Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M

Started 4 months ago | Discussions
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
4 months ago

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

I love the IQ of my M, I am amazed at my M with my 135 f2 lens absolutely sick...

I WANT MORE!! I MAY WAIT!!

BUT I AM NOT BUYING ANYMORE GEAR FOR FULL SIZE DSLRs..

UNTIL THEN i will use my M as it exists,

BUT BE WARNED!!!!! I often find myself grabbing my new Leica C P&S..beasue of its IQ and reach...

PLEASE WAKE UP YOU CAN MAKE THE M VIABLE in the USA......

mp

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Canon EOS 10D Canon EOS 30D Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark III
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
SkipJG
Forum MemberPosts: 54Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

Well said and I agree. I've had the DSLRs (Three times!) and I don't want to go back to that size.  I want something small that is capable of so much more than my iPhone.  I love my M but I want more (namely M-mount lenses).  Others out there are offering more and soon they will have a system hard to beat.  Fuji is building a nice family of lenses and is committed to making more over the next several years.  If Canon waits until it is evident that mirrorless is the way to go, they will miss the many sales they could have had.  I'm tired of GAS and buying the next best thing that comes out.  Canon could do more with the M with just firmware (As shown by Magic Lantern), something that Fuji has done and recently committed to continuing to do.  Outside of firmware, Canon needs to get onto the wifi bandwagon in a big way and I don't mean an easy way to just transfer pictures to a phone or tablet (yawn).  I mean a way to control cameras with a wifi remote.  Fuji is doing it with the XT-1 and Olympus is doing it with the E-M10.  This will get big sooner rather than later.

I love Canon and I love their cameras.  But they kind of remind me of Blackberry back when Android and iOS were just getting started.  Blackberry continued to do their thing because they were selling so many of their devices until they weren't.  And then once the press and social media turned on them, the momentum was so strong they could not recover, even with some good products that were put out.  I know Cameras don't get the amount of coverage that a smartphone will just from the difference in scale of customer numbers.  But I think the analogy is correct.

The thing about the M is that while it is a mirrorless camera, it is an APS-C sensor sized mirrorless camera, not a 1" sensor like the Nikon 1 or a micro four thirds size (although as sensor technology improves these are getting very, very good).  With an APS-C size, the pictures are amazing and coupled with the three lenses there are now,very good things can happen. Canon needs to emphasize the sensor size inside of this small body.  Canon needs to break the inertia of their small changes philosophy (M2) while there is still time to do so.  If they did, I feel they could dominate.

 SkipJG's gear list:SkipJG's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS M Canon EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM Canon EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
justmeMN
Senior MemberPosts: 1,399
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

BUT I AM NOT BUYING ANYMORE GEAR FOR FULL SIZE DSLRs..

Then buy a small-DSLR, the Canon SL1/100D. If memory serves, it has the same sensor as the EOS M2, which isn't available in the USA.

Canon is in the business of making a profit. All brands of mirrorless cameras are selling poorly in both North America and Europe, and the USA is where mirrorless cameras come do die and be dumped at deep discounts.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Photato
Senior MemberPosts: 1,792Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to SkipJG, 4 months ago

SkipJG wrote:

Well said and I agree. I've had the DSLRs (Three times!) and I don't want to go back to that size. I want something small that is capable of so much more than my iPhone.

I find myself reaching more often for my iPod (image quality isn't everything) because I CAN DO MORE and is fun!

If Canon is wondering why the decline in sales, that is one!

I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up with a Samsung Android Mirrorless or a Sony A6000 that support Apps, even though lenses are more expensive.

I don't need stupid 'Art filters' or Social media features. But I miss things like Panorama Assist of older Canon cameras. With the M I can't even save a 'buffer image' to RAW like my 10 year old Canon Pro1 does, etc, etc.

I like the M but is so crippled in features....

 Photato's gear list:Photato's gear list
Canon ELPH 500 HS Canon EOS M Apple iPad Mini +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bauerman
Senior MemberPosts: 2,579
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

mpressed wrote:

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

I love the IQ of my M, I am amazed at my M with my 135 f2 lens absolutely sick...

I WANT MORE!! I MAY WAIT!!

BUT I AM NOT BUYING ANYMORE GEAR FOR FULL SIZE DSLRs..

UNTIL THEN i will use my M as it exists,

I agree with this sentiment expressed above.  I just sold my 40D and replaced it with an EOS-M. Did not sell one of the 5 EF-mount lenses I had though as I plan on getting the EF-m to EF adapter.

With that being said - I love the two EF-M lenses that I have - the 18-55 and the 22 prime - and would surely hope that Canon plans on expanding this lineup in the near term.   Simply the build and performance of these EF-M lenses is fantastic.

-- hide signature --

bauerman

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
67gtonr
Regular MemberPosts: 385Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to SkipJG, 4 months ago

SkipJG wrote:

Well said and I agree. I've had the DSLRs (Three times!) and I don't want to go back to that size. I want something small that is capable of so much more than my iPhone. I love my M but I want more (namely M-mount lenses). Others out there are offering more and soon they will have a system hard to beat. Fuji is building a nice family of lenses and is committed to making more over the next several years. If Canon waits until it is evident that mirrorless is the way to go, they will miss the many sales they could have had. I'm tired of GAS and buying the next best thing that comes out. Canon could do more with the M with just firmware (As shown by Magic Lantern), something that Fuji has done and recently committed to continuing to do. Outside of firmware, Canon needs to get onto the wifi bandwagon in a big way and I don't mean an easy way to just transfer pictures to a phone or tablet (yawn). I mean a way to control cameras with a wifi remote. Fuji is doing it with the XT-1 and Olympus is doing it with the E-M10. This will get big sooner rather than later.

I love Canon and I love their cameras. But they kind of remind me of Blackberry back when Android and iOS were just getting started. Blackberry continued to do their thing because they were selling so many of their devices until they weren't. And then once the press and social media turned on them, the momentum was so strong they could not recover, even with some good products that were put out. I know Cameras don't get the amount of coverage that a smartphone will just from the difference in scale of customer numbers. But I think the analogy is correct.

The thing about the M is that while it is a mirrorless camera, it is an APS-C sensor sized mirrorless camera, not a 1" sensor like the Nikon 1 or a micro four thirds size (although as sensor technology improves these are getting very, very good). With an APS-C size, the pictures are amazing and coupled with the three lenses there are now,very good things can happen. Canon needs to emphasize the sensor size inside of this small body. Canon needs to break the inertia of their small changes philosophy (M2) while there is still time to do so. If they did, I feel they could dominate.

As far as the WiFi goes Canon is already doing what you ask for with the EOS M2.

 67gtonr's gear list:67gtonr's gear list
Canon EOS M Canon EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM Canon EF-M 22mm f/2 STM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rrccad
Senior MemberPosts: 2,214Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

but you are still in large scale heavy digital photography.  if you are truly wanting out of it micro 4/3's or nikon 1 is the way to go.

 rrccad's gear list:rrccad's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS M
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
coso dp
Forum MemberPosts: 84Gear list
Like?
any way to send canon feedback?
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

Sorry, just picking up this thread (I agree with you OP, nonetheless), is there any known e-mail or something to let Canon get our feedback? We know they won't really listen and won't upgrade the firmwares on our Canons (damn it I just want to turn off exposure preview in my M), but you never know...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Veducci
Contributing MemberPosts: 762Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to rrccad, 4 months ago

rrccad wrote:

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

but you are still in large scale heavy digital photography. if you are truly wanting out of it micro 4/3's or nikon 1 is the way to go.

Smaller can be too limiting.

The Nikon 1" sensor is far too noisy at high ISO`s.  Might as well stick with something like the LX7 if small is the priority.

The APSC sensor in the M is a big jump up in IQ and the lenses are just about the right size to effect a reasonable compromise. Pretty much the same for 4/3rds.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ovlov
Senior MemberPosts: 1,176
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to 67gtonr, 4 months ago

67gtonr wrote:

SkipJG wrote:

Well said and I agree. I've had the DSLRs (Three times!) and I don't want to go back to that size. I want something small that is capable of so much more than my iPhone. I love my M but I want more (namely M-mount lenses). Others out there are offering more and soon they will have a system hard to beat. Fuji is building a nice family of lenses and is committed to making more over the next several years. If Canon waits until it is evident that mirrorless is the way to go, they will miss the many sales they could have had. I'm tired of GAS and buying the next best thing that comes out. Canon could do more with the M with just firmware (As shown by Magic Lantern), something that Fuji has done and recently committed to continuing to do. Outside of firmware, Canon needs to get onto the wifi bandwagon in a big way and I don't mean an easy way to just transfer pictures to a phone or tablet (yawn). I mean a way to control cameras with a wifi remote. Fuji is doing it with the XT-1 and Olympus is doing it with the E-M10. This will get big sooner rather than later.

I love Canon and I love their cameras. But they kind of remind me of Blackberry back when Android and iOS were just getting started. Blackberry continued to do their thing because they were selling so many of their devices until they weren't. And then once the press and social media turned on them, the momentum was so strong they could not recover, even with some good products that were put out. I know Cameras don't get the amount of coverage that a smartphone will just from the difference in scale of customer numbers. But I think the analogy is correct.

The thing about the M is that while it is a mirrorless camera, it is an APS-C sensor sized mirrorless camera, not a 1" sensor like the Nikon 1 or a micro four thirds size (although as sensor technology improves these are getting very, very good). With an APS-C size, the pictures are amazing and coupled with the three lenses there are now,very good things can happen. Canon needs to emphasize the sensor size inside of this small body. Canon needs to break the inertia of their small changes philosophy (M2) while there is still time to do so. If they did, I feel they could dominate.

As far as the WiFi goes Canon is already doing what you ask for with the EOS M2.

It's also in the 6D, and is a great feature.  I hope that it eventually shows up in all their cameras.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to SkipJG, 4 months ago

agree especially on the wifi point.. i am often using my leica c and the wifi connectivity is amazing.. remembers multiple wifi connections inclusive of complicated password protected office wifi… saves favorite connection for 1 second connection and the while the file transfer software is awesome the camera control is even better…. all ALL features are controllable from my iPhone, inclusive of manual operations…..

mp

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to justmeMN, 4 months ago

justmeMN wrote:

BUT I AM NOT BUYING ANYMORE GEAR FOR FULL SIZE DSLRs..

Then buy a small-DSLR, the Canon SL1/100D. If memory serves, it has the same sensor as the EOS M2, which isn't available in the USA.

Canon is in the business of making a profit. All brands of mirrorless cameras are selling poorly in both North America and Europe, and the USA is where mirrorless cameras come do die and be dumped at deep discounts.

nonsensical answer, sly still to large and limited, canon has had many lost leaders as they pioneered territory in the isa.. before the 10D proved successful they lost money on the d30 and d60 dslrs and the original 1d was far from profitable for them but they controlled the field with those cameras...

Consumer/prosumer level dslrs for canon have never had strong followings until third gens

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to rrccad, 4 months ago

rrccad wrote:

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

but you are still in large scale heavy digital photography. if you are truly wanting out of it micro 4/3's or nikon 1 is the way to go.

personally disagree that the M is large scale photography...

M sensor blows the 4/3 and 1" sensors away at least in my and many others opinions...

Marketing the size and quality of the M sensor is where canon failed to capture more prosumers….

mp

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to Veducci, 4 months ago

Veducci wrote:

rrccad wrote:

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

but you are still in large scale heavy digital photography. if you are truly wanting out of it micro 4/3's or nikon 1 is the way to go.

Smaller can be too limiting.

The Nikon 1" sensor is far too noisy at high ISO`s. Might as well stick with something like the LX7 if small is the priority.

The APSC sensor in the M is a big jump up in IQ and the lenses are just about the right size to effect a reasonable compromise. Pretty much the same for 4/3rds.

AGREED 1000%

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: any way to send canon feedback?
In reply to coso dp, 4 months ago

coso dp wrote:

Sorry, just picking up this thread (I agree with you OP, nonetheless), is there any known e-mail or something to let Canon get our feedback? We know they won't really listen and won't upgrade the firmwares on our Canons (damn it I just want to turn off exposure preview in my M), but you never know...

I guess we could picket outside there Long Island NY headquarters…but doubt it would do much good… i actually have a few friends in upper management positions at canon ( business machines division) and they are all M shooters and feel the same way...

mp

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to SkipJG, 4 months ago

SkipJG wrote:

Well said and I agree. I've had the DSLRs (Three times!) and I don't want to go back to that size. I want something small that is capable of so much more than my iPhone. I love my M but I want more (namely M-mount lenses). Others out there are offering more and soon they will have a system hard to beat. Fuji is building a nice family of lenses and is committed to making more over the next several years. If Canon waits until it is evident that mirrorless is the way to go, they will miss the many sales they could have had. I'm tired of GAS and buying the next best thing that comes out. Canon could do more with the M with just firmware (As shown by Magic Lantern), something that Fuji has done and recently committed to continuing to do. Outside of firmware, Canon needs to get onto the wifi bandwagon in a big way and I don't mean an easy way to just transfer pictures to a phone or tablet (yawn). I mean a way to control cameras with a wifi remote. Fuji is doing it with the XT-1 and Olympus is doing it with the E-M10. This will get big sooner rather than later.

I love Canon and I love their cameras. But they kind of remind me of Blackberry back when Android and iOS were just getting started. Blackberry continued to do their thing because they were selling so many of their devices until they weren't. And then once the press and social media turned on them, the momentum was so strong they could not recover, even with some good products that were put out. I know Cameras don't get the amount of coverage that a smartphone will just from the difference in scale of customer numbers. But I think the analogy is correct.

The thing about the M is that while it is a mirrorless camera, it is an APS-C sensor sized mirrorless camera, not a 1" sensor like the Nikon 1 or a micro four thirds size (although as sensor technology improves these are getting very, very good). With an APS-C size, the pictures are amazing and coupled with the three lenses there are now,very good things can happen. Canon needs to emphasize the sensor size inside of this small body. Canon needs to break the inertia of their small changes philosophy (M2) while there is still time to do so. If they did, I feel they could dominate.

No doubt canon dropped the ball marketing the sensor as a primary selling point of their mirror less over so many other formats

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mpressed
Regular MemberPosts: 466Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to Photato, 4 months ago

Photato wrote:

SkipJG wrote:

Well said and I agree. I've had the DSLRs (Three times!) and I don't want to go back to that size. I want something small that is capable of so much more than my iPhone.

I find myself reaching more often for my iPod (image quality isn't everything) because I CAN DO MORE and is fun!

If Canon is wondering why the decline in sales, that is one!

I wouldn't be surprised if I ended up with a Samsung Android Mirrorless or a Sony A6000 that support Apps, even though lenses are more expensive.

I don't need stupid 'Art filters' or Social media features. But I miss things like Panorama Assist of older Canon cameras. With the M I can't even save a 'buffer image' to RAW like my 10 year old Canon Pro1 does, etc, etc.

I like the M but is so crippled in features....

i disagree it has many great features… User interface could be improved to access them better as some can be used as substitutes for more common dslr features… but it could of course use a few tweaks...

 mpressed's gear list:mpressed's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 40D Canon EOS M Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM +10 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
rrccad
Senior MemberPosts: 2,214Gear list
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

mpressed wrote:

rrccad wrote:

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

but you are still in large scale heavy digital photography. if you are truly wanting out of it micro 4/3's or nikon 1 is the way to go.

personally disagree that the M is large scale photography...

M sensor blows the 4/3 and 1" sensors away at least in my and many others opinions...

Marketing the size and quality of the M sensor is where canon failed to capture more prosumers….

mp

your kit is still dominated by large lenses, which makes the difference in body size and volume as a percentage of your total kit weight meaningless.

 rrccad's gear list:rrccad's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS M
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
T3
T3
Forum ProPosts: 17,654
Like?
Me too
In reply to mpressed, 4 months ago

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

I love the IQ of my M, I am amazed at my M with my 135 f2 lens absolutely sick...

I WANT MORE!! I MAY WAIT!!

BUT I AM NOT BUYING ANYMORE GEAR FOR FULL SIZE DSLRs..

UNTIL THEN i will use my M as it exists,

BUT BE WARNED!!!!! I often find myself grabbing my new Leica C P&S..beasue of its IQ and reach...

PLEASE WAKE UP YOU CAN MAKE THE M VIABLE in the USA......

mp

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to buy another DSLR.  I'll keep my current gear, but don't plan on making any future DSLR purchasing (bodies or lenses).  Been using Canon SLRs since the film days, then bought moved into Canon DSLRs with the 10D.  Been happily using their DSLRs ever since.  But no more.  All future purchases will be in mirrorless (bodies and lenses).  If Canon wants my mirrorless money, they'd better offer me something to purchase.  As of now, I use m4/3 and EOS M (EOS M body, 22 EF-F, 18-55 EF-M, 90EX, bought all together at once).  I also have the EOS-to-EOS M adapter.  Canon, get serious with EOS M!  Because I know I'm ready.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
T3
T3
Forum ProPosts: 17,654
Like?
Re: Dear Canon, I'm not buying anymore DSLR Gear get on with the M
In reply to rrccad, 4 months ago

rrccad wrote:

mpressed wrote:

Dear Canon,

Have been a canon shooter for 30 years, even though my mother worked for nikon in the 60s-80s.

Loved growing up canon loved my slurs, loved my first 10D, my 30D, 40D, 5DI and 5DIII.... Love ALL my canon lenses, L and non L glass!

But i am done with large scale heavy digital photography!

but you are still in large scale heavy digital photography. if you are truly wanting out of it micro 4/3's or nikon 1 is the way to go.

I use m4/3 and EOS M.  As far as sensor size goes, m4/3 would be the smallest I would ever go, especially if you plan on investing long-term in an ILC system.  Nikon's 1" sensor is just too small.  I think they really painted themselves into a corner with such a tiny sensor.  Such a small sensor is too limiting.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads