7D users, noise question...

Started Mar 1, 2014 | Discussions
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Fish Chris
Fish Chris Veteran Member • Posts: 4,987
7D users, noise question...

Say you find yourself with less light than you might prefer, but you "do" have, either a tripod, or something to seat your camera on....

So of course your options are to either just go with as long a shutter as you need, to get enough light, 'or' bump up your ISO.

Now of course I know, both longer exposures, as well as higher ISO's increase the tendency for noise, but how do you like to balance these things ^ with your 7D, for the most noise free shots possible ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, and speaking of noise..... I've read that many 7D users turn off the noise reduction feature in the camera, as (If I'm not mistaken) they prefer to do this themselves in PP ?

....so I was going through my menus, and saw that my noise reduction is already switched off.

What's your take on this ? Let the camera do it for you ? Do it yourself ? Oh, but if you think you can do a better job, you have to show me how also LOL

Much thanks,

Fish

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Midwest Forum Pro • Posts: 16,101
Re: 7D users, noise question...

Fish Chris wrote:

Say you find yourself with less light than you might prefer, but you "do" have, either a tripod, or something to seat your camera on....

So of course your options are to either just go with as long a shutter as you need, to get enough light, 'or' bump up your ISO.

Now of course I know, both longer exposures, as well as higher ISO's increase the tendency for noise, but how do you like to balance these things ^ with your 7D, for the most noise free shots possible ?

The higher ISO is a much bigger problem when it comes to increasing noise. On the other hand, having bought a 7D, I did so because I need and want a camera that is good for action shooting, so I seldom really expect to have the luxury of long exposures.

I'd go with the longest exposure that would work with my subject, but I would definitely prefer to PP noise out than to get photos with motion blur, which IMO ruins them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, and speaking of noise..... I've read that many 7D users turn off the noise reduction feature in the camera, as (If I'm not mistaken) they prefer to do this themselves in PP ?

....so I was going through my menus, and saw that my noise reduction is already switched off.

What's your take on this ? Let the camera do it for you ? Do it yourself ? Oh, but if you think you can do a better job, you have to show me how also LOL

I use very basic settings - NR low, saturation bumped one notch, etc. - nothing drastic - because generally I much prefer for my good shots to be PP'd instead of trying to get perfect shots SOOC.

MarshallG
MarshallG Veteran Member • Posts: 3,381
Re: 7D users, noise question...

When I shoot from a tripod, I also always bracket like crazy. If the light is decent, then I want ISO 100 and about f/8 for maximum sharpness. If there's motion, like car headlamps or water, I bracket shutter speeds for effect.

I think I'll go out tomorrow and shoot the Bay Bridge again.

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mailman88
mailman88 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,564
Re: I bump-up the ISO...
1

...not afraid to shoot 3200ISO to get the results I want from my 7D.

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Lanidrac Veteran Member • Posts: 7,544
Re: 7D users, noise question...

Fish Chris wrote:

Say you find yourself with less light than you might prefer, but you "do" have, either a tripod, or something to seat your camera on....

So of course your options are to either just go with as long a shutter as you need, to get enough light, 'or' bump up your ISO.

Now of course I know, both longer exposures, as well as higher ISO's increase the tendency for noise, but how do you like to balance these things ^ with your 7D, for the most noise free shots possible ?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, and speaking of noise..... I've read that many 7D users turn off the noise reduction feature in the camera, as (If I'm not mistaken) they prefer to do this themselves in PP ?

....so I was going through my menus, and saw that my noise reduction is already switched off.

What's your take on this ? Let the camera do it for you ? Do it yourself ? Oh, but if you think you can do a better job, you have to show me how also LOL

Much thanks,

Fish

My 2 cents... shoot at the lowest ISO possible for the scene and light (fast or slow objects), use a tripod whenever possible versus depending on IS/OS lens shake gimmickry, don't be afraid of manual mode, shoot raw, turn off most of Canon noise reduction especially long exposure, select the right metering and focal point mode for what your shooting, and store your fave shooting modes in the 3 options on the dial so you can change shooting modes quickly. Invest in a good noise reduction PShop plugin program too. Always experiment.

Lanidrac.

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Alastair Norcross Veteran Member • Posts: 5,501
Re: 7D users, noise question...
1

Depends on the subject and shooting conditions. If the subject isn't moving, or if motion blur might actually be desired (light trails from traffic, blurred moving water, etc.), and I have a tripod, I shoot with a low ISO and long exposure. If I need faster shutter speeds for the subject (e.g. to stop motion), I'm not afraid to use high ISO (3200, 6400). A lens with good IS is a compromise between these two situations. With my 24-105, I can shoot handheld at 24mm as low as 1/5 without camera shake. I shoot everything except sports in RAW, so the NR setting in camera isn't relevant. When I shoot sports, I have the NR set to low for the JPEGs. I find that's usually enough, all the way up to ISO 3200. If it isn't, I add a bit more NR in Lightroom. I find the NR in Lightroom is good enough that I never use a separate NR program (I have Noise Ninja and Topaz and Nik) anymore. Once you get the hang of processing your RAWs in Lightroom, you realize that all the people who complain about noise on the 7D simply don't know how to process their shots. Masked sharpening is very important. I always apply a mask of between 60 and 70 to my sharpening, which prevents sharpening of noise and OOF areas.

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olmail Senior Member • Posts: 1,347
Re: 7D users, noise question...

tripod or resting on my car door ( engine off) my first setting change is going to be shutter speed. if i can keep it pretty high i will go to a lower iso. i have default noise settings and seldom change in pp. iso 800 is a very normal setting for me and i don't hesitate to go with 1600.

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Fish Chris
Fish Chris OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,987
Re: 7D users, noise question...

Midwest wrote:

Fish Chris wrote:

Say you find yourself with less light than you might prefer, but you "do" have, either a tripod, or something to seat your camera on....

So of course your options are to either just go with as long a shutter as you need, to get enough light, 'or' bump up your ISO.

Now of course I know, both longer exposures, as well as higher ISO's increase the tendency for noise, but how do you like to balance these things ^ with your 7D, for the most noise free shots possible ?

The higher ISO is a much bigger problem when it comes to increasing noise. On the other hand, having bought a 7D, I did so because I need and want a camera that is good for action shooting, so I seldom really expect to have the luxury of long exposures.

I'd go with the longest exposure that would work with my subject, but I would definitely prefer to PP noise out than to get photos with motion blur, which IMO ruins them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, and speaking of noise..... I've read that many 7D users turn off the noise reduction feature in the camera, as (If I'm not mistaken) they prefer to do this themselves in PP ?

....so I was going through my menus, and saw that my noise reduction is already switched off.

What's your take on this ? Let the camera do it for you ? Do it yourself ? Oh, but if you think you can do a better job, you have to show me how also LOL

I use very basic settings - NR low, saturation bumped one notch, etc. - nothing drastic - because generally

Thank you MW

I much prefer for my good shots to be PP'd instead of trying to get perfect shots SOOC.

I agree. Obviously the best original shot, will likely produce the best finished product, but still, I don't know if I have ever seen a shot which could not be helped a little bit, straight OOC. At least, I've never taken one myself LOL

Peace,

Fish

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Fish Chris
Fish Chris OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,987
Re: 7D users, noise question...

MarshallG wrote:

When I shoot from a tripod, I also always bracket like crazy. If the light is decent, then I want ISO 100 and about f/8 for maximum sharpness. If there's motion, like car headlamps or water, I bracket shutter speeds for effect.

I think I'll go out tomorrow and shoot the Bay Bridge again.

Right on I plan to set up at least one of my presets, for bracketing, and after that, I could see myself taking 3 shots, for every one I do on a tripod

I'm thinking that if a person took it easy with HDR, they could probably make their shots just look better, with more detail in the shadows + less blow out, but still look very natural...... OR, they could go more extreme, and make the shot look like a drug trip Totally up to the artist, right ?

Peace,

Fish

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Fish Chris
Fish Chris OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,987
Re: I bump-up the ISO...

MM, I'm glad to hear you say this..... as after I made the OP, I almost starting feeling like maybe this question was too obvious, and that everybody would say, low ISO, longer shutter.... which obviously I will still do in most situations.....

Fish

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Fish Chris
Fish Chris OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,987
Much thanks to all of you
1

olmail wrote:

tripod or resting on my car door ( engine off) my first setting change is going to be shutter speed. if i can keep it pretty high i will go to a lower iso. i have default noise settings and seldom change in pp. iso 800 is a very normal setting for me and i don't hesitate to go with 1600.

Olmail, 800 and 1600 ISO is going to be crazy for me ! When for the last 4 years, ISO 400 on my T1i, caused SO much noise it was crazy, and 800 was usually just unusable !

Peace,

Fish

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Woodenfish Regular Member • Posts: 257
Re: 7D users, noise question...

Fish

I used to use a lot of exposure blending when I shot Olympus, but since moving to the 7D and using Lightroom, I find that it is not necessary.  The raw files from 7D allow you to bring up shadows very nicely, as long as the overall exposure is good.

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AmbleYonder Contributing Member • Posts: 805
what noise ?
1

native ISOs 160,320,640......=less noise

shoot to the right (ettr) loads or articles here and elsewhere on increasing dynamic range which also has the benefit that you don't get noise in the shadows.

use the histogram to push the exposure far to the right but without getting blinking highlights

liive-view is your real friend here with this method

drop the exposure in post to bring back the shadows

job done.

Sailor Blue
Sailor Blue Veteran Member • Posts: 9,165
Re: 7D users, noise question...

Fifty years ago we used use a special pushing developer to allow us to shoot Kodak Tri-X file, which had an ASA = 400, at ASA 2000.  We go film grain particles roughly the size of baseballs.

I have no problem what so ever with the noise I get with my 7D at ISO 3200 or even 6400.  Consider yourself blessed that you can even bother thinking about whether it is a bad thing or not.

Note:  Film speed in the US was originally rated in ASA.  Later it was changed to ISO but the numeric values were the same.

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Fish Chris
Fish Chris OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,987
Re: what noise ?

AmbleYonder wrote:

native ISOs 160,320,640......=less noise

shoot to the right (ettr) loads or articles here and elsewhere on increasing dynamic range which also has the benefit that you don't get noise in the shadows.

use the histogram to push the exposure far to the right but without getting blinking highlights

liive-view is your real friend here with this method

drop the exposure in post to bring back the shadows

job done.

This ^ just sounds so freaking cool ! I am SO anxious to start shooting some of these And I recently found theperfect place> Muir Woods and the DipSea trail above Stinson beach It's much like a rainforest, ferns and moss everywhere and fairly darkdown low, but areas of bright sky where it breaks through the 200ft Redwoods..

Oh hey, now I know this shot is not technically great, but I SO want to re-shoot this in HDR ! + to get to all of these areas is only about a 10 mile rt hike......vs. my last hike to the top of Mount Tamalpais, East Peak, which was about a 22 mile rt < Kicked my butt, but I did it

Thanks again Amble.

Fish

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Zee Char Forum Pro • Posts: 10,533
Re: 7D users, noise question...

With the 7D it las always best to get a good exposure and if you can expose to the right a bit in low light. The 7D sensor is light hungry. If you can't NR is your friend. I have great success with LR and/or ACR

12,800

Reduce noise by viewing @ 100%

Colour noise first. Move slider until the blotchiness goes away. Don't go any further as there is no gain and it will start to change hue.

Then luminance. Careful on amount because it reduces image sharpness.

Final results

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checkmate91 Regular Member • Posts: 100
Re: 7D users, noise question...

Excellent! Great case study of "look at the picture, not the pixels", thanks for sharing.

AmbleYonder Contributing Member • Posts: 805
Re: what noise ?

the method i outlined is perfect for you then because that is exactly the type of scenery i shoot too! .always use a tripod, live view for framing , zooming in for  precise focusing and checking DOF also using the timer to avoid vibration.

I used to do a fair amount of HDR but found less need for it now with shooting to the right ,also the histogram reads only the JPEG so there is still room to push that raw even further despite the highlight warning.

Atoche
Atoche Contributing Member • Posts: 669
Re: 7D users, noise question...

When I am not at base ISO, I usually ETTR to ensure adequate light... I do this both on my 5d and 7d.

So, to answer in the context of which you ask, I bump the ISO and ETTR...

I do turn off in camera noise reduction - but I don't think it has an effect on RAW files anyway.

$.02

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TTMartin
TTMartin Veteran Member • Posts: 7,304
Re: what noise ?

AmbleYonder wrote:

native ISOs 160,320,640......=less noise

The native ISOs are actually 100, 200, 400, etc.

160, 320, 640 are actually digital pulls from the next higher ISO. They have less noise because they provide an automatic 1/3 stop ETTR.

What you really want to avoid are the ISO 125, 250, 500 etc. as these are digital pushes from the next lower ISO. This digital push is written into the RAW file and impacts even RAW shooters.

shoot to the right (ettr) loads or articles here and elsewhere on increasing dynamic range which also has the benefit that you don't get noise in the shadows.

use the histogram to push the exposure far to the right but without getting blinking highlights

liive-view is your real friend here with this method

drop the exposure in post to bring back the shadows

job done.

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