comparable unless side x side at 100% both photos...

These are subjective as well, much more detail in the Oly in the grass...and on both sides of the photo the Oly out performs easily...

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LTZ470
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Re: Owning both the Zeiss & the Oly...
In reply to David Kieltyka, 4 months ago

David Kieltyka wrote:

...and having processed RAW images taken with both lenses—the Zeiss on an A7r, the Oly on various m43 cameras but mainly the E-M1—I'd simply say this: the Zeiss is a good lens for its coverage range but the Oly is the best lens in that same range I've ever owned or used. It's the kind of lens you buy a camera to use with.

-Dave-

After using one for a month, I have to agree fully David, it's that good and can close focus as good as any lens I have ever used not being a macro lens...

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narddogg81
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

why do they all look terrible?

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Maybe your cameras are defective... all of them ..?
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

In another thread you tried to say that a superzoom gives better IQ than NEX-7..

I think you have something against NEX-7... and NEX-7 has something against you... if I look at the three photos I could think all three cameras have something against you... I can not find something well focused in any image. It is just what I see.. or what I don't see.

Here are 2 shots, with NEX-7 and SEL18200, at 18mm, these are not tests, but normal shots, I tried to find something similar with your test photos as distances, detail, FOV.

If you shoot with NEX-7 and show me less detailed photos I have to think there is something wrong with your camera...

NEX-7 SEL18200 @ 18mm - width reduced to 5000px for dpreviw galleries

NEX-7 SEL18200 @ 18mm - width reduced to 5000px for dpreviw galleries

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JunzInc
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

JunzInc wrote:

Hi,

I am interested in knowing more about your unbiased opinions on the SEL 16-70 especially compared to the 12-40 from Olympus which you also own? Are they comparable except for may be the far corners of the image? I also wanted to know what you felt about the handling of the SEL16-70 on the NEX7?

I currently have a NEX5N and was thinking about getting the SEL1670 now and then later upgrading my camera to the A6000 when that becomes available.

Thanks in advance,

Regards

JM

To be honest the 16-70 is an awesome sized well thought out zoom...it will work better on the 16mp sensors with less corner issues I think....I need to try it on the Nex-5N...I think it is WAY more than sufficient for the Nex-5N and perfect for it as well...

but the Nex-7 and the 16-70 are a great match up...it did not get the best light in these shots and can do much better except for sides and corners...it looks as if there is some color shift on the right hand side of the Nex-7 shot and that is the 24mp sensor at work...

For a Nex-5N I don't honestly think you could do any better than the SEL16-70 as far as zooms go...

EM1 and 12-40 are also awesome, but much larger and heavier, just the opposite of what folks that use Nex cameras are looking far...

The EM1 and 12-40 are even large for my liking, but they perform so well together it is a joy to shoot...only if they were a bit smaller package...

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Thank you for taking the time to respond. if it is not too much, is it possible for you to develop from raw applying optimal settings for both camera's, similar landscape images from SEL1670 on N7 and 12-40 from EM1. As you said the 12-40 on the EM1 is probably the better lens but i just would like to have an idea how much better it really is. I was keeping an eye out at the EM1+12-40 as well but unless it is so exceptionally better than the SEL1670 ZA, I want to stay with the NEX itself as I have really grown used to it, got quite a few other lenses and hopefully the A6000 can address any focus hunting that I gradually get with the NEX5N.

Thanks again in advance.

Regards, JM

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Jefenator
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Re: A7r 24-70 vs Nex-7 16-70 vs EM1 12-40
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

The JPEG quality seems to mangle a lot of the detail at 100%.

To really get a good A/B comparison, it's nice to have the lighting conditions be absolutely identical between shots. I know all too well this is tough to do, outdoors - particularly when the cloud cover comes & goes.

From this I am getting that the 12-40 is indeed quite a lens. It looks as though both Zeiss zooms may not be providing the greatest performance in the corners. (Focus technique & aperture settings might also be a factor.) The NEX-7 might be the best IQ per physical volume.

My own experimentation - using prime lenses, focusing manually and choosing the best from a range of aperture settings - has consistently and repeatedly shown a clear IQ advantage for the larger format.

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Try comparing like sizes
In reply to LTZ470, 4 months ago

LTZ470 wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

LTZ470 wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

nyoneway wrote:

This comparison is about lens not sensors. If you look at the Oly corner, it's much sharper than the Sony Zeiss.

It's amazing how a smaller image can trick us into thinking it's sharper.
I tried it both ways: 1. upsize the EM1 image so the scale was the same as the NEX-7 image. 2) downsize the NEX image to the same as the EM1 image. In both comparisons, there's no question the NEX-7 image is more detailed and you can get significantly better sharpness out of it. This applies across the frame.

I have to say the Oly image is a bit ratty-looking for a base iso image. The NEX7 image is smooth and still looks smooth after sharpening it similarly to the Oly. Perhaps it's being crippled by poor processing?

Bart

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All jpegs, PP lightly...no the 16mp m43 sensor will never quite stay up with the APS-C and FF sensors, but it is surprisingly closer than most folks think or want to admit...just means that it is good enough for many situations, but I have found it is better for nature and close ups...the new Panny 42.5 f/1.2 is sharp wide open...very nice lens in m43 favor with OIS and EM1 with IBIS, the IBIS is actually better than the OIS...

I'm aware of the good reputation of many of the m43 lenses which is why I would've thought these images would be closer in quality considering the prices are similar. I don't think anybody is afraid to admit that the two systems have similar quality when you spend similar amounts of money.

Here's what I'm talking about. I'm not saying Oly image is "bad" per se--it's just noticeably worse than the NEX-7 image. You can do this comparison anywhere in the frame and the NEX-7 comes out clearly on top.

Oly on left, Sony on right

Bart

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Two different sizes of photos Bart, unless you down size the N-7 or upsize the Oly...so not really comparable unless side x side at 100% both photos...

These are subjective as well, much more detail in the Oly in the grass...and on both sides of the photo the Oly out performs easily...

As I said, and as you can see, I scaled them to the same magnification to enable comparison. In this case I upscaled the Oly because that makes the difference easier to see.

Wow--Amazing how we see it differently. The tree, grass, everything are all mushy on the Oly image (relatively speaking). I can almost count every twig in that NEX shot.

I think you're being fooled by the processing of the Oly image which is sort of a large radius USM.  But, hey, whatever.

Bart

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